Model: 2009 MCS
Build Date: 9/08
Miles:2200
Duration:30 second to a minute
Frequency: has only happened twice (that I know of)
RPM range: 850 - 1700
Ambient Temp: below freezing
Oil: still the same oil from the factory

Any other relevant information: It happened once on my way to work in the morning. on a cold morning on a level tarmac surface. The second time it happened was at the dealer the car is in for service right now because the anti theft system goes off for no reason, It happened their, I walking back in , got a tech and he asked me to depress my clutch all the way, that did not change it I did it a second time it went away. So I hope that it happens again so they can fix all the problems so far

PS the second time the "noise" happened I was again on Level Tarmac.

 

Model: 2007 MCS
Build Date: 7/07
Miles: 20100
Duration: 30 second to 2 minutes
Frequency: Twice in first Fall 2007 ownership, now 4-6 times Fall/Winter 2008
RPM range: 850 - 1700
Ambient Temp: 30-50
Oil: still the same oil from the factory

Let's face it: with the number of "remedies" dealerships and MINI has been willing to try and the fact that folks with mid & even late 2008 builds (even 9/08!!) are having the same problem, I cannot believe that BMW/MINI even knows for certain what is causing the problem. This has been around since last Fall on MotoringFile, etc and yet they are still producing vehicles with the problem. If they truly knew the problem and the fix, folks like the one above with a 9/08 build wouldnt have this problem.

I told my SA about it and to their credit they searched the database. They said it was due to a possible problem with air in the oil line (or whatever). They flushed it but the probem continues as of late:

What works for me: Stop engine, wait 5 seconds & restart. Usually clears on the first restart. Sometimes it takes 2.

As for the level, mine usually occurs on level parking. HOWEVER, some of the worst knocking has occurred after I have jacked up front wheels to clean them a time or two. This even caused it to knock during the summer in 90+ heat. So I dont totally buy the whole "oil warming up" explanation. Also, I installed my roof rack the other day and it took a lot of pulling / pushing & rocking of the car. Starting up that night in the cold was completely scary. It took 5 restarts and the knocking lasted for 3 minutes straight at RPMs all the way up to 3000 (I couldnt go any further!)

Just my 2 cents. The only thing we can really do is have the SA document the problem on your vehicle. I dont think they even know the exact cause yet.

 

Model: 2008 R56 S w/JCW tuning kit
Build Date: 05/08
Miles: 6,300
Duration: 2-3
Frequency: 50/50 in sub freezing temps
RPM range: initial start up from idle up to 3000rpm
Ambient Temp: 5-25
[FONT=Times New Roman][SIZE=3] [/SIZE][/FONT]
[SIZE=3][FONT=Times New Roman]Monday 12/8/08 Noise was heard on startup this morning and lasted approximately 2-3 minutes of light driving. The car had been sitting on the street at level ground for two days. Previous drive lasted 5 minutes. This is not the first time I have heard the diesel clattering noise but the sound used to be infrequent and as temperatures have dropped (23 degrees this morning with previous day temps down to the single digits) it has become almost a 50/50 chance of hearing it if the car has been sitting overnight. I talked to the SA when I was last at the dealer a few weeks ago. He mentioned the tensioning belt issue but that I had the newer part on already. I am scheduled to take the car in to International Autos in West Allis, WI to fix a driver’s window problem on Wednesday. The car will be there at least overnight so I’m hoping the car makes the noise while they have it. [/FONT][/SIZE]

 

Today I experienced - for the first time - the dreaded startup clatter on my 07 MCS with 18 K miles. The temperature at startup was about 26 F, and the dieseling sound continued for about 20 seconds.

The startup clatter is certainly disconcerting and a departure from normal engine operation. However, I have yet to see any credible evidence that this behavior actually causes engine damage. Is anyone aware of documented evidence to this effect?

