It's not carbon build up. My 2008 Mini started this noise with 300 miles on it thats not enough miles for carbon build up. I talked to the service manager at the dealership today after I filled out a poor survey for them. I told him that they are going to get 2 more attempts at fixing it then I was going to get an attorney and lemon law it. He said "so you are not happy with the car" and I told him NO. I have an appointment this Thursday to have it looked at again. He said he was going to contact Mini USA to see what they want to do with the car and would let me know Thursday. It's my opinion that damage is already done to the engine and I think they know they can't fix it, do you think they are considering lemoning it without continuing to try to repair it? If they do lemon law it how does that work? Do they give you the ammout you payed back for the car. Do I have to get a loan for the replacement car? If anyone has been through this please reply. Thanks all

 

u r out of luck i think

 

How am I out of luck? There are laws to protect consumers in the United States.

 

Also have had knock for a while.
07 MCS
12,000 miles - but have had it since about 400 miles.



ONE MORE NOTE-
I have no idea if this has anything to do with it, but last spring, my dad and i went out to try a little experiment with the car. He was trying to show me how to start a stick, without the starter (i.e. rolling the car, pop clutch, etc), and so, we get up to speed, kill the engine, put it in gear, pop clutch, nothing except hard deceleration. So we stop, and now this part was weird, and it may be part of this issue, maybe not, i am no mechanic, and only 17, but we press the button and the engine doesnt turn over, keeps winding for 4 secs until my dad stops. hits the button again, then starts. We just thought it was strange that it wouldnt start right away, but figured it must be the computer all messed up by the movement of the crankshafts and what not without the electronics on. We didnt try again as not to push our luck, but i think the engine would have started from the roll if we had turned the electronics on.
I just figure that the electronics may be connected to both this and the engine knock.

Idk, sorry if this makes me look foolish and out of place.

 

I think that problem has been attributed to the high-pressure fuel line being faulty.

 

Most modern electronic fuel injection cars can't be started this way anymore. The old days you used to be able to turn on the key, get it rolling and pop the clutch and it would start. Not anymore, with the interlocks in the starting system it can't be done. Most owners manuals will tell you not to attempt pull starting a manual transmission car (same as rolling it and popping the clutch).

 

What damage, exactly?

--Dan
Mach V

 

After reading all threads I could find on the issue and posting results several times on this thread, I can confirm that as long as the car has been driven for at least 15 minutes and comes up to temp (by feel from air from vent as the car has no oil or water temp guage) I will have no issues the next time I go to start it. No matter how long is sits, up to 5 days.

My car did not run for over a couple of minutes during the 4 times it happend to me as I would shut it down and wait a bit an restart and issue went away. I have no idea what long term impact is for those that let engine run under the 'diesel' conditions until it resolves itself or if by now running car for at least 15 minutes that next start will be as it should.

So, this is my last post on this topic. I am not going to try to fight Mini on this one. After 1 call to the service manager in San Antonio and 1 call to Mini USA to discuss issue, they both are aware of the issue but gave me zero confidence for any resolution. Life is too short to deal with an auto mfg who continues to produce a known flawed product for years and does not address it. Instead of working myself up over an issue that my wife and I decided that we would unload before warranty is up, I get the most satisfaction from telling others I know around the world to stay away from this car (an S). I just state the facts as we are all aware of and I have experienced first hand. You can probably figure out what computer mfg I work for by looking at my address. Many, many hundred of colleagues around the world and counting! Priceless!

Good luck!
George

 

The tapping noise you hear is the rockers, lifters and camshaft beating against each other. It will cause scaring and premature wear on the engine.

 

Put your money where your mouth is and tear down the head and get some evidence. Until someone actually breaks down the head and gets some sort of proof that damage has occurred, BMW will do nothing about it. Otherwise, I believe it's just noisy lash adjusters.

 

I've been following the Mini2 forum as they seem to have cars going back in recently for possibly another revision of the cam tensioner assembly. One quote noted:

http://www.mini2.com/forum/2nd-gen-f...n-cold-71.html

(Dated Jan 19th)
well my MCS went into the local dealer today, for what they say is a perm. fix to the noisy engine rattle, apparently they have to strip it down somewhat, then take the parts out of the engine, then request the modified new ones from MINI quoting the chasis number etc (so they know this one has been modified) then at the same time look for any signs of internal damage etc....

Hopefully this gentleman will report back with results of his experience and what his local dealer was able to discover (engine condiditon) upon tear down.

Does anyone have part numbers to verify if this is actually a new part?

 

This is kind of like saying that you're not going to quit smoking until you have clear evidence that you have lung cancer.

What makes this tough is that the damage is likely progressive, and a lot of folks are increasingly not willing to risk their $30K investment because the circumstantial evidence is pretty hard to ignore. My guess is that there's not a lot of physical evidence of damage after just a few occurrences of the death rattle. What BMW needs to do is open up an engine that has been living with repeated instances of the death rattle over a long period of time to get the full picture of the impact. My confidence is low -- they haven't even shown that they fully understand the root cause.

