Yep, the test you ran is what happens to me as well. It will make the engine rattle every time doing that sequence. I've tried shutting the engine off after rev'ing it up to 3000 rpms and it seemed fine (though I didn't try to do it when I knew the engine rattle was forthcoming.)

Let us know how your second test goes.

 

How did you handle the engine rev'ing? Did you:

• Rev engine to 3000, let it drop back down, then shut off car
• Rev engine to 3000, then press the Stop button to shut off car

I'm not keen on doing option 2 in case that does something screwy to the engine, shutting off the motor in mid-cycle

How long did you rev it for?

 

I did option 2 since that is how I interpreted the approach from the post by Sequence. We'd probably need his feedback to better understand his work around.

 

I think option 2 is from old school. If you do that with and engine with a carb, then the momentum of the engine will pump unburned gas into the cylinders. I'm not sure what this was going to help, but that was the idea. I don't think it works the same way with fuel injection. When you hit the stop button, doesn't it turn off the fuel pump? I have no idea how this would effect the cold start problem.

 

Hi guys, it's me Option 2 is what Ive used, and guess what? On sat I washed and detailed my car, after 3 hours it cooled down, then I started it and moved it around my parking space and shut it down--but I did not use the >rev to 3K then shut down< method, which had been working very well despite sub-15 degree AMs and not driving the car for 3-4 days. (BTW I talked to my SA about this and he said there's no problem in doing so.)

anyway the car sat level all day yesterday (rain) and this AM I go out (about 30 degrees) and the rattle reappeared, but not as near as loud as the first time 1500 miles ago. Sounded like a diesel warming up, and the rattle lasted a bit longer, about one minute as opposed to 20 seconds the first time. Idled smooth. No lights or codes thrown.

So that's the update for now. patience.

 

Option 2. And dont worry about doing something screwy* to yr engine; just go to 2000-2500K if that makes U feel better--just gradually press the gas and when it gets to 2500-3 hit the stop button. The idea behind this is to have VANOs deliver more oil under pressure to the piston tensioner and hydraulic lash adjusters, which seem to have a drain out issue if not parked level. However I think this only works for cars that are new or fairly new to the problem, like mine.

*Cant be any screwier than this mysterious rattle issue.

 

I came up with a work around last weekend (not a solution).

My garage and driveway are completely flat. What I did when I washed Spike was to push him onto the driveway, give him a bath, then push him back into the garage. (Gotta remember to release handbreak first )

Obviously this is not a solution to the greater problem at hand, but for me it was really easy and it doesn't initiate the 'death rattle' problem unecessarily.

This doesn't let Mini off the hook, but for me its a temporary workaround.

 

I had this issue. Had MINI flat bed it in. They diagnosed a collapsed tensioner and replaced it. The part my Parts guy said was 20 bucks with an hour labor install for those of you concerned with out of warranty replacements of this issue.

I put up a youtube vid of a cold start, even thought its sunny, trust me, its cold!

After the replacement, engine sounds like new, no more rattle and certainly more piece of mind...until it happens again, which it better not!

Here's my vid link from my mobileme account.

http://gallery.me.com/sacenatiempo#100189

 

No matter what your dealers tell you, its a timing chain issue. BMW is notorious for this, even my dad had this issue with his 87 323i. If you still have your warranty, bring it in, even if you have aftermarket parts like me, the parts are not whats causing it and neither is washing your car . Make sure to document it for the future in case it happens again...if not, its not a HUGE detriment to the engine, I didnt even throw an CELs, but not something you should be driving with while its happening. Get it fixed or replace the tensioner!

 

Could it be that the latest tensioner actually works?? I have seen a report on other forums (MINI2) that this third version tensioner (only available in the last month or so) may actually work...

A few months ago I had a modified timing chain tensioner installed for this problem. I must say that it helped a little in that the rattle was not quite as loud, however IMHO It was more frequent. Last week I was in for a routine service and complained again. They installed yet another "modified" tensioner. When I asked if this one was the same but they said that it was not, it was the latest version. This weekend I "tested it" by starting for a min or so, and parking it on my drive nose slightly down for the rest of the day, (this has always provoked the rattle before) when I started it up no rattle...

Part number was 11-31-7-601-809, word is that it became available this month.

Terry

 

Terry, that's awesome news! I'd like to get your opinion after perhaps a couple of weeks of use to see if this problem is now in fact nailed. Thanks for letting us all know.

 

Terry,

Make sure you check out the other thread... https://www.northamericanmotoring.co...hatter-42.html

The latest fix revolves around replacing a number of parts... my single part fix rattled right in the dealers lot when I picked it up...

 

Well this is still proving true, I just got mine replaced 2 weeks ago and I just took it to the track running high rpms and high speeds, no issues at all.

 

I looked at the BMW tech site this weekend and the current fix tells them to make a measurement of the timing chain. If its above 68mm all the parts get replaced if not only the tensioner. According to the service document mine was 66mm so only the tensioner was replaced. My car only has 8000 miles or so so hopefully its OK..

