Drivetrain M62 SC on the MINI is reality
as for now, no DFIC and v.3 tube to complete the installed
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6th Gear
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Originally Posted by evilc66
What you don't seem to have a grasp on is that at this point more power CAN be made from going to an oversize pulley. You already know that when you overdrive the m45 by 15% you get a good gain in HP, but you also get heat. That heat is wasted enegy. If you slow the m62 down a little, and were only talking a little, you loose the effective total HP coming out of the supercharger based on boost, but you GAIN HP by lowering the charge temps, and reducing parasitic loses on the engine. If they balance things correctly, they losses they would see for slowing the supercharger down can be made up, and possibly even made better from cooler temps and less engine losses. The end result is similar HP gains, run at less dangerous boost levels.
Boost is not eveything. Efficiency is...
Boost is not eveything. Efficiency is...
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6th Gear
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Originally Posted by mini-c
Another great thread of bench racing at its finest. I was hoping for better.
Hear, hear! Flame parties don't benefit anybody. Either do constant calls to show us the numbers (IMHO), since they can be somewhat subjective due to lots of varying conditions and test methods. Regardless, adding new & experienced tuners to our community can only benefit us all and give us more performance options for our cars. Cheers to Dave & DDM. Welcome, glad to have you wrenching & developing for us. May this project meet and exceed all of our expectations.
Originally Posted by SpiderX
actually, I have been trying to keep this from "bench racing" by making no claims...... if you all were to meet Dave he is very modest and genuine......there is no puffery from him at all...any numbers posted have been by me and , as i said before, "wishtimates" (my new word).... This is based on previous experience with a completely different engine..... when I first met Dave at RSpeed, I was hoping I could get him interested in developing for the Mini.....he started with a very desireable product (OEM) and really this is his second effort..... pretty bold..... and what is really cool is suspension and handling is his forte'....... like I said before "no claim....no flame" let's welcome guys like Dave and DDM..... it can only mean more cool stuff for our cars...
5th Gear
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From: Rutherfordton, NC
Originally Posted by maxmini
I can only offer some info regarding the IC location. It is far from optimal but it is the only place on the Mini that you can reliably mount a intercooler
that will not loose boost and still keep your air conditioning. The utilization of a DFIC in this application will also assist in keeping under hood temperatures down . When the TC guys get wind of this and realize how much it could help keep their meltomatics in line they should be happy as well.
Randy
M7 Tuning
that will not loose boost and still keep your air conditioning. The utilization of a DFIC in this application will also assist in keeping under hood temperatures down . When the TC guys get wind of this and realize how much it could help keep their meltomatics in line they should be happy as well.
Randy
M7 Tuning
Why would you loose air condition with a front mount. I have both. And a complete bumper support.
3rd Gear
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Is the 17% pulley from the "45" still on the car?
Originally Posted by Major Mini
Yes the car is completely stock other than the 17% pulley that remains on the blower (remember they are using the nose from the m45 on this 62). This will make the kit so much easier to be installed once marketed.
Dave has a number of programs on his laptop that he uses to monitor a/f ratio, injector pulses, etc.
I understand there are gaps in some details that I report to y'all, and I apologize for not being able to clear things up. I pass on what I hear from the developers but don't want to keep him on the phone too long and away from the project. When I talk to him later I'll ask if he has time to log on here and answer things better.
Dave has a number of programs on his laptop that he uses to monitor a/f ratio, injector pulses, etc.
I understand there are gaps in some details that I report to y'all, and I apologize for not being able to clear things up. I pass on what I hear from the developers but don't want to keep him on the phone too long and away from the project. When I talk to him later I'll ask if he has time to log on here and answer things better.
You'd be surprised...
Originally Posted by spillman
What horsepower level is the intercooler efficient to? As small as it is I don't see it supporting over 230whp efficiently.
So to write to your point, how much HP it will support depends on cooling air flow more than anything else, but whatever the number is, it will be higher than stock.
While a front mount is the preferred set up, it takes a lot of bends to get the air there and back. These rob some power too.....
Matt
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6th Gear
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I am going to ask that this thread stay on topic......
if you have other concerns not related please start a new thread......I monitor this thread and look to see what is new and then to get way OT..is just a pain..... go to a forum and click "new thread" and see who follows ... don't hijack this one
also Spillman,
Please take your agenda elsewhere.....it is not that your questions are without merit in and of themselves but they are without merit in context of this thread.
It is so easy to start a new thread and there are others who are not interested in the 62 that might find your topic interesting and may have some valuable input.... can I be nicer?
Bob
if you have other concerns not related please start a new thread......I monitor this thread and look to see what is new and then to get way OT..is just a pain..... go to a forum and click "new thread" and see who follows ... don't hijack this one
also Spillman,
Please take your agenda elsewhere.....it is not that your questions are without merit in and of themselves but they are without merit in context of this thread.
It is so easy to start a new thread and there are others who are not interested in the 62 that might find your topic interesting and may have some valuable input.... can I be nicer?
