Hey folks,

With all the discussion about heat, and heat management, I had a couple ideas that I wanted to bounce off the communtiy.

First... can you water-jacket a supercharger? Would it help? If the cooling system routed water through the supercharger case, could you reduce the amount of heat induced to the intake charge? Would it be enough to help?

Along these lines, can you reroute the intercooler exhaust in a better way? Anyone that has removed the stock intercooler can see that the exhaust area is cluttered with a wide variety of hoses and pipes... is there a way to smooth out this ventilation path, perhaps routing it to the low pressure area near the windshield to help pull the hot air through the intercooler? I have been thinking of doing this as a DIY project for a month or so, and I wanted to know if anyone else had tried it?

Finally, has anyone ever ceramic coated an engine block? I realize it would impart more heat-load onto the cooling system, but it would reduce underhood temps as well... maybe a win? If you can ceramic coat the headers, exhaust, and turbo's I don't immediately see a reason why not...

I've just got heat-management on the brain.

Thanks again for all the good posts!

RM2k5

 

yes, you could....probably not. You are adding lots of mass to the system. Even if you got the charge a bit cooler, I don't think it would be a winner. Remember, the SC isn't designed as a good heat exchager, and that most of the heating is by the compression of the gas. An intercooler is the apporpriate way to cool the charge post compression. Sure! and many have done it. Not exactly that, but search on DFIC or look at the Alta prototype IC......
And where would the heat go? Back under the hood via the radiator! Actually, I don't think you want to insulate the engine, I think you'd want it to shed as much heat as possible.

FWIW...

Matt

oops! Still OT.... Back on topic.... Oh, I think this is a neat idea, but have nothing to say until more results come out....

 

There's a thread targeted at this very thought that you might find worthwhile: https://www.northamericanmotoring.co...ad.php?t=71261

 

This is something that I have thought about too...Why not hit the SC with a shot of nitrous or c02 running though a msd rpm window switch?? It would super cold and helping the SC condence more air. However it would not be cost efficent. Pluse like Dr. O said, the SC isn't designed as a heat exhanger, but the IC is. And why not just shoot the nitrous into the motor... Just some ideas that I've been kickeing around in my head -- Johan

 

And a darned fine thread it is too

 

Like the Dr implied. Charge cooling is the target.
Cooler going into the SC and cooler post IC.

I guess it's just the cost and complexity that keeps water mist injection off the table. Cost has kept me away. That and I have higher priorities on my list right now. Like that M62 mmmmmmmmmm

This thread on direct scoops has some bearing on this issue as well.
Here's another thread that helps here. I demonstrated that this scoop design is quite effective in lowering IC temps.

 

Thanks for the links to all these threads, lots of great info!

What I haven't seen yet is someone that has truly harnessed the low-pressure near the windshield to draw heat directly out of the intercooler...

Perhaps it's unreasonable to do, but I plan on looking into some ways to go about it... I am thinking about ducting the heat out to high-speed airstreams to try and draw it away.

And yes, M62=Mmmmmmmmmmmmmmm!

Can't wait.

RM2k5

 

It's an interesting thought... you should jump in to the thread I linked, and post up your ideas. There's a lot of creativity going on there, someone might take your idea and create a useful solution!

 

What a coincidence.
I just posted in another thread that there isn't low pressure in the cowl. I did thorough testing and posted it years ago.
It got ignored again but what the heck

Think about it.
The simple proof is....
Drive down the highway at 50+ mph, HVAC fan off. Air selector directing air to the dash vents. Is there air comiing out of the vents? Yes there is. Where does this air come from? The cowl.

 

I just wanted to state that I have a great idea for a dual purpose intercooler. Air/air air/water combo. I am also trying to come up with the funds to obtain a certain intercooler for sale elsewhere to complete this. The theory is spot on, just need to execute. No need for nay sayers. Just trying to help!

 

A cowl induction hood.. Good idea, it would work but tuff to build. At 1 time I had a wrecked Mini hood ( non S ) There is some structure that is important that would need to be cut that would hurt the intregrity of the bonnet.

I love the idea & for sure a cowl induction hood would look great on the car. All that nice round.... Photochop anyone?

 

I have already removed the diagonal bracing under the bonnet and yes it does flop around a bit. Just be careful when closing. I usually shut the bonnet with my hands at the inner edge of the headlights. But removing the bracing opens up a whole lotta room.

