This must be one of the same incompetent clowns who told us the timing chain rattle was "normal" . For the record, my two '07 turbo MCSs with a total 50,000 miles between them have never back-fired -ever. I don't see any forum threads either here or on the Brit site MINI2 concerning that problem either.

Find a new dealer. Those idiots don't deserve your patronage.

 

Well I'm happy to report that Mini Yaletown got Spike all fixed up. They did the full replacement of all the parts in SI M 11 02 07, even though that's technically a US service bulletin (here in Canada we're liberal but not as progressive, if you know what I mean ). On Monday I gave Spike a good bath (and of course finished with Hydro), he like that .

Did the usual short-drive out from garage, wash, short-drive back into garage. Tuesday night I started up the car and no more rattle. Yea

Kudos to Mini Yaletown for fixing Spike up, even without duplicating the rattle.

 

I had Louise into the dealer this week and got her back on Saturday. She is much quieter and smoother now.

SIM 11-02-07 was accomplished without question. I love my MINI service department!

 

Model:09
Build Date:OCT.08
Miles:5400
Duration:30secs-1.00 min
Frequency: (times per month/week) 2xs/week
RPM range:1000-1500
Ambient Temp:47f-63f
Oil:Factory

Any other relevant information: No problems except for the startup rattle. I owned an 06 MCS for 3 years with no problems. I am very disappointed!!!!!.I hope MINI has the ***** to correct this problem.

 

Well I think I just had my first encounter this morning... I'm at 1600 miles.

I fired up the car and heard a clackity-clack... turned off the radio, and it was from the engine compartment... Seemed to be originating from in front of the passenger side footwell. The outside temp showed 64 degrees Farenheit..

I backed it out and as I revved, the clackity-clack went faster.. I drove approx. 2 blocks and it was gone...

It was 64 degrees accoring to the cars outside temp. It was parked in the garage on a level surface. It had not been driven at all yesterday and only breif, light driving a day prior. It di rain quite a bit last night though...

Any ideas? I thought it was a little unusual to have it happen when it was not cold at all outside...

Where to go from here to get it fixed?

 

You have perfectly described the symptoms of a defective timing chain tensioner. The term "cold start' refers to a start-up after the engine has cooled to ambient temperature (usually overnight or 5+ hours).

The BMW-authorized repair tech order is SIM-11-02-07, posted elsewhere on this forum. In general, your car will get a new re-designed timing chain tensioner (a $20 part) and the noise will go away. If you delay taking it into the dealership, others have reported excessive damage to the chain, tensioner face, rails, guides, and crankshaft sprocket in as few as 4,000 miles . This is a very expensive warranty repair (and two days of shop time), so they would really prefer you bring it in sooner than later. Either repair costs you nothing other than some down time on the car, is fully covered by the warranty, and cures the problem. Enjoy the car!

 

So cold start chatter and Timing blet tensioner are the same thing?

I drove it to work and when I fired it up for lunch, it was running just fine.

I called earlier this morning and the earliest they could fit me in was june 26th. I needed a loaner car though so the earliest I could get in was july the 6th.

Should I go ahead and take it in right away to avoid any damage to my car? I told them that I thought it was the cold start chatter... They said they would have to keep it overnight, start it in the morning, and get the noise to duplicate... Should I tell them that it's the timing chain tensioner or will they be able to diagnose it?

 

The "cold start chatter/death rattle, etc" is indeed caused by a poorly designed timing chain tensioner hydraulic piston not "pushing" hard enough against the timing chain during start-up after a long shut-down. It takes about 2 minutes of engine run time for the defective piston to "purge" unwanted air ingested during the shut-down period. While the engine is running with a loose timing chain, the chain slack wave is whanging against rails, guides, and sprockets, causing greatly accelerated component wear, and a lot of noise. A delay of a few days or a week or two won't make that much difference - just be gentle on the rpms until the noise stops in a minute or two. Then let 'er rip!