Bob
pug poo picker-upper
Joined: Jun 2002
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From: California
Originally Posted by SpiderX
I am going to ask that this thread stay on topic......
I just split out the Supercharger Heat Management Discussion into a new thread.
2nd Gear
Joined: Jan 2006
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From: Maryland
Originally Posted by SpiderX
.... it will probably be larger than stock
(numbers are for problem illustration only, and do not reflect any conversations with anyone other than the voices in my head while I drive...
)
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6th Gear
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Originally Posted by WxSquid
Just so I have this in my mind correctly, they are talking of going +15% rather than the -15% I have on my MINI now, right?
(numbers are for problem illustration only, and do not reflect any conversations with anyone other than the voices in my head while I drive... )
(numbers are for problem illustration only, and do not reflect any conversations with anyone other than the voices in my head while I drive...
)
With a little more help from Eaton,
all this is calculatable.... I'm still guessing that ~15% oversize would be a good way to go to get JCW+ power levels.
The Eaton web-site doesn't have quite enough information to really figure it out all on paper...
Matt
The Eaton web-site doesn't have quite enough information to really figure it out all on paper...
Matt
6th Gear
Joined: Apr 2003
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From: a canyon, south Bay Area
Just found this while taking a break from some work:
http://www.sportcompactcarweb.com/pr..._miata_part_4/
http://www.sportcompactcarweb.com/pr..._miata_part_4/
6th Gear
Joined: Apr 2003
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From: a canyon, south Bay Area
Originally Posted by jlm
it is difficult to fit a pulley much larger in dia than 10% larger than the M45 stock size. it starts to interfere with the tensioner pulley.
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6th Gear
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Originally Posted by jlm
it is difficult to fit a pulley much larger in dia than 10% larger than the M45 stock size. it starts to interfere with the tensioner pulley.
3rd Gear
Joined: Aug 2005
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From: Boston, MA
Overdrive pulley calculations...
Can't you calculate by flow rates?
If the M45 flows 0.75L/rev and you add a 15% underdrive pulley onto it, then you will get 0.75L/rev*1.15 = 0.8625L/rev
If the M62 flows 1L/rev and you want it to flow the same as a 15% underdriven M45, then you would the following increase in supercharger speed:
(1-((1L/rev) / (0.8625L/rev))) = 0.159 or 15.9%
With a ~16 overdrive pulley, the flow rates will match (albeit the supercharger will be spinning ~31% slower than with the M45.
Does this make sense?
RM2k5
If the M45 flows 0.75L/rev and you add a 15% underdrive pulley onto it, then you will get 0.75L/rev*1.15 = 0.8625L/rev
If the M62 flows 1L/rev and you want it to flow the same as a 15% underdriven M45, then you would the following increase in supercharger speed:
(1-((1L/rev) / (0.8625L/rev))) = 0.159 or 15.9%
With a ~16 overdrive pulley, the flow rates will match (albeit the supercharger will be spinning ~31% slower than with the M45.
Does this make sense?
RM2k5
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6th Gear
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Originally Posted by RallyMINI2005
Can't you calculate by flow rates?
If the M45 flows 0.75L/rev and you add a 15% underdrive pulley onto it, then you will get 0.75L/rev*1.15 = 0.8625L/rev
If the M62 flows 1L/rev and you want it to flow the same as a 15% underdriven M45, then you would the following increase in supercharger speed:
(1-((1L/rev) / (0.8625L/rev))) = 0.159 or 15.9%
With a ~16 overdrive pulley, the flow rates will match (albeit the supercharger will be spinning ~31% slower than with the M45.
Does this make sense?
RM2k5
If the M45 flows 0.75L/rev and you add a 15% underdrive pulley onto it, then you will get 0.75L/rev*1.15 = 0.8625L/rev
If the M62 flows 1L/rev and you want it to flow the same as a 15% underdriven M45, then you would the following increase in supercharger speed:
(1-((1L/rev) / (0.8625L/rev))) = 0.159 or 15.9%
With a ~16 overdrive pulley, the flow rates will match (albeit the supercharger will be spinning ~31% slower than with the M45.
Does this make sense?
RM2k5
Yes. As far as it goes..
you've got the volume calculation down perfectly. But the M45 will heat the air more than the M62, so that needs to be taken into account, and the data available on the Eaton website isn't up to the task.... For example, the M45 data only has temp rise for boosts of 5 and 10 psi. the 10 psi curve is fine to compare a stock MCS to, but not a pulleyd car.
So while the volume side of the equation is pretty straigtforward, the temp isn't.
and it's not about boost, it's about density....
Matt
So while the volume side of the equation is pretty straigtforward, the temp isn't.
and it's not about boost, it's about density....
Matt
2nd Gear
Joined: Nov 2002
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From: Michigan
Originally Posted by TonyB
Good info John. Might be time to reconsider the tensioner then... Heck, or just a smaller crank pulley...
Maybe Unorthodox Racing will finally sell some units (never understood why they made an underdrive pulley for a blower car)!