In any case I would greatly prefer that the startup clatter not happen again. I have just received a small (50Watt) heating pad I ordered which attaches to the bottom of the oil pan. I am planning to attach this to the MINI's oil sump as soon as I can figure out where best to route and attach the electrical cord and plug. (Ideas, anyone?) Since this strange startup behavior seems to be mostly a cold-weather phenomenon, I am hoping that it can be avoided by keeping the engine oil warm. (BTW I normally run Mobil 1 0W-40, but at the moment the engine is full of MINI-branded Castrol 5W-30 from the dealer's free one-year service.)

 

I think you should plug it in in the kitchen and route the cord out the back door to the garage.

 

Diploman I use 0w40 in my 325is and my 928 and love the stuff. But Mini/BMW recommends 5w30 Castrol.... I think I would go with 0w30 Castrol and not the 0w 40 Mobil1.
Mobil1 does make a 0w30, but I was told it does not have the higher raiting that the BMW recommended Castrol does. just my 2 cents.

I posted a linky to a great write-up on this problem earler on in this thread, check it out.

Thanks for all the posts we ALL need to keep this problem in the spot light and demand a fix or we will all end up with cars that are no longer under warranty with bad valve trains..!!

PS: I now have 14,000 miles

 

update. now my car does this daily, provided it has sat for a few hours. doesn't matter what the outside temp is (it has done it even when the temp outside was in the high 90s). it lasts several minutes, including when i drive off. i now have 19,575 miles on my car. i have had all the mini recommended fixes. it just gets worse and worse.

 

Has anyone spoken to a lemon law or class attorney? I spoke to my local dealer yesterday and the SA said he'll document it, but he doesn't think BMW plans to do anything about it.

 

I'm sitting in The dealership today while they do the timing chain/tensioner modification... I'll tell you how it goes but as I don't drive the car on a daily basis it may be a while..

Like others moving it from the garage to the drive and leaving it a while seems to provoke the problem, I'll try it this weekend.

Terry

 

[quote=sequence;2571110]Im waiting for the first 2009 owner to chime in with this issue, and I hope it's not me.

My 09 MCS (built 9/11/08) has the noise you all are talking about. Looks like they have not figured out a fix for this yet.

 

Model: 2009 Clubman S
Build Date: Sept 09
Miles: 2100
Duration: 10 Seconds. Kill engine, restart and it is fine.
Fequency: Two times in last 400 miles
RPM Range: 700
Temp: Between 60 and 70 degrees F
Oil: I changed the oil at 1500 myself, using Mini 5w30

Any other relevant info:

I just kill the motor and soon as I hear it, wait about 5 seconds and restart. It runs fine after that. Does that work for anyone else? I won't let the engine run see to how long it takes for the noise to go away.

George

 

Model: 2008 Clubman S
Build Date: July 08
Miles: 5300
Duration: less than a minute
Fequency: Two times in last 5 days (driven daily)
RPM Range: seems worse around 1500-2000
Temp: around 40-55 degrees F
Oil: as from the factory

The comments from George about killing the engine, waiting and then restarting fixing the problem provide some interesting information and I will certainly try this the next time it happens. It would be interesting to hear from others if the restart technique solves the problem also.

One interesting fact that sticks out for me after reading all of the information is that the problem has been reported to re-occur after a couple of months even after a complete new engine has been installed. The only components that were probably not replaced along with the new engine that could be causing the problem would be some external sensor or the computer itself. I could imagine that killing the engine and restarting as George suggests would re-initialize the sensor and computer and the problem goes away.

Also I find it strange that MINI has not solved the problem even after engines have been sent in for testing and analysis. To me that would suggest that the root cause of the problem is not the engine itself.

 

Davidbob,

After reading all the information I could find on this subject I have tried something over the last 4 days and it appears (hopefully) to have resolved the issue. Mine has just started doing this so hopefully it will not get progressivly worse as others have stated has happened them.

While shutting down and restarting does do the trick for me, I can also reproduce the knocking symptoms by doing the following:

1. Start engine when cold and let it idle for a couple of minutes. Engine runs fine.
2. Let car sit over night (12 hrs).
3. Start car next morning and engine sounds like it wants to be a diesel.

