I just dropped my car at Southbay MINI here in socal. The tech told me he has replaced tensioning belt or something. He says that he is finding "old" parts that BMW replaced on new MINI randomly and causing this noise issue. He says that when it losens or slackens, it doesnt pump up enough oil to lubricate therefore creates that sound until things get warmed up.

Seems like he knows what he has to do on my MINI. And he loves modifying it like me!! We talked briefly about suspension mod and wheels.

Ill let you guys know when i get my car back.

 

You obviously didn't get the broken naviation system they are selling/ripping people off with!!

 

So last year my car did it once, but never again. But last night it was cold again

Model: Cooper S (coupe)
Build Date: Feb 2007
Miles: 26000
Duration: 2-3 minutes
Frequency: (times per month/week) rare, once last year and this is the first time since. (10 months ago approx)
RPM range: idle - 2000?
Ambient Temp: 34'ish but over night temps were below freezing
Oil: Whatever mini puts in. (i hate how that sounds)

Video of issue
http://flickr.com/photos/willsisti/2984448695/

 

According to MINI, the problem is not with the HLAs, but with the cam chain tensioner, and the sound is from the chain hitting the guides. At least, that is what they are claiming, and the fix they are working on is centered around the tensioner being the source of the trouble.

 

This sounds like a similar problem to the first gen Eclipse turbo I had. Would periodically get some grinding noise from the engine. Turned out is was the tensioner not working all the time and let the timing belt flap against the casing.

Some chain and belt tensioners are merely spring loaded. Others are more complicated as they actually use oil pressure to provide the tension. Not sure which the MINI has.

 

I would only hope it is that simple, however I have read other posts where they have changed the tensioner and with-in a short time the HLA's starving for oil once more issue came back.

Please believe me, this noise is from the valve's, and having changed a few spring and or oil (hydraulic) dampened tensioners (not on Minis) they were on Porsche, BMW & Jag’s, and none of the bad one’s EVER made this kind of sound.

I would think a loose (un-tensioned) timing belt would certainly produce poor performance and possible valve damage but not Valve slap as that is a different mechanism and I don’t see how the two would be related (oil pressure yes, but not a loose timing belt).
There is a great write up on the Mi Mini clubs thread.
Please read.


http://www.michiganmini.org/forum/index.php?topic=3115.15


Thank you for you comments.. !

 

I read that thread some time ago, and there has been much discussion on that forum, with some very intelligent input. I have also read the discussions and experiences of members on this and the MINI2 forums. Members have had their chain tensioner replaced, only to have the sound return. Members have had the entire valve train replaced, only to have the sound return. Members have even had the entire engine replaced, only to have the sound return. Most recently there are some members with chain tensioner replacements who have not had the sound return (at least, not yet). The official word from MINI/BMW is as follows:

If the problem turns out to be a design flaw in the valves we will be waiting a very long time for a fix as MINI/BMW have obviously come to a different conclusion.

 

r56 just a cooper, build date/03 08, miles 10,857, duration first 5 min,frequency every day,rpm range 900 up, ambient temp does't mater,oil 5w 30

 

Just did it today for the first time
2008 MCSa build of 07/08 with 2,100 miles
NYC avg. temps. today 47-50 degrees.
**Drove around for about 5 minutes total this morning before parking it.
**Parked from 10 a.m. until 5 p.m. then it happened upon startup for about 2/3 minutes. Sounded very bad.

 

But it's not "purely an acoustic issue" when the car sputters, spurts and practically stalls as I try to back out of the garage. At least in my case anyway.

I'm certainly no mechanic or expert, but if this was a chain issue, wouldn't it happen more often or at more random times? Like I said, I can get the car to do it every time. And I also can avoid the issue too by avoiding all short bursts of starting and stopping the car. Would seem to me a chain problem would not be influenced by that. Or maybe these are two different issues entirely? I dunno. All I know is that they need a real fix.

 

I've had my "post-May-build" knock verified, several times. They were nice enough to bleed the hydraulic tensioner the first time, then replace it the second time, all to no avail. My little MINI doesn't usually sit long enough for this to be a regular problem, but with the first cold snaps finally blowing through San Francisco, she started clattering again. I took her in for the third time to get this fixed and this was their reply:

"COMPLETED SEVERAL COLD START CHECKS AND WAS UNABLE TO CONFIRM ANY EXCESSIVE KNOCKING NOISE. MADE SURE OIL LEVEL IS UP TO SPEC AND PERFORMED BLEEDING PROCEDURE TO ELIMINATE ANY AIR IN THE OIL THAT WOULD HINDER FLOW OF OIL THROUGHOUT THE ENGINE/OIL PUMP.

