So... does this mean as others have said that this kit is prob ably an end stage mod for engines equipped to handle the increased air flow. Wasn't the whole purpose of Gr8Force' s car as a beta was to discern how the M62 performed on a relatively stock configuration? If you add a ported head, header, larger injectors, and all the other items to get optimal performance, it's a lot more than just $3500 for the M62 sc and a water pump. Has anyone configured any software to make the extra torque and hp usable?

 

DDM is now a Unichip dealer/tuner.... I think that some solutions should be coming.....

I think the 62 is for the guy who has most of the mods but wants more.....not crazy about the turbo options..... it is still somewhat being sorted out as to pulley size, injectors, etc...... the 62, according to Eaton is for 2.5 4.5 (or 4 ?) liter engines....so there is some tuning/tweeking to be done

 

If the M45 is designed for 2.0 to 3.0 liter engines and the M62 2.5 to 4 liter, then as some have said before and Gr8Force confirmed by saying he now needs a head, this is not simply one of the 1st bolt ons unless your going to change a whole lot of stuff under the hood. Doesn't that defeat the point of his part of the beta test? If it's not the case, let's see the numbers for the M62 added to a stock only configuration. I understand that those of us who don't want to turbo or twincharge have this option. The point is a setup like the SpiderX when tuned properly with more efficient intercooler, injectors, head, header exhaust, and software will be a much better candidate for the M62 than a stock setup.

 

DDM is trying to establish the parameters for porting the kit to the MINI. That the M62 will likely perform best with mods that maximize its efficiencies and overcome its inefficiencies has already been well covered in this thread.

As Dane (Gr8Force) & Bob (SpiderX) have stated, Dane's car has had considerable improvement in seat of the pants performance. Whether it's worthwhile in a performance per dollar sense is still to be determined and is obviously somewhat subjective. Give them time to finish the development (and post the dynos). Then you can decide for yourself.

 

OK, since nobody's mentioned it so far, what about the new line of superchargers from Eaton that are intended to significantly outperform and to supercede the M series (both 45 and 62)?

See this thread:

https://www.northamericanmotoring.co...ad.php?t=87486

 

Didn't they promise dyno's of the base kit with nothing on it? It would be nice if we could see what it does on a stock car before they go adding a head to the mix. If no dyno's are shown with the stock configuration I am going a different route for sure as this has been quiet from day one after big numbers being touted.

Bill

 

I can't speak for DDM, but as I understand it they intend to post the dynos of the kit on Dane's stock car (and the other betas) at some point. As far as any big numbers that were touted, that was mostly speculation by interested parties during the early stages of this thread.

If you'd like to know more, you can always call DDM and talk to Dave.

 

big numbers touted was my wishful thinking after seeing the kinds of gains a 62 does to a Miata......the Miatta head stock flows much better than a Mini head....... DDM never made claims

Dane's car did 197 whp and 187 tq and it is almost stock.....Dave is going to post his sheets.... at least he said he would yesterday when i spoke with him...

the biggest number I have seen from my car is 217-218 whp and 190 tq..... you can tell when driving the car that although a strong car and modulates power well at partial throttle that there are "choke points" at WOT and that is what is being addressed.....pulley sizes etc......I am hoping for 230whp ... we'll see.....

this is not a simple bolt on yet..... all the work being done is to evolve it to that point.......

 

I think this post is classified under someone other than interested parties. If SpiderX can only get those types of numbers with many thousands of dollars spent this has been a major disappointment in my eyes. We can only hope they get the issues worked out going forward.

Bill

 

Well I'm not gonna knock Peter for his enthusiasm, but as I remember, at that point in time DDM was the only one doing the development work. I know he's been chomping at the bit to get one of the test kits fitted to their Cosworth car and see what it can do. As is always the case with any development project, its easier said then done. I'm sure this will turn out to be a disappointment to some and a success to others. Stick around if you have the patience.

 

The reason we did not publish my numbers was because we felt there were problems...

Dane's car at 197 and 187 almost stock is damn good...... if he can get the incremental gains from the head etc...he should be in pretty good territory.....

My car has been an enigma...no doubt..... it is a strong Mini but not the 265+ I was hoping for......

I am still waiting for Peter to get a kit strapped to his car but that has had so many delays that I won't talk about it anymore

 

Thanks Bob for the update and being bold enough to step up and put the SpiderX mini up for the experiment. I am sure once you get the car properly configured you'll be much closer to the goal. Happy motoring until then.

 

You misunderstand completely what I said. I did not say if you got the M62 that you HAVE to get a head and all the other add ons. What I said is that it shows where the bottlenecks are in a stock setup. That does not say you cannot do the M62 alone. It's that simple. An ECU tune with A/F's will complete the stock config. I do not have the ECU tuned...yet. Now as to whether this is worth it then that's up to you. I'm enjoying the hell out of it and look forward to more one step at a time.

I knew of Dave's numbers but agreed not to post the numbers as things are still in the testing phase and I did not have that graph. The car was and is not properly tuned and my personal dyno run was a bust due to a faulty blower at the dyno. I still plan on doing a run before the head when the blower is working. Again, and it has been posted over and over and over, patience is the key here. If you don't want to wait until the finished product then don't. If you are willing to wait (with all the proof published by M7) then be paitent and wait. Until then the tidbits will be posted if the wind is blowing in the right direction.