SIM-11-02-07 requires the dealership to verify the timing chain rattle is indeed the culprit prior to warranty repairs. They need to park the car overnight, and start it up. Ask them to park it on a ramp nose-down, as the resultant engine block tilt seems to greatly increase the occurance of the tensioner piston collapse and resultant chain rattle.

Just tell them you are familiar with the issue, and have a copy of SIM-11-02-07 in hand, or ask the SA to pull it up on his computer and show you what is to be done. If your timing chain and guides are not excessively worn, the new tensioner can be installed and signed off in an hour or so. The "full monty" repair takes several days with all the approvals and paperwork involved. The good news here is that this fix does indeed solve the problem.

 

Thanks!


Is there a printout somewhere that has everything necessary for the SIM-11-02-07 ?

 

http://www.w2ec.com/Mini_Chain_Tensioner.pdf

Here's a link to an excellent tutorial on timing chain tensioner design issues by an engineer/professor who designs valve train systems for a living, and helped design the '02-06 Tritec MINI engine:
http://www.michiganmini.org/forum/index.php?topic=3115.msg88780#msg88780

 

Well, dang. I'm having the same issue. At first I freaked out cause I thought I was out of warranty (had 36,000 mi stuck in my head), but im good cause im at 44k and 50k is the cut off. Anyways, I mentioned the whole issue to Ryan at Bob Smith Mini Dealership in Calabasas and appartently they are replacing some parts. I have yet to have a chance to call them, but I'm due to pick up the car today. I had all the symptoms here as well and this had just started up a couple weeks ago and progressively got worse. Sounded like a metal on metal slap coming from the passenger side engine bay in the mornings and even when i went to lunch. I had noticed the power from the engine was not as it was when I was in first and second gear as well.. it would lurch forward. Ah well. Ill post back more when I talk to the dealership.


*** Update***

Well I called in and yep, they are replacing the chain tensioner. Funny thing is when I 'verified' it was covered under warranty he acted like he was doing me a favor saying they will cover it this one time..hah.

 

I called my dealer about my appt next week as the temps around here look to be getting up into the high 80's and 90's... Summer is officially here.

My understanding is that the chatter doesn't generally sound off when it's really warm. I asked them about it, and (of course) they say they have to duplicate the noise in order to do the repair. I could understand it if this wasn't a common problem, but it's a well-known problem that EVERYONE associated with MINI is aware of either as am employee or customer.

If it's brought up, I don't see why they would put up such a fuss about it when MINI will cover it for them.

Furthermore, why would I make it up? Why on earth would anyone be eager to have their entire engine disassembled and then put back together again voluntarily? If it ain't broke, don't fix it.... Do they really think I want to give them my car for several days and have them tear the motor completely apart?

 

I just took mine in this week. They replaced the chain tensioner with part number 11-31-7-597-895. I just seen in this post that the part number of mine is not the same as in the bulletin. So, was mine really fixed, or did they use an old tensioner.

 

My SA, who had been quiet about this whole issue, admitted yesterday that the tensioner replacements they have done have not worked, the rattling was still there. I didnt ask him if the work was done unde SIM 11-02-07. He seemed frustrated--but at least he admitted there is a problem.

 

I had the chatter again 2 days in a row over the weekend up in Estes Park, CO which gets into the 50's at night and is over 9000 feet above sea level. When I got it back to Broomfield where it was much lower elevation and higher temps, I haven't heard it again.

I had an appt to get them to take the car in, but they said they had to duplicate the noise. Very little chance of that happening in the middle of summer. My friend passed away unexpectedly back home in Arkansas and I had to leave town the same day I was supposed to take the car in. I chose not to reschedule as they won't be able to recreate it until the weather gets cooler. they said they couldn't accept video/audio of the chatter as evidence.

 

TRY A DIFFERENT DEALER OR CALL MINI USA
ive been told they dont need to hear it now
they know what to look for

 

Not really any other dealers around Colorado all are 400 to 500 miles away. f I hear it again, I'm going to call and lean on them to fix it regardless of whether or not they actually hear it in person.

