that video doesn't show anything useful

 

I just talked to Dave and they dynoed the 62 on the stock car and they dynoed my car for deltas.... without hard numbers thisis some significant info...

The 62 car has more power than my car until about 5-5.5K RPM and then I develop about 10 more hp.... this is with the AGS re installed..... they have collected a lot of deltas and next week a 62 goes on my car.... people that have driven my car know that it is a pretty good performer and one kit that can put you in my ball park with everything else stock is really something..... there is a bottleneck in the stock car and it is not the exhaust.... that is what they will be chasing.....

 

WHOA . . . listening intently . . . .

 

whoa that is an intense gain.....very eager to hear more.

And thank you for donating your car's time to a cause that will help our community. You have my respect

 

Amazing! I'm very excited now How much hp did you dyno before? 180-190 ish?

 

To think I came close to pulling the TC trigger.

My new ver. 2.0 MCS is fairly similar to SpiderX's except no sunroof and the 06 tranny, so I can hardly wait. :impatient

 

I got to tell you this is some pretty cool S#!t....... I was just telling Sid..... to get up close to my power with one integrated kit is really something... now next week we will start to really have fun......

the dynos were done at over 100 deg in the shop so both cars were very heat soaked... but they did get deltas.......

totally committed,

Bob

 

how much power....how much power??????????

 

Bob,

Do they anticipate that current mods will be relatively additive in HP?

You know how we used to read x power for CAI, x for ECU, X for pulley, etc, but they didn't add linearily.

Cuz, if you were at, say, 210 whp, then this would put you right there in strong TC range, but with potentialy more reliability/serviceability unless you lived near a TC installer.

 

Don't want to speak for SpiderX, but I think we have about the same wheel horsepower now . . 215 - 220 range.

This is going to get interesting.

 

so, starting with stock:
62 kit: $3,500 total of 220 whp, (anticipated), DIY install, (no fuel management, no injectors)
Alta TC: $4,000, 220whp, DIY install; (no fuel management, no injectors)
Helix TC: $5,000, 250whp, installed price, (fuel management, injectors)

numbers are from memory, so feel free to edit

 

anything that can be done to help flow is a postive.....things like header, highflow head... intake etc will all help.... exactly what is best for most power is what they will start to sort out next week..... I just got off the phone with Brant for BR and they have two other SC kits they are trying to get out ...new Miata and the S2000....DDM is leading the charge on this kit.....

Dave will be at the Dragon this weekend with the Miata people... when he gets back starting to sort out the 62 Mini kit is high priority.... no numbers will be released until truly meaningful numbers are aquired...... we are still hoping for 260whp from my car....but no one knows what we do kinow is that when you strat to put some serious mods to the 1.6 the M45 just can't keep up.....try as it might....it is just the wrong tool at that point.... the TC guys figured this out a long time ago....

 

Thats a nice looking setup, thats for sure. Forget twin charge and just stay with the SC. how good of a setup is this for a daily driver? All i have is a 16% reduction pulley and exhaust? Interested thats for sure. Thanks Spike

 

Bob, you are correct in saying that you need to seriously think about a head, header and some sort of intake mod to really take advantage of this 62 kit. Flow is key. Remember, if you put it in you have to be able to let it out. With that comes efficiency. Of course this will add to the cost, but if you got the green to go with this kit you got it to take it "all the way" - more than likely. And all that adds up to one mean car.

 

Just wanted to lend an edit...
the Helix kit is $4800 without install, but it does include everything Install is another $800 & is not available to install yourself.

The Alta kit can be found on sale for much less & more importantly you could have the kit sitting on your doorstep in a few days as it is readily available from vendors. If your the hands on kind of person, this kit is for you. You can shop around and pick up the Apexi with lil to no internet savey for $250. Alta offers to resize your injectors to 550cc for around $230 or so. I went that route as not only was it the most economical but I knew they would fit with no tweaking. I actually came in around $4k total so far how I am setup.

Twin Charging is nice for sure and the power differnce has transformed the car dramtically. Its only for the die-hards and I wouldnt reccomend it to someone who just wants a lil' more emph. The 62 conversion seems like it is a great way to keep the car closer to the stock feel & I think its great that its being tested! I would love to compare the two if they get to 250whp. I think that it will end up costing more in the long run, but I think the car will be nicer to drive, honestly.

I give all involved a big .

 

"Bob, you are correct in saying that you need to seriously think about a head, header and some sort of intake mod to really take advantage of this 62 kit. Flow is key. Remember, if you put it in you have to be able to let it out. With that comes efficiency. Of course this will add to the cost, but if you got the green to go with this kit you got it to take it "all the way" - more than likely."

I tend to agree here. I seem to recall a few of the TC guys saying that the stock SC was a flow-restrictor at some point. With the M62 flowing quite a bit more (30-50%?), the bottleneck is somwhere else. I'm sure DDM will be hunting this down though!

 

Next, someone will want to TC the 62...

 

you know that's coming

Good Stuff

 

Oh I'm sure....maybe me who knows I always wanted to be "Fireball Bob"

 

Can you say, "Replace all internals!"? Sure you can. See? That wasn't so difficult.

That's going to be a mind boggling monster!

 

I think the next couple months will be very interesting for MINI tuners...

 

Seems like the TC crowd has figured out that the correctly sized turbo without the SC makes a better package than the combo. At least, that's what a read of the efficiency maps would indicate. See how a bunch of the TC crowd has removed the SC?

The VW factory TC doesn't run series, it runs parallel. First the SC for low RPM response, then turbo for higher RPM efficiency....

Matt

But I still really like the M62 package....

 

I've been doing a lot reading on the m62. It seems to be a very popular unit to be put on cars. Everything from Cobalts to Neons to VWs, etc. - even Lotus. Most of these displacements are around 2.0L and the boost has been around 10psi. With that said, the debate on what pulley size to use might be answered with the looking at what these applications are using - adjusted minutely, of course. I'm sure that the guys in the r&d phase of this are aware and can get this "dialed in" soon and be producing kits before we know it. The only thing that may be a hold up is the software aspect. However, if they keep the boost in check, could they not just upgrade the injectors and adjust the fuel map accordingly? All a little over my head, but it does provoke thought.

Overall, this looks to be a very good step in the right direction. I'd love to get my hands on a wrecked Cobalt's m62.....

Oh btw, another thought, if they are going to keep the boost levels around 10 to 13 psi, would the stock IC setup be sufficient to cool the charge? I'm thinkin' with the standard scoop/diverter upgrade, this should be enough to at least keep the charge to what it "should be", correct? It's not like we are going to be running at 15psi, like with the 15% plus pulleys.

PPS, btw Hornguys, I stil have not put on the USS yet. I know that you wanted to know how it would be/perform on a hartop, but just havn't gotten there yet.

 

Thanks for remembering. I'll look forward to your results.

 

Our motor would injest a certain amount of air without the blower. When we put the blower on, the amount of air it stuffs into the intake is determined by the pulley ratios. So where does the boost come from? The boost is how much pressure is needed to get the motor to breath in as much air as the SC is pumping....

So why does this matter? If you run the M62 to create the same boost as the M45, then you will have the same volume of air (although denser do to less heating), so all the stuff after the SC would be fine. It's when you start boosting above what the 45 does that you have to worry about other system capacities (like the IC....).

And no, you don't want to look at pulley sizes of other cars, becuase they may have different crank pulley diameters. What you really want to do is figure out how much air you want to breath vs RPM, and set the pulley diameters to achieve that. The boost that comes out of it will be dependant on things like breating of the head, and the exhaust system (among other things....)

Matt