Terry

 

Cooper S Manual
Build date: June '07
Miles: 11,000
Duration: 5 minutes
Frequency: almost always when temp is near freezing or lower
RPM: 1000 to 2200
Ambient temp: near freezing
Oil: changed 3 times by BMW

Other problems with the car include a clutch rattle, steering wheel stitching coming apart, rattling sun roof (MINI service attempted to fix it at least 4 or 5 times), arm rest replaced, a rattle in the engine bay I can't identify when going over bumps, sun roof started acting up when venting and closing (might just need to be lubed), each time MINI service changed the oil (3 times so far) they overfilled it by a quart, I didn't catch it the first time, didn't even think to check so i put 1500 miles on the car, I brought the car in to service once I noticed oil on top of the engine near the spark plugs, MINI service replaced the engine gasket, dind't however drain the excess oil. Auto headlights initially dind't work, was impossible to turn lights on during the day or off at night, this was fixed. Auto wipers sometimes don't activate right away after the car stops at a red light and then starts going even though the windshield is flooded with water. I'm probably forgetting some other things.

 

Cooper S Manual JCW
Build date: October 2007
Miles: 15,000
Duration: Continuous < 2800 RPM
Frequency: Initially infrequently; today, continuous < 2800 RPM
RPM: < 2800 RPM
Ambient temp: 50degF
Oil: Mobil1 5W30, changed 4x since new

1st incident was last spring (April, 2008) but went away after 15-30 sec max. Has happened infrequently since. Did not happen on cold start this morning, but after a 1 hour drive, park, and restart, the rattle was present and returned anytime the Rs dropped below 2800 RPM. Have yet to come across a thread post on NAM + elsewhere where this was the case. Ran great over two days at WGI two weeks ago.

 

The OP should update with this info from motoringfile:

http://www.motoringfile.com/2009/05/...d-start-issue/

It's now been finally realized! Thankfully, this is what they changed on mine last month.

 

Thanks for the link, Stephen. I just sent it to the SA at Keeler MINI in Latham, NY, where my MINI is enroute on a flatbed as we speak. I hope that they are up to date on this, and that the parts are available. I know already that I am looking at a week minimum...

 

I think I may have had the dreaded cold start chatter this morning. Last night I decided to check my oil which required moving the Mini about 2 feet first. So I start him up, back up 2feet and turn him off. I check the oil, add about 0.25qt, and then start the engine again to move the Mini forward 2ft into the original position. No problems all is good.

This morning I start the engine and immediatly hear this ticking sound i've never heard before. I pull out of the garage and turn onto the street and start to accelerate. The exhaust note now sounds like i'm driving a Honda with a fart-machine exhaust, but this goes away after I shift into 3rd and never came back again after the initial engine warm-up. The ticking noise disapeared as well.

Can anybody with the cold start issue relate to this?

 

Cooper S Automatic
Build date: October 2007
Miles: 25,000
Duration: Continuous < 1800 RPM
Frequency: 2nd time since new
RPM: < stock idle
Ambient temp: 58 deg F
Oil: Dealer changed every 5k miles

2nd Time the car has chattered on me, the first time was at about 13k and hasn't happened until last week when it did it for the 2nd time. Man was that loud!

 

Are U sure it's not the direct injection ticking? The cold start "rattle" is more of a metallic metal-on-metal BANGBANGBANG that's much louder and more obnoxious than our usually noisy engines make at startup. Also, at least with mine, the engine idles smooth, no weird exhaust sound, no codes or lites thrown. I think yr problem may be different.

 

Welcome to the club. You've perfectly described the dreaded "Cold Start Death Rattle". Over a relatively short time, your timing chain, chain guides, rails, and crankshaft sprocket will accumulate accelerated wear to beyond BMW limits. The timing chain rattle occurs for that first minute or two until the chain tensioner piston finally gets enough oil pressure to properly tension the chain. Several forum experts recommend being gentle on the rpms until the noise clears, usually within a mile or two of driving.

The repair is outlined in BMW document SIM-11-02-07, posted in various places on this forum. Call your dealership, and have them record your complaint in your file. If they give any grief about it, find another dealer. This is a well documented problem caused by a defective engine component. Fortunately, it's a free warranty fix, but they will need your car for a few days.

 

As a side note to how worried you should be about the death rattle, I drove over 3,000-miles with the rattle at about 80% of my starts. After you've experienced your rattle for a while, the timing components wear to the point where they are simply out of specification and you have a rattle hot or cold.

I also did not observe the advice to employ low RPMs during the rattle. MINI was giving me a hard time about whether or not I really had a problem (January 09 before the fix was out), so I thought I would accelerate the issue for the purposes of consensus building.

When I finally got back into the MINI dealer for the fix that works, my timing chain was way out of specification. They replaced the camshaft sprocket, the tensioner, the guides, the pulleys, the chain, everything.

Do not think you have to shut your car down until the issue is resolved. While you certainly do not want to drive any more than normal and you do want to get to the dealer as soon as is reasonable, don't be afraid to use your car. That is the purpose of owning it.

It is your responsibility to notify MINI of the problem and comply with their need of the car for service. The faulty components and consequential damages are MINI's liability.

The death rattle is an intimidating noise, but you need not fear it. MINI has a fix and will implement it for you. This is really no drama now that the fix is available.

 

jmbd7h3, I may have missed your other post about this, but it sounds like you got the latest fix and all is fine? Thanks!

 

I've been driving on the latest fix the end of March or thereabouts. All is well.

I am quite relieved to have my motor working well again. For a while I was only getting 24/25 mpg because the valve timing was wrong. Now I'm getting a solid 33-ish.