 

Braces? We don't need no stinking braces!

 

[FONT=Verdana]Don't forget there are clearance issues between the rotors and the case of the blower. Cooling the case would shrink it and the hot expanding rotors may make contact. If you're going to cool the blower, water injection is the only way I'd try. That way you cool the case and rotors at the same time, and improve the rotor seal.[/FONT]

 

We don't? I thought we did....

 

I was goofing on lambspeed. He has removed his. Bracing on the under side of the hood that is.

He's braver than I am.

BTW lambspeed, did you weigh it? TonyB might be interested

Just kidding Tony.

 

your teeth? Each person is different....

Matt

 

Same here, only you are included. Couldn't resist.

 

im sure they weighed as much as two full cans of soda, which will rot your teeth anyway

 

Actually, this phenomenon is the result of the HUGE vacuum behind the car at 50mph... the air is being PULLED into the car, not pushed... Look in the boot area, there are two mesh-covered vents that empty to the outside right behind the bumper. Air is drawn out of the cabin by these two vents, thus the breeze you are talking about.

I'll give a different example. Think about how an airplane wing works, as the air approaching the front of the wing seperates, some of it moves over the top surface of the wing momentarily compressing it. As it flows over the downward sloping rear section of the wing, it seperates from the wing surface, creating the low-pressure area at the back of the wing responsible for lift.

On the MINI, the action is very similar, as air approaches the front surface of the car, it is momentarily compressed by the front bumper/grill surface, as it flows rearward, it seperates from the surface of the hood as it flows up the windshield incline. This flow seperation creates a low pressure area near the cowl, which can be used to pull air from the engine bay! Thousands of hot-rodders can't be wrong... and if they are don't tell them, they're surly!

Back to my tinkering...

RM2k5

 

actually, what you are describing is a "stall"..... Bernoulli's principle "as the velocity of a fluid (air) increases, it's internal pressure decreases."
It is not necessary for the fluid to pass through an enclosed tube to apply.... what happens to the air going over/under the wing is that the air on top speeds up to meet the air on bottom (assuming wing shape etc) and this differential causes the low pressure on top and the higher pressure on bottom which gives lift..... the seperation you are describing is what happens when the air breaks its flow seperates from the trailing edge (at first) and the "stall" happenss......what this means is that a nasty eddy current can be living right where the scoop/vent/opening is and not only not give the desired effect but no efffect to destructive (to power) effect..... that is why some kind of airflow analysis is important to this project..... watch what happens to the rain when it beads and runs off..... tape short strands of yarn all over the top and observe.... some low tech ways to get this info..... of course you can always rent out the wind tunnel at your favorite aerospace company or whatever..... trying to help

 

Wind tunnel fees here where I work $50K/hr Booked months/years in advance just in case you had some time/money lying around. We did have a NASCAR vehicle here a couple years ago.

Funny you should mention rain. It rained yesterday and I was weaving around like a looney trying to watch the rain flow up the hood. Not much motion at 50 MPH so as has been mentioned the blunt shape of the nose is probably keeping a good flow off the skin of the hood. Luckily though the swale between the headlight and scoop seems to help alleviate this some which is close to being in line with where a scoop might be mounted.

Sorry Rally buddy but that description just isn't the reason. Nice postulate though.

 

No spare $50K here but yarn would work.....just guessing the nose is so blunt here is no "pretty" flow over the bonnet but just a huge turbulant swirl but that is just a guess..... I really don't know.....seems like someone did all this a while back

 

You know. I just remember I have a digital camcorder D'oh!

Yarn and painters tape. Too bad I'm going on vacation tomorrow. Getting in the way of my car hobby

 

Interesting... I stand corrected.

Since I don't have $50K in these pair of pants, I guess I will have to get some yarn and tape and just see for my darn self... I am thinking I will tape the yarn to the inside of the engine bay area, and feed little bits of yarn out the honeycomb vents near the windshield wipers. If the airflow is going the way I think it is, then the yarn will be drawn outwards and I will see them standing up... if the airflow is INTO the hood then they will be squished down into the vent.

I know some of you weren't really thinking of it this way, but this test would get back to the original idea of pulling air out of the cowl area to improve intercooler efficiency.

Hmmm, now to find some yarn...

RM2k5