I can get rid of the problem by:

1. Start engine when cold and drive it for at least 10 minutes (or until air coming from heater is as hot as it is going to get).
2. Let car sit overnight (12 hrs).
3. Start car next morning and it runs fine.

I have done this three times now with no issues.

My guess (and it is just a SWAG based on what I have read) is that if you have an S that is predispositioned to have this problem and the last time the engine ran and did not come up to temperature that the next time it is started after sitting for an extended period the problem appears.

I would give it a try as it can't hurt and may help until Mini ever comes up with a fix. Not holding my breath on this one unless we all file complaints to the NTHSB for the safety issue of a stalling engine during these cold start episodes.

Will post back in a week or so as my wife and I are not going to run the car anymore for any short trips during this experiment.

Thanks,
George

 

Model: Cooper S 6 sp.
Build Date: 07/08
Miles: 2,600
Duration: ~3 minutes
Frequency: just started as we have moved to a cold climate
RPM range: 1-2,500 rpm
Ambient Temp: 35-42 deg. F.
Oil: factory fill 5-30W castrol

Any other relevant information:

I was hoping this would not be an issue, as we were living on the MS Gulf Coast when we purchased the car, but we just moved to Southern IN, and the car rattles horribly at start up. Tried waiting 5 seconds and then re-starting, but to no avail. Will try 0-30W castrol syntec, and see if it helps. Car doesn't have a garage slot yet, which might also help. Hope there is a resolution from BMW for this as it is dis-heartening.

 

Model: cooper s 6 speed
Build Date:07
Miles:20000 kms
Duration:3-5 mins
Frequency: (times per month/week) every day since dec 24th(i live in canada)
RPM range: 2000 and over
Ambient Temp: 1 c and below
Oil: stock

Any other relevant information : this sucks, mini should be ashamed

 

Happened again last night. SOCAL has been cold at night.. and this happened for the 3rd time. After the car warmed up (5 min) the sound was gone. It is obviously some flaw in the design.... damn oil pump issue... They should have put a 1.8L corolla engine and turbo that.. that thing will never have an issue,

 

It was caused by them using flat-top pistons . The carbon would build up on the pistons allowing the valves to touch the carbon . It only happened when the V-Twin motor was cold. After the valves chipped away the carbon the clatter was gone.
Absolutly no damage is caused except the noise freaks out the person starting the engine. It sounds terrible.
Harly Davidson fixed the problem on a need to repair problem. They installed new pistons with a cut-out for the valve. Problem solved.
Does anyone know if the Mini engine uses flat-top pistons? If so do they have a cut-out for the valves?
My guess is this is the problom and they are going to do the same repair as Harley did only when someone complains enough.
This is my guess, I don't know what else can cause something like this because if it was mechenical it would be constant. If electrical it would show up on the computer.
Ronnie948

 

Lets all make a point of calling our dealers again this week. The more we complain the better chance of getting a fix.

 

All,

Since my last post I have tried the following:

Let the car sit for over 28 hrs after running the car for over 15 minutes.
Result on next start..started fine!

Let the car sit for over 72 hrs after running the car for over 15 minutes.
Result on next start..started fine!

After start sitting for 72 hrs cold and run for 15 minutes, started car after sitting overnight for 10 hrs (started fine) to back it out of garage to wash it and returned to garage to sit for over 8 hours. Guess what, engine want to come apart again!

It seems to me that if this POS engine for those predispositioned with the problem has not had a chance to come up to temp and then sits for a while the issue will appear. I can not speak for those who I have read who continue to let the engine run during this problem as from the sound of metal on metal I have no idea what is wearing down. Each time (4) mine has presented the problem I shutdown the engine, wait a bit, and restart and the sound pretty much goes away.

