I don't really understand why an M62 alone should give 250 hp. To push enough air for 250 hp thru the stock motor, the boost will have to be somewhere north of 20 psi. I think the TCs run in the low 20s to make 250 hp, and the SC will require even higher boost since the SC robs more mechanical power. So, what makes the M62 any better at pumping against a 20-some psi pressure delta than the M45? Granted, the M62 will need to spin only once for every 1.38 times the M45 has to spin for equivalent output, which puts the M45 beyond redline. Theoretically, then, the M62 *might* be able to pump the intake up to 20psi (reduction pulley would be needed) but I suspect the efficiency will be lousy, exit temps very high.

Hopefully I'm wrong about this, but something just doesn't seem right ...

 

Yes the car is completely stock other than the 17% pulley that remains on the blower (remember they are using the nose from the m45 on this 62). This will make the kit so much easier to be installed once marketed.

Dave has a number of programs on his laptop that he uses to monitor a/f ratio, injector pulses, etc.

I understand there are gaps in some details that I report to y'all, and I apologize for not being able to clear things up. I pass on what I hear from the developers but don't want to keep him on the phone too long and away from the project. When I talk to him later I'll ask if he has time to log on here and answer things better.

 

Considering your situation you're doing a much appreciated job of keeping people informed.

 

You don't necesarily need to create pressure (boost) to create power. The increased volume the M62 produces will help create the additional power. Sadly boost creates more heat than power gains. With the increased volume and efficency of the M62, the charge temps will be cooler and the same pressure level, creating more power. You don't need to run 20psi to get tons of power.

 

It's all about the compressor efficiency...

The M62 should be able to generate the required boost more efficiently (since it is able to move more air into the intake track per rev), and thus the intake charge will be cooler (since the supercharger is heating it less).

M45 Stats:
http://www.automotive.eaton.com/prod...argers/M45.asp

M62 Stats:
http://www.automotive.eaton.com/prod...argers/M62.asp

Since the M62 only has to rotate 3/4 as fast to move the same amount of air, the consumed power is either the same or lower (see charts), for example, at 10,000rpm supercharger speed and 10psi_Delta_P , the M45 and is consuming about 15hp to move ~210CFM of air. The M62 only has to spin at 7500rpm to achieve the same thing.

The M62 at 14,000rpm is moving 1.47 times more air (440/300 CFM) while only consuming 1.38 times the power (36hp/26hp). This sounds like a net gain to me...

Anyway, were all just speculating until the results are in... can't wait!

RM2k5

 

I know this is VERY early to be asking this, but price??? Or even, does anyone know the price of similar kits for the 62 for other cars?? Just looking for a ballpark.

 

the kit is being targeted from $3-3.5K

the flow of this SC is roughly 30% more than the 45

the hope is 200-210whp on a stock car.....no one is making that claim yet

the most exciting news is my car is moving to Greenville tomorrow for a month or so to be the R&D "jig"

these guys are pros and are going about it methodically and are really not saying a word..... the only real news is coming from us amateurs...... when they have it sorted I'm sure there will be a big official announcement....

hey if it makes 250whp on my car which is about 25-30 more than I have now and they move the torque curve up I'm happy anything after that is gravy

my statements about 300 whp come from the fact that 62s are used on cars that develop that much including the Miata..... hopes are high

 

wow a projected 200-210 whp on a stock S......that would be nice. Can't wait to see what the official numbers will be.

 

with this larger supercharger, will the supercharger whine be louder? on the fence between this and and a TC kit

 

Doubt it will be louder but it will certainly have a different pitch.

EDIT.

Different pitch at a given RPM. Does that work for everybody?

 

so the pitch depends on the drive ratio. The sound will have more to do with intake geometery and the like.

Matt

 

I am wondering about the low end torque..... that is where i want to see the increase..... any ideas Matt?

 

Ryan, no need to apologize. It's hard not to ask questions! I think we all appreciate your willingness act in the interim as a go-between...

[16 hours later due to a power outage!]

It hit over 111 degrees here in the canyon yesterday. With my MINI on jack stands, and my wife gone in the other car, I was in survival mode trying to keep cool. Making matters worse is that electrity is needed to pump our water. I can see how folks, particularly the elderly have a brutal time under such conditions. Power back-on at 5:30 am! I digress, my apologies...