NO FURTHER CORRECTION NEEDED AT THIS TIME. NO PROBLEMS FOUND. RECOMMEND CUSTOMER MONITOR."

Seriously? What a croc. I have an established problem with a work history, and I got an oil change. When I asked about a more permanent solution, I was told that they were still working on it which, I guess, backs up the Puma statement.

 

Spectral G, basically what is happening is this, the timing chain tensioner (which controls the valves) is powered by the engine oil's hydraulic pressure. Due to it's location and design, the oil drains out of it when its been sitting for an extended period of time, especially at an angle like in a driveway. I guess its coming out of the same hole that it pumps into.

Anyway, when the temperature's are hot, the oil flows freely throughout the engine, pumps up the tensioner within a few revolutions, and you never hear it. When the temps drop, the oil gets thicker and doesn't flow to all the nooks and crannies easilly, thereby starving the tensioner of the oil it needs to put tension on the timing chain. Clatter-city! In a couple of minutes of running, the engine starts warming up, oil flows better, gets into the tensioner assembly, pumps it up, and the knocking goes away. I'm not sure whats taking them so long to fix this since it's such a simple problem.

I've rebuilt enough engines in my time to be concerned about the long-term effects of this problem. A slapping timing chain wears away at the walls of the chamber it sits in. A loose chain also means that the timing of the valves is off which causes the engine to run rough. Luckilly, it's not bad enough to cause the valves to be off so much as to slap against the piston heads, causing catastrophic damage. Either way, I'd really like MINI to just replace my damned tensioner with a nice, strong, spring-loaded one. They work forever and don't have these kinds of problems!

 

I wanted to do my own experiment on the theory that short engine run with extended rest afterwards causes loud engine chatter the next time engine is started.

Day 1 night: before I went to sleep, I started the engine (cold) and ran it for less than 10 seconds in the garage.
Day 2 morning: started the engine after it's been cold for over 8 hours, and within 3 seconds, the loud chatter began. I immediately shut the engine off, waited 15 seconds before I restarted the engine. Noise is gone. Went about my day.
Day 2 night: repeated the procedure from day 1 night.
Day 3 morning: started the engine and there's chatter noise upon initial couple of seconds, but not as bad as the noise from previous morning. The noise dissipated a little, but I turned off the engine anyway and waited few seconds. Restarted the engine and no chatter.

So for now, if I encounter engine chatter again, I'm going to shut the engine off and restart it after waiting for a few seconds. This doesn't fix the original problem, but until MINI has a permanent fix, it's a viable remedy for temporarily eliminating the noise.

 

I wondered about the timing being off because of the slack in the chain, but when I asked the question on Mini2 I was corrected by a couple of seemingly knowlegable members that the timing would not be affected. One of the answers was as follows:

Of course, these members could be wrong, but it does seem to explain how MINI/BMW can claim there is no damage being done.

 

I agree, sounds like the tensioner is pulling on the slack-side of the chain, which also makes sense. But I'm still concerned with the rubbing issue. I had a Honda Enduro Motorcycle engine of mine wear into it's side walls because the chain was too loose. Of, course this is nowhere near as bad as that, but still...

 

Nothing like what the earlier posts describe; what I'm dealing with is:

36+K US miles since taking delivery April 2007; with the onset of cooler weather here in the US Midwest my 2007 S has developed a severe cold-start problem.

2 weeks ago dealer replaced 2 ignition coils, to no good effect. It's back at the dealer today & I ALMOST couldn't get it to run this morning at all... took 17 tries before it would run by itself long enough for me to reverse out of my driveway. This MINI lives outside. Never seen the inside of a garage except at the dealer's. Was fine last winter, save for one brief spell in February where an iced-up air metering valve syndrome was evident.

Runs awful when it runs, sounds like it's firing on maybe one or two cylinders tops, then it slowly dies. Yellow engine outline lamp is lit when it's warmed up enough to finally be drive-able. No weird noises though, just runs terrible until it's got a few degrees of warmth to it.

Once it's warmed up it runs OK. Mileage isn't too bad (31+ by the OBC) & I've burned PB Gold 99% of the fuel it's burned since taking delivery.

Anyone have similar experience to share?

 

Wanted to report mine problem also.
I've got an 07 with about 20,000 miles. Had the clatter a few times last fall and none durring the summer. Now it's back and a little worse. Took it in yesterday and they said they are going to bleed the oil system as described in a service bullitin.