 

Good Morning Dane,

I spoke with Dave a few days ago and he said he was going to post your numbers...... people want to know and many are saving or have budgeted $ toward a 62..... people need to ride in one of these cars to appeciate what these numbers mean.....

 

197 WHP (if correct) with the M62 is 7 WHP more than I see on average with a CAI, 15% pulley, a street exhaust system, and custom tune.
An M62 install was not needed to find the bottle neck as I have been posting about it since May (when I joined NAM).
Why is a head of some sort now being fitted, ex post facto?
Why is the Unichip the preferred tuning device?

 

As Dane has already pointed out, they had problems during his dyno run which affected the numbers. Dane contemplating a head has nothing to do with finding out what the M62 would do on a stock car. Remember they are trying to test the kit on a range of cars and then refine them based on where they find those bottlenecks. It's simply Dane's choice of follow on mod apparently. It was also stated that DDM wished to remain ECU tune neutral. That they chose to become a Unichip dealer was merely a business choice, as I understand it.

 

[QUOTE=Gr8Force;1290108]You misunderstand completely what I said. I did not say if you got the M62 that you HAVE to get a head and all the other add ons. What I said is that it shows where the bottlenecks are in a stock setup. That does not say you cannot do the M62 alone. It's that simple. An ECU tune with A/F's will complete the stock config. I do not have the ECU tuned...yet. Quote]

I'm sure you don't have to do anything and if one wanted they could do the M62 alone. As you are saying and as Bob has said, the M62 on the Miata fared much better because less resistance in the head. The mini head presents more of a bottleneck. I think we all agree on that. If the M45 is sufficient for the level of resistance innate to the stock mini, and the numbers are comparable to those gained from a pulley and a few other mods, then the point here is that in the end the M62 (a bigger blower) will be optimal for cars that can handle a bigger blower as others are still figuring out bottelneck issues inherent in the stock M45 config.

Again i'm sure with patience this will prove to be one of the best innovations for the mini. But as others like Lucky Dog Garage and Mini Madness's endless attempts at the stand alone turbo has shown much promise, and they have cars that you can ride in around the block that will blow you away, because of ECU tuning issues, there is no product. And so it may be with the M62 though it's probably not as difficult as the turbo only setups. We will wait and see.

By the way, these setups have been produced for at least 2 years by others like BBR in the UK. But because of all involved in making it work properly, the costs make it prohibitive for most ($20K). In the end i think you will find the same. But we will wait and see.

Now, tell me again why Dane is looking for a head when he just got the M62 kit and that should be sufficient?

 

My car has a Unichip and needs tuning...... 3rd party was getting expensive as we made changes in the pkg... simple as that... bring tuning in house..... the 62 will continue to be tuning neutral but DDM is gettting more familiar with the Unichip.

 

[QUOTE=Cosmic Purple;1290165]The 62 kit from the Uk is $20K and does not out perform my car.....(from what I have seen) it does include a head and IC etc.....

people don't realize the complexities of making stuff like this "play nice".....

the turbo only solution is very interesting if it would perform like the 2.0T in the A3....

 

Just a couple questions now that numbers have been posted.

As a comparison, if you take an M45 car and max it out with ALL the goodies possible (less NOS and turbo) what hp / tq levels can one expect to see....I know this is a broad question because of many variables so approximates are ok for me.

What exactly does Danes car have besides the M62? I would like to try and calculate how much that extra 20ishWHP from Dane to Bob costs.

 

ramblings....

there is no doubt you can get to Dane's power numbers with the M45...... his tq number is better than most..... it seems the 62 is setting up to be the final mod for maxed out cars (this is my opinion) if you are happy with close to 200 whp there are cheaper ways to get there.....and you can spend money in stages......

I have heard all kinds of 225 whp from the m45 but frankly I don't see how...... I think that once my car is sorted that it will do about 230 whp, maybe more.... frankly, that is with a new custom header..... this is not a cheap mod..... if your car is pretty maxed out and you have spent the money already... and you are adventurous... this looks to be a pretty nice addition.....

Dane's car was an experiment in an almost stock car (remember Beta)...... he has the DFIC and a CAI.....

 

http://www.dmhmotorsports.net/DynoSheets.html

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by SpiderX
I have heard all kinds of 225 whp from the m45 but frankly I don't see how...... I think that once my car is sorted that it will do about 230 whp, maybe more.... frankly, that is with a new custom header..... this is not a cheap mod.....





I would like to thank both of the posters for providing a chuckle.
SpiderX for saying how the header is not a cheap mod after probably spending more than $30,000 on his car since he bought it so what is another thousand dollars?

The big post of the day goes to Don who doesn't believe in dyno's, showing Bob that you can make 220hp+. How ironic is that?

Keep up the great job of comedy guys as that is about all that is left on the M62.

Bill

 

He answered the call from DDM for a stock car for beta fitment of the kit. Now he's like the rest of us who want more power still, ready to improve it with a head.

 

great job don!


the only thing is that that looks pretty lean... but other than that, fantastic job