Almost dyno time! Looking forward to the results, and more pictures. Thanks.

 

time for a bit of SC theory....

So, what's the M62 got that the M45 doesn't? Volume. So it can move more air at the same RPM, or the same air at lower RPM. This gives us efficiency.

So the 62 should be able to deliver the air at a lower temp. That means more dense, which means more power. But there's nothing magic here. We will still have an intake system that delivers air proportional to RPM, just like the 45.

Where will the differences be most felt? Depends on the pulley on the car, but for sure, when the M45 is starting to really blow from an efficiency standpoint, the M62 will still be fine. With the right pulley, you will get more low end AND more high end.

Sorry, it's early, and I didn't sleep well (it was 77 degrees at a bit before 6:00 AM!) so I apologize if this doesn't make much sense.....

Matt

 

not a lot of theory here but I did get a ride in the "62" car today and it is very impressive...... this is a stock car with a 62 and so far they have increased the whp by 30...... they are being very conservative bringing this baby along..... the beauty of it is in the torque....it feels like a small V6..... lots of willingness to pull in 6th gear..... just a nice smooth modulation....very impressive......VERY IMPRESSIVE....

I left my car with DDM and BR Performance today....rented a Cobalt and drove home to Atlanta from Greenville SC.... they will have the car for about a month...more if necessary..... most of you know I have I think every mod for the engine and they are very curious as to the potential of the kit....... I am hoping for 250 whp which will be close to 280 at the crank which will give me the coveted 10:1 ratio wt/hp that I have had as my goal all along...... let's see if we get there....

I asked Dave if he considered his design to be a DIY and he said absolutely that is the goal once the front is off he can put it on in about 1 1/2 hr.

CustomAV came by and got a ride as well so look for a post from him.....

I like this approach because it still feels like our beloved Minis...... the engine behaves/modulates/feeels likewhat we are used to but......bigger...... As this progresses I will post what I know to keep you all informed to the best of my ability..... Im sure you will here from others as well

 

i Want One!!!

 

Isn't it true that the "62" has the "45" snout with a 17% undersize pulley?
Is the 30 whp increase over and above the whp of the stock car
with "45" and 17% undersize pulley?

 

The 30 is over bone stock...... there is no pulley and in fact an oversize pulley is being considered.....yes oversize for the stock engine..... there is an "over boost" condition believe it or not and how to handle that is part of what is being sorted out...... this is the coolest (pun intended) thing since the DFIC which by the way works with the kit.....

 

Matt,

I was just thinking I am so appreciative that you are such a big part of this community...... I read every word you post (that I see) and have learned a ton from you..... thanks.....sincerely

Bob

 

You mentioned overboost, what boost levels are you seeing and at what RPMs are you seeing them?

p.s. FWIW, it's 4:30AM and it's 99F outside. Yes, the suns not even up and it's 99F!!! Just gotta love Phoenix.

 

I was just thinking "your up early" or "still up".... I don't know as I was not there...just part of the conversation yesterday.....next time we speak I'll ask some specifics..... there is no panic just a part of the r&d

 

*Frodo stands in line...*

Hello all, I just want to say thanks for the updates. I guess it pays to be patient and do your research. I have put off all of my engine upgrades to wait for the final product (except exhaust, head, cam and DFIC) since all other mods are in question. Looking forward to the final product.

BTW if overboost levels are occuring, at what RPM and have they considered a blow off valve. I know how they are used in turbo applications; couldn't something similar be used to controll the desired bost level? Just a thought.

 

Just a quick question: Why are you going through all the trouble of adding alot more boost and still using a top mount intercooler?

 

Also if you go with an oversize pulley you are going to lose boost. Less boost less horsepower. I am sure the "overboost" they are talking about is maxing out the factory TMAP sensor.

And as far as 250whp... Well that's the limit of a stock twincharge motor. Reaching that on boost only which just a supercharger... Well I think you proabably will need a set forged pistons to keep up. Just my 2 cents.

 

see the M7 DFIC.....it works very well wo all the extra plumbing..... the DFIC is the best thing to come along in a long time...... the 62 will be another break through....