Seriously... why would I make it up? Do they think that I would intentionally make this up just to get them to perform the service? Why would anyone want to have their entire engine removed and disassembled when there was never any chatter to begin with? What do I stand to gain from that other than having a engine that's running fine taken apart and peiced back together by some disgruntled mechanic ready to get off work and head to the bars? That would be like going in and having surgery to have a valve placed in my heart simply because my father had heart problems and there was a chance I could have them too...

This is a known problem and rather than wiating for catastrophic engine problems, why not fix it right away? It's defective... Bite the bullet and make it right for your loyal customers. It's getting to the point now that it's potentially going to become a factory recall.

 

i hear ya mine go's in july 31st
for the same problem my sa told me i didnt have to duplicate it
that there is a bulletin out regarding this.

good luck to you.

and hopefully happy motoring

 

The term "Cold Start" refers to an engine start-up after the engine has cooled to ambient temperature, not "cold" per se. This usually means the car has to sit for over 5-6 hours.

The root cause of this debacle is a defective hydraulic piston that normally maintains pressure against the timing chain guide. Decades ago, tensioners used an old-fashioned spring that provided adequate chain tension during initial engine start until oil pressure built up and the hydraulic "muscle" took over. This el cheapo 3rd-world sourced tensioner in the MINI uses internal seals vice a spring (cheaper) to hold the piston extended against the chain for overnight shutdowns. Unfortunately, the seals are not up to the task, and the piston may "collapse" back to a retracted position. It takes up to 2 minutes of engine run time to purge air to re-position the piston against the chain tensioner - during which you get to listen to that gawd-awful rattle.

I and many others have noticed if you park your car in a significant nose-low attitude overnight, it almost always causes the chain rattle if the tensioner piston is indeed defective. The engine is tilted, which must aggravate the piston collapse. Give it a try, and if it reliably causes the rattle, tell the dealer to do the same. Worked for me.

 

Oldguy knows what he's talking about.

Here's a post from a couple of months back on how to duplicate the rattle, even in warm temps https://www.northamericanmotoring.co...5-post200.html

 

I had my car in the shop this week, took 5 hours for repair. They replaced the chain tensioner and gasket ring. So far so good.

 

I had the cold start noise on rare occasions. I couldn't reproduce it on demand, even with steep nose-down parking overnight. In spite of the difficulty in reproducing the problem, I set up an appointment online with MINI of Mountain View. In the note with the appointment I mentioned SIM-11-02-07. Later I called to change the appointment date. My SA asked about the symptom and I said that it sounded like a chain being dragged across metal, and it changed with rpm. He said they hadn't seen the problem, but it was the description he had gotten from other dealers who had seen quite a few of them. He was very friendly about the whole thing, but did say they would have to reproduce the problem. I assumed this was going to be a waste of time, but at least I would have established that I had experienced the problem during warranty period.

Took the car in on a Monday. They gave me an MCa Clubman as a loaner. They were able to reproduce the problem, installed a new tensioner, and my car was ready Thursday afternoon. Haven't heard the rattle since.

 

ive not had the noise for about 5K but then each time I shut off the engine (when long enuf to go cold) I rev it to 3K and press the >stop< button. this method seems to prevent the tensioner, or whatever the problem part is, from aerating, if that's the problem. even parked nose down for a week it seems to work. we'll see this winter.

mr bueno we have the same dealer, they really seemed to be in denial about this problem, at least with 09s, but Im sensing a recent shift in attitudes. did they fix yr car OK?

On a related note, WPguy's vacuum pump on his early 07 build recently seized on him, causing catastrophic engine failure. however, he was very happy for having the foresight to buy RS's xtended vehicle warranty, only $200 deduc. for an $8-9K repair.

but i tell ya guys, if I have to consider an extended vehicle warranty, maybe Im in the wrong vehicle....

 

does that mean mini that are built after July 09 will use the new tensioner part?
or will they keep using the cheap part in factory and replace the defective one on a need to repair basis to keep cost down???

 

There's been a lot of speculation posted on this forum, but no one seems to know for sure.