 

Model: 2007 R56 S
Build Date: 10/07
Miles: 15,430
Duration: 3-5 mins
Frequency: 2 times in 2 weeks and once this past summer
RPM range: initial start up from idle up to 3000-4000 rpm
Ambient Temp: 35-45
Oil: full and changed 2 days ago

Any other relevant information:
Car is always garaged and all three occurances were on initial start up and idle after car sitting overnight. The sound is just awful and I'm very disappointed. It sounds like the engine is going to blow up. MINI must stand up and take care of this issue.

 

Im waiting for the first 2009 owner to chime in with this issue, and I hope it's not me.

My SA, however, said the cold start problems they've dealt with have all been 07s and early 08 builds--inc a couple of their 08 justacooper demos bulit last Jan--and was told that if this happens let him know immediately. And he knew nothing about any redesigned parts, and Dec 08 is nigh...

For those that have it, I wonder if a block heater would help??

 

Model: 2007 R56 S
Build Date: Early 07
Miles: 46,000
Duration: 1-2 mins
Frequency: 2-3 times a week for the last year
RPM range: 0-3,000 rpm
Ambient Temp: 14-70F
Oil: 5W30 Castrol Syntec Level: Full

Any other relevant information:
My car does this about every other morning. I live in Atlanta and it doesn't exactly get cold here. I've had this issue occur during the middle of July when the mornings are in the 70's.

 

My 08 Clubman S has been loud on ALL cold start-ups since I bought the vehicle in June. I told my dealer that it sounds like an old VW bug when I start up. Naturally when it was in their shop they couldn’t hear it. (B.S.!)
Thanks to all for putting this together, I will be contacting my dealer for a replacement engine. (after BMW accepts the fact that there is a problem)

 

My '08 continues to have an issue, this morning it lasted a few longer than I wanted to wait, but I did... just let it idle until it cleared ~4 min's. it was 26 deg F.
Last night I had driven it about 7 miles before parking it so I would not call that a short run like a driveway move I had done in the past.
The car was parked in a 40 deg F. garage on level ground.
Thanks for comments, we need a fix!!!!

 

I think I just heard the knocking when I started up this morning.
I have an 09 that I picked up in early October with 1800 miles on it. It just got it's first oil change last night. Mobil 1 - (0w-30)

It wasn't very loud, just sounded a little like a diesel. It ran a little rough for the first two accelerations, but not bad. And I think it was quiet after about 3 minutes. It was 33 degrees this morning. I may have heard the sound before but didn't pay much attention because it was very quiet.

I'm new to NAM and happy to stumble across these posts. I'm not real concerned about this problem but I will be keeping a close eye on it. And will definately bring it to the dealer if it gets any worse. At the very least I'll mention it when I am in for my first oil change if it persists. I'll keep posting here with any updates. I think that these type of threads are a great idea.

I have always been a Detroit Big 3 type of car guy... Detroit is were I grew up. A big rumbl'n V8 is like music to my ears. But you just can't beat the perfmormance vs. gas mileage of a Mini. So far I absolutely love this car! It's the first car I have owned that was not made in Detroit. But I have no regrets so far. This car is a blast!

That being said... I don't think that anyone should consider this type of problem not a problem. It shouldn't be expected from brand new car in this price range. I fully intend to take advantage of the warranty while I'm still covered. I have plenty of time so I'm not concerned and again, don't consider this a big issue. I have always thought that cars need a minute to warm up, especially before any spirited driving!

Keep up the good work posters... Thanks for all the info...These threads are good stuff!

 

Model: MCS
Build Date: 5/2008
Miles: 4500
Duration: 1-4 minutes
Frequency: Quite often now, 50% of mornings.
RPM range: Idle to 2600
Ambient Temp: Ambient temps running in the 40's.
Oil: Mobile1 5w30 (Changed at 1500 miles.)

Any other relevant information: It seems to be happening far more often now. I'm not sure if this is temp related now that it's cool in the northeast or due to numerous short run times repositioning in the garage. (Stored in an unheated, level and dry garage.) I have also noticed this after washing.

 

I experienced this again for the first time in almost a year. Yesterday when the temps were in the high 20's my MINI made the dieseling sound. I didn't have time for it to warm up so I drove on. The engine continued to make the dieseling sound for a minute or more.

Currently I am running Castrol 5w-40 A3/B3 BMW LL-01 oil with 4500 miles since the oil change. I am do for an oil change by Mini in approx 2500 miles which they will use the Mini 5w-30 oil. I would almost prefer they use the 0w-30 Castrol that I used at the beginning of the year that seemed to silence the cold start issue.