Dunno about the Chinese, they're as cash-strapped as we are. However, less than a month ago Fiat bought a 35% ownership in Chrysler, so I wonder if the Brazil plant was thrown in the deal. After all, Brazil is one of Fiat's largest markets.

 

The sale happened long before Fiat hopped into bed with Chrysler.

Back on topic cold start database....

 

Model: R56S 6 speed manual
Build Date: July 07
Miles: 24,000
Duration: 2-5 min. until the car warms up
Frequency: every morning it's cold out!
RPM range: much more noticeable at 2k vs. idle.
Ambient Temp: 30-45 degrees
Oil: Stock. Oil changes make no difference.

 

Are you telling me the are not using the engine that is in my 08 Clubman S?
(sorry, I don't know the engine names and numbers)

 

Yes they are still using that same engine. All R56/R55 MINI's used it & still do.

 

Yep same engine. But I live in Florida so fortunately I don't get to experience this issue full force.

 

I've experienced the same problems with my '08 MCS. It's only done 500 miles so I'm wondering if there's a 'breakin period' for this. I park it in my garage. I've experienced it when the temp has dropped below zero, as well as when it's been above freezing.

After about 2 or 3 minutes driving the noise does disappear. I was wondering if there's metal components that expand with heat to fill gaps where there might be in contact with plastic components. I really have no idea though.
My dealer tried to duplicate after letting the car sit in sub-zero temps for a while. The noises are there about 50% of the time.

Model: 2008 MCS
Build Date: 07/08 (?)
Miles: 500
Duration: 2 or 3 minutes until warmed up
Frequency: (times per month/week) 50%
RPM range: 2000+
Ambient Temp: 25 - 40 degrees (or -3 -> +5 in Canajun)
Oil: stock synthetic

 

There is no "break-in" issue here. We are all dealing with a poorly designed and tested timing chain /valve train system for the turbocharged R56 motor. Get in your dealer's face and demand they fix it - which they can't right now since BMW is still working on a cure - version 3.0 is pending. Do not accept any comment that this noise is "normal". Ask them to point out any other car on the road that rattles like this. Our local MINI dealer has already replaced a significant number of low-mileage R56 engines due to broken timing chains. They had a fresh one deposited on their doorstep yesterday morning. Due to the valve train design for the turbo version, a snapped timing chain literally destroys the engine and a new one is required.

Don't despair about the new car however. Once the oil system pumps up the tensioner and valve lash adjusters in about a minute or two, the MINI is a wonderful fun car to drive. It WILL get fixed, because we, the customers, will hold BMW accountable. Just go easy on the rpms for that first minute - and keep bugging the dealer! They're as upset about this engine debacle as we are.

 

I respectfully and partially disagree with oldMGguy. If you have an S with the issue as I do. Don't go easy on start up if the death rattle appears, drive the crap out of it (up to 4k to 5k rpm on shifts) as Mini says it is a 'normal' issue during this initial starting experience. Otherwise it sounds like you will baby a car that will be out of warrenty when the timing chain breaks and destroys the engine.

George

 

Model: 08 Cooper S Manual
Build Date: June 08
Miles:10,000
Duration: 2 Mins
Frequency: Started 3 weeks ago, happened about 8 times?
RPM range:1k-3k
Ambient Temp: 50-75 deg F
Oil: Stock Mini oil

Any other relevant information: Not garaged, parked on flat ground.

When the chatter happens, trying to get into 1st gear is really hard; almost stalls and the car vibrates and shakes. (If it starts normally or warms up, it runs perfect)

I've made an appointment with my dealer to get it checked out this weekend.

I just got the car about 3 months ago (used), this is scaring the crap out of me... did I make a bad purchase? =(

 

Is version 3.0 some sort of diagnostics tuneup or are you talking R57

 

v 3.0 refers to the latest Hello Kitty Band-Aid fix that's being done on UK cars, but hasnt made its way across the pond yet.

 

So at the present time there's really nothing my dealer can do to fix the problem?

 

Correct. this is a design/engineering issue that only BMW can create a solution for. The dealer can only swap out parts in stock. The latest "fix" here in the US is the Nov '08 version of the timing chain tensioner - which is ineffective. Based on posts on the UK-based MINI2 forum, BMW's beta-testing a third version of new timing chain tensioners, along with new timing chains, chain guides, and cam sprockets if warrented. Our local dealer is informally aware of all this, but until BMW sends the parts and authorizes warranty work, the dealer's hands are tied.