Who whould of thought that in 2009 this type of engine would be produced! Last BMW experience for me! Sorry, but the sound of metal on metal that this engine emintates during this issues is more than I want to deal with past warranty since dealer tells me this is normal yet can not tell me what is the source of the issue! Glad I did not option out the car other than the S upgrade. Will sell this turd before warranty is up!

Good luck!
George

 

My 08 Clubman has made the start-up noise since I purchased it in June (warm weather) after it sate for 12 hrs or more. If you see on my profile photos, I park on a downward garde in my drive way. Well since the weather changed I have actually been parking in my non-heated, level garage and sometimes just infront of the garage door. (also level). Since joining NAM, I actually set up me camera several times to record the noise on the level driveway or the level garage; It has started up quietly everytime! Yesterday, I parked on the hill again, (nose down as usual) started it up and it was as loud as ever! (maybe even louder!)

 

Model: 2007 Cooper S hatchback
Build Date: September 2007
Miles: 12,500 (give or take)
Duration: 5 minutes if only sitting idle, 15-30 seconds if I start driving immediately.
Frequency: (times per month/week) every single time when temp is below ~45 and the car is not warm from recent use. Also occurs frequently but not every time in spring summer & fall.
RPM range: 800-1300
Ambient Temp: under 40 f.
Oil: stock oil from mini.

Any other relevant information: for me, it occurs on any slope or level surface when the car is cold.

 

Perhaps ronnie948 is on to something, and it's some sort of carbon buildup... I wonder what kind of fuel people are using. After all, not all Super Unleadeds are equal.

Sorry to specualate in this thread, but the link to the discussion thread seems broken.

 

Monograma,

Mabye Ronnie is on to something, mabye not, I am a DBA, not a mechanical engineer, but I do have a lot of common sense. I am skeptical since wifes Vette and Crossfire run fine on 93 octance from same Shell station, running the exact same routes. From Vette forums, Shell is about the top tier gas there is.

Since last post I can confirm that those early with predispostioned problem of cold start issue who let engine run until noise it wants to come apart (2 to 3 minutes from what I can tell) will have no issues if the last time the car was run it was able to come up to full temp (read my other posts on how I encountered the issue and quickly resolved it). I have tested by sitting the car for over 3, then 4, then 5 days and it starts fine as long as it was run for at least 15 minutes prior.

So great, I have a car that will start and run as it should as long as it was driven for at least 15 minutes during prior run to come up to temp where I live. Does not fit past autos we have owned. I have no idea what the long term issues can be for those who continue to let the engine run to resolve itself.

Can not believe BWM is not aware of the root cause as I am a non mechanical engineer, just read all posts on this thread and came up with a solution, although it is not one I will live past warranty. It only happend 4 times to my car but if you get the chance to experience the sound of metal on metal during this issue (open oil fill cap to hear full experience!!!) you will understand that this is not normal at all.

I have no idea if somone who has continued to run the engine under this state if the wear and tear from the sound will now be resolved if they run their car until it comes up to full temp (which since there is no water or oil temp guage in the 2009 Clubmans you are SOL and will just have to experiement where you live as to what is proper temp of engine. Since it is a mild winter here I went by the feel of the air from vents).

Good Luck!
George

 

Model: 09 MCS
Build Date: Not sure on build date but was delivered 12/23/08
Miles: 498
Duration: 5 mins
Frequency: (times per month/week) 1st occurrence
RPM range: near stalling - 1700 rpm
Ambient Temp: -14 degrees F
Oil: Original Factory Mini Oil

Any other relevant information:
Car wouldn't go past 12 mphs when engine rpm was fluctuating. After about 5 minutes, engine idle stabilized but engine light stayed on and was able to drive car normally. Dropping the car off to dealership on Monday.

 

I had a piece of carbon break off inside my Toyota's 22RE engine at about 230K, a loud CRUNCH. I thought the motor was a goner, the sound was terrible, the engine ran like it was missing on all 4 cylinders, and yes it freaked me out TSTL. But I crept into a lot, let it idle, and after about a minute all was fine.