I hope everyone appreciates having you around to help keep us out of the ditches..... if you come to the Dragon next year dinner and beer is on me....

 

Stupid question guys...

I've read most of whats here...I'm guessing the exact pulley size is still up in the air, correct? Do you think these fella's may make a couple different sizes available? Possible one for those that may not mind doing engine internals to get more boost.


Seann

 

I don't want to answer for them but right now their hands are full but making a pulley is definitly something they can do...... I like what your thinking...... just as an aside.... I'm planning on my car being gone at least a month and I am very excited to get it back......with the 62.....

 

Ultimately, a selection of pullies, and possibly a combo SC and crank, might be what we see. Depending upon one's mods, desires, and fuel (CA pump 91 comes-to-mind).

 

I am thinking a smaller crank pulley makes sense. I believe it would help with the excess boost/heat and create less drag on the motor. Also the alternator would turn slower, creating less drag=more HP. I believe it would be the same effect as the larger alternator pulleys on the market now (which I have but I am not going to use untill the M62 is worked out).
I am just thinking out loud here...don't beat me up

Did someone say this is Dave from RSpeed working on this? That is goood news


Ciao for now...Frodo

 

Rembemer, these SCs are used on tons and tons of cars. There are lots of different diameters to choose from! In fact, I don't know if the idea of a "stock" pulley size really means anything unless you specify the car that the SC came on.....

Matt

 

Bingo! Why re-invent the pulley .

Should be fun for them to experiment with the various options! The whole concept of stock size is out the window here...

 

Dave is from DDM but he does things with RSpeed

 

I emailed a pulley/damper company about the possibility of making an crank damper pulley in a custom size. They said they can make it any size larger or smaller (with the damper) and they are interested in contacting the guys making the M62 kit for specifics. They have been making dampers for about 25 years so they know what they are doing. I am not trying to start whether or not a damper is needed on the crank; I am just trying to help with pulley options.

Ciao for now,
Frodo

 

okay... ill be honest i haven't read the entire thread... only about 6 or 7 pages... but i have a couple of ideas that may help clear some confusion... (hopefully its not just me who is confused) No, i am not all knowing... these are meerly ideas... and if you don't like them you can tell me to take a hike

I have been reading the last 3 or 4 pages and i see people making the argument of stock pulley on a m62 or underdriven pulley on an m62 vs the stock blower... and how much more or less power the will make...

since reportedly their are numerous pulley sizes for the M62 perhaps we should just look at boost levels instead of pulley size.

An m62 making 15lbs of boost vs a stock blower making 15lbs of boost will make more power... plain and simple. The IATs will be cooler and their will be a larger volume of air being pushed into the motor.

Some of you have been discussing what happens to a cooper S motor after the 250whp mark... well so far for MOST it has been pretty ugly... commonly ring failure results... Most of the people who have lost their motor at 250whp has been twin charged cars and nitrous heads. Both of these power adders add a tremendous amount of cylinder pressure, heat etc... All very bad... very very bad. Im wondering what a m62 with a significant amount of boost will do to the motor since... hopefully cylinder pressures wont be as high. what a significant amount of boost is... i don't know yet... but none the less this should be interesting!

I am hoping that with this mod we can all get to 300whp or close to it, reliably... and without replacing the stock pistons which for most of the enthusiast is out of the question due to cost, down time and perhaps just the unfamiliarity of changing the internals of an engine.

just my thoughts...

I guess im not really adding all that much to the discussion other than perhaps the suggestion of talking about boost instead of stock puelly size and over/under sized puellys because with the m62... it all goes out the window. Every other car that has a supercharger whether add aftermarket or OEM talks about having a 9lbs pulley or a 10 or a 12lbs pulley... we may need to switch to this method due to M62 becoming a reality. I think it will just make things easier...

also while im ranting... what accronym is DMIC or whatever...
TMIC= top mount intercooler
FMIC= Front mount intercooler
what gives?

thanks for your time folks!

 

DFIC = M7 Tuning Direct Flow Intercooler

HTH!

 

ahh... cool... ive alwasy wondered what the differnces would be if you mounted the intercooler that way... hmmm neat...

okay... so i admit... i haven't been on the message boards for a while...

what the heck does HTH mean... gosh... i feel like im 60 years old with the internet lingo... forgive me

 

pretty much right on the money except for a couple of items...

in your example above, the volume will be the same with the 62 and the 435, but the density will be different. That's where the extra power comes from. But you are correct: this is the result of lower IATs.

I'm not a big fan of quoting pulleys by the boost rating. You start going into the head and adding a header and free flow exhaust, and the boost will drop a couple of pounds. Make the boost unit somewhat installation dependant, whereas diameters are an absolute measure.

But anyway, all we have to do is jabber like this until we get more progress reports from those actually involved in the development.

Matt

 

"jabber" is right....I am home with my 8 year old son who is sick so I am ever vigilant on the board

 

i will eat my words.. you are correct on the density vs. volume! Thats what i meant but... i still used the incorrect terminology! which ineffect made it an erroneous statement!

you are correct about differnt mods ultimately affecting boost "ratings" BUT when you say that you are running a 10lbs pulley on a viper... the 10lbs is based off of a stock car... everyone knows that with a larger intercooler a Xlbs pulley will actually make less boost... at least they do on every other car enthusiast board...

I don't know... i just thought that it was an idea that everyone could releate to. regardless of what supercharger you are running etc...

maybe it is a bad idea for the MINI commuity...

 

please excuse spelling errors... new keyboard... plus day off and not wanting to proof read anything = looking like bafoon on internet...

 

Won't beat you up, but remember with the M62 you get an electric water pump, which draws on the electrical system - it will be a balancing act to spin the crank/blower/alternator at the 'right' speeds while fitting everything into the engine bay.

 

The first step is admitting you have a problem.....

Just kidding. You are correct about the thought process in MINIdom. We always talk about 15%, 17%, etc. Mainly be cause they have a known effect on performance. The exact values of that impact will be different based on all the component variables. The differences have been discussed ........well............ a LOT.. to be polite

Once these pioneers establish the baseline pulley size for the unit they're working on we will probably immediately start using ± values based on that.

 

Damn..just found this thread (where the hell have i been) ...but I am so interested in this !!!!

 

I wonder what the differences in parasitic loss would be between the increased load fron the electric water pump, and actually using the belt driven Cooper water pump (it is belt driven right?). If they are intelegently controlling the pump I'm sure they would reduce the loss to a minimum, but I would think a belt driven pump would simplify installation.

I wonder....

 

the short version: Great Freakin' idea!

the longer version: While it is true that the water pump will take power to turn, the power can come from the battery. So you charge the battery when you have extra power, and you use the power when you're at WOT. So you don't have to get the whole current load from the alternator when you're flooring it. Also, alternators do the balancing act just fine. that's what the voltage regulator is for.

So the average power to drive the electric pump will be about the same or a little bit higher than to drive a mechanical pump, you drive it with energy that was saved up, and not from the engine during your 1/4 mile run.

Also, in the early days of MTH tunes there was a lot of discussion about turning off the alternator when the car was floored. I don't know what every came of this, but lots of cars suspend the A/C when floored, so this ought to be doable. Then you have no alternator load when you're trying to accelerate fastest.

Matt

 

Ha, right you are! I forgot about that...oh well I will take a seat back on the bench and think some more...and let the pro's continue the R&D

 

I like the fact that it has a timer and it continues to cool the motor after it is shut off

 

This thing just keeps looking better and better

 

The factory water pump is driven off the supercharger, thus the need for an alternative means of driving it when switching to the M62.