Keep bugging the dealer in person and in writing. Let them know in no uncertain terms your car has a metal-on-metal internal engine clatter on start-up, it's NOT NORMAL, and you want it fixed. Be polite - it's not the dealer's fault. They're as upset as we are.

 

Am I correct in understanding that this is not an issue in 09 MY vehicles?

 

IIRC the MINI chain tensioner works off of oil pressure. Why don't they just put a spring tensioner in? My Harley has a spring tensioner on the primary drive chain and they last forever and see a huge amount of torque.

 

It all depends if BMW has incorporated any new design of the timing chain system into your motor on it's build date. There has been no posts on this forum concerning recent factory changes.

Keep us updated as you enjoy that car. If it sounds like a 1960's vintage Mercedes diesel on a morning first start - well, you've got lots of company. Next step if it exhibits the morning "death rattle", will be to make sure your dealer knows you're one very unhappy customer.

 

Found this thread on a Peugeot forum: http://www.207oc.com/index.php/topic,3577.0.html

The guy rants quite a bit, but there is some info in there that is interesting.

 

Great comments, very helpful. Thanks

 

Model: R56
Build Date: LATE 2007
Miles: 18,123
Duration: 2-5 mins
Frequency: (times per month/week) only happend once last 2-28-09
RPM range: around 2,000 rpms
Ambient Temp: 50 deg. in garage
Oil: changed every 5k with Redline 5w-30

Any other relevant information:
Its been make very slight knock noise during warm ups when the engine is cold. I have been waiting for it to get worse. Saturday sounded like a hammer banging on the engine. Took it straight to the dealer and told them I will not drive it untill repaired. They gave me a loaner untill then.

 

Has anybody actually written to Mini and asked for (and received) a reply regarding the situation? Perhaps this has been done and I missed it in the thread.

 

I realize this was a while ago, but last September I wrote to MINI USA, and received the following, after I gave them several links to discussions of this problem:

"I took a look at the links you provided, and unfortunately, they are not endorsed by MINI USA. Therefore, I can not comment on them. However, as previously mentioned, I would suggest staying in touch with your motoring advisor or the service manager. As soon as technical information has been made available, they are the first to know. I apologize I am not able to directly answer your inquiry."

 

Wow is that ever a cop-out on their part. Do you happen to have the links that you complied, I'd like to try Mini Canada. Or is it just the link to this discussion thread?

 

I'm really interested to hear what the dealer has to say. I tried to submit a case online with Mini Canada, but I was thwarted by the website (I smell conspiracy here)

Anyways, undeterred, I phone Mini and they said I had to take it to my dealer for them to diagnose first. Fair enough. I did asked if they'd ever had any issues with the "death rattle" and they guy said he'd never even heard of the problem. Now I'm really thinking conspiracy.

My dealer is not terribly convenient so I'll have to wait until next month when I take it in for it's first oil change and hope that the sound is re-producible at the time.

 

Model: 2007 MINI Cooper S
Build Date: 08/2007
Miles: happened two times before, but at 12,200 happened badly @ dealer lot
Duration: four minutes continuous run, less with shut off/start cycles
Frequency: once per week
RPM range: Car idles normally, noise occurs throughout the range. If the car is restarted, the noise seems to migrate to the higher RPM range.
Ambient Temp: occurred two times in the summer of 08 and every week so far this January 2009, February, and ongoing.
Oil: MINI dealer oil change. Actually, the oil change service was when the problem got really bad.

Any other relevant information:
Had the "purge procedure" performed per the service letter, which is where the dealer runs the car at 3,000 rpm for 15-minutes. This had no long-term effect though it did solve the problem for a day or two.

Had the cam tensioner replaced 2/21/2009 by Bill Jacobs in Chicago. The rattle did not reoccur until 3/2/2009, a substantial improvement in uptime over the "purge procedure."

The service manager at Bill Jacobs MINI (Chicago, IL) has thus far been great to deal with. He was unaware of this problem until my car presented the symptoms. I have an open PUMA case on this issue per his direction.