From a narrowly-focused business perspective, I can see why BMW appears to be dragging their feet. I'll bet their management is saying the same thing as you are. What they are failing to realize is that there is a growing cadre of folks like GeorgeM (who I fully sympathize with) who have lost faith in them and their product. The numbers are growing, as is evidenced in most of the other MINI forums. Eventually, the negative connotations may actually cut into the size of the population of prospective buyers. That's when you can expect BMW to pay attention -- when there is a direct and traceable impact on their corporate wallet.

 

After almost a year I had the same issue again This time the temprature was 10°F. Again I went to the dealership and they cleaned the throttle body and changed the oil. But the friendly service advisor also admitted that MINI still does not have a fix

 

What ever gets through this.

I'm of the opinion that a noise like that has got to be doing some damage. Maybe it will take a long time to show up. Like when the warranty has expired. Wonder if BMW/MINI is just sitting back & hoping the engines expire after 50,000 miles.

 

That’s my opinion as well; it’s got to be doing some kind of damage. When I dropped off my car at the dealer tonight the service manager would not tell me what Mini USA had to say exactly, but did say an engineer would be there in the morning to look at it with the tech. I was kind of aggravated when the service manager asked me to start the car so he could hear the sound it is making. He knows that it only happens when the engine is cold so I think he was just trying to make me angry. He also talked about the only engine failures he has seen with Mini's are when they are abused like being downshifted 6th gear to second gear. Well I'll post back the results when they call me.

 

Add me to the growing group of noisy MINIs. I own two '07 "S" models - his and hers (long story). Mine is an early 07 production (Jan 07), and has the cold start rattle if the car has sat for over 24 hours without a start. The rattle clears after 1-2 minutes or driving a mile or two. No problems the rest of the day. My wife's MINI is a mid-year model, and doesn't have the problem at all.

I had the timing chain tensioner replaced last month, but that did not solve the problem. The PDX MINI dealer freely admits they do not have a solution in hand.

We live on the Oregon coast in a mild maritime environment, so cold temps are not a factor. The cars have been serviced to factory specs as needed. No other starting problems noted. The only consistancy I can see is a lengthly (over 24 hours) sit between starts.

 

Model: R56S 6spd.
Build date: ??
Miles: 130 miles.
Duration: 30-90 seconds
Frequency: Happened only twice.
RPM range: Idle at start, RPMs dropped below 1000
Ambient temp: 55°F-65°F
Oil: OE

specific issue. i was parked on a slight slope for 2-3 hours. got in the car and started it, shuddered and eventually stalled. restarted and tried gentle revving. stalled. restarted tried putting it in drive, pressed accelerator peddle and the car wouldn't move. turned the car off. restarted and got it going, though considerably under powered. yellow engine light came on.

parked in a safer spot and called mini service. waited 5-10 minutes and restarted and everything was fine.

drove home, waited for a couple of hours went outside and restarted the car, shuddering engine and check engine light came on again


// edit

got a call from my mini service advisor and was told it was probably the gas cap not being on tight enough (really?)
did it again this morning. took several start-ups to get it going
did it again about 2 1/2 hours later. this time it didn't really get better. low horsepower, weird gear shifting and some "chugging". called from the road and said "nope - this is getting worse"

i'm driving a loaner. 4 days after i bought it and i'm in a loaner. ugh. at least it's a mini - clubman. not an 's' though - i miss the extra hp, but it's neat getting to try out the clubman for when we have kids.

 

2008 clubman s built Aug 08.

I've got the issue, and it seems to happen regardless of driving previously more than 15 minutes. The other (cold) morning, I started up after driving 1.5 hours the night before - and it was worse than ever.

Before I would get the symptoms between 1200 and 1800 rpm. That day the rattle was present up to 2500 rpm. I'd say the noise is from the right side of the engine bay (and very noticible inside the car).

My strategy is to let the car warm up for a while before driving it, which I don't think can hurt. I think it is worse to drive the car with the rattle.

I hope a fix is found soon!

 

I was told today that there is nothing wrong with my Mini and no replacement car would be offered because it would have the same sounds and it is "NORMAL". I am going to go pick it up Saturday and and they want me to start it for the tech and service manager to they can tell me that a normal sound, what a joke. I really wish i had never bought this car. I think we need to get together and file a class action suit, it's the only way Mini is going to take this seriously.

 

Our 2009 miniS is on for the 3rd time for this issue and it has happened when the temp is under 20 degrees but not every time. Service manger told me there was a known problem and he would call the mini rep and see if a fix is ready. After reading all of the posts here I am guessing he was just buying time and we will get a call to pick up the car saying it's fine. Very frustrating! Maybe we should all contact Mini on th same day and inundate them with complaints.

 

my MCS has been at the deaer since 14 Jan to fix this issue.they say the part reqd is the new updated belt tensioner - problem is its on back order . I've been put in a rental and its sucks..........

 

y're right, because then the engine is under load, whereas under idle it is not.

 

Yes, it's the normal sound of an engine operating without oil.

 

That is the sad truth. No oil in the top end on some cold starts. At least the bearings are getting oil, one hopes.

 

I do think driving the car a short distance and shutting it off make it worse. My car only gets driven 3/4 mile each way to work and home so it doesn't always get warmed up completely, but it still should not make the rattling noise. I told the dealer I would video tape it when it makes the noise so they could here it.