While researching whether to purchase a MCS I found this on the web regarding the cold start problem. I guess they are addressing the issue...

http://www.motoringfile.com/2010/01/...problem-again/

If I decide to get a 2010 MCS I will wait until after March.

 

Model: 2008 R56 Mini Cooper S
Build Date: May 2008
Miles: around 24,500 miles
Duration: 1-2 minutes
Frequency: since last fall (so 50 times in a year)
RPM range: more noticeable just below 2000 rpm
Ambient Temp: 45 F - 22 F
Oil: Mobil 1
Any other relevant information:
Sometimes, 30F and didn't get the sound (same parking spot, angle, etc). Dealer did a great service replacing timing chain, and parts (total of 13 items), I've been driving it for a couple of weeks and no more diesel sound.

 

2003 MINI COOPER S Technical Service Bulletin

HOME » M » MINI » COOPER S » 2003 » 10025903

NHTSA Item Number:10025903
Service Bulletin #:SI M21-03-08
Replacement #: Vehicle/Equipment
Make:MINI Vehicle/Eqipment Model:COOPER S
Mfg Component Code:102000 POWER TRAIN:MANUAL TRANSMISSION
Date of Bulletin:2008-06-01
Date Added:2008-09-15

Summary:MINI- R5 & R56 (COOPER; COOPER S) WITH GETRAG 6 SPEED MANUAL TRANSMISSION: COMPLAINT OF AN INTERMITTENT NO-CRANK, NO START SITUATION. THE CLUTCH SWITCH MODULE HAS NOT BEEN SECURED IN THE CORRECT POSITION ON THE CLUTCH MASTER CYLINDER



2003 MINI COOPER S Technical Service Bulletin

HOME » M » MINI » COOPER S » 2003 » 10024513

NHTSA Item Number:10024513
Service Bulletin #:SI M11 02 07
Replacement #: Vehicle/Equipment Make:MINI Vehicle/Eqipment
Model:COOPER S Model
Mfg Component Code:061000 ENGINE AND ENGINE COOLING:ENGINE
Date of Bulletin:2008-01-01
Date Added:2008-04-21

Summary:RATTLE NOISE FROM ENGINE. FROM START OF PRODUCTION UP TO APRIL 11, 2007. WITH N14 ENGINE. *NJ

 

I'm ready to see how this works out.

 

I'm not sure I understand how a slightly longer timing chain is going to solve the problem. Previously they shortened the chain tensioner, and I had taken my car in for that part. Now it's the entire timing chain and so I've taken my car back in.

 

Well we are at 15 signatures for the petition. I know there are a lot more of you out there than that!

 

Please also present your information to the government recall site. There is a place to file a safety complaint.

http://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/

 

Still rattle free with the 0w-30 mobil oil. Spain's winters are very light though. That may have something to do with it.

Just a reminder, i was experiencing cold start rattle almost everyday before i change the oil. Just food for thought.

 

I have been following this issue with much interest. Living in California where only a few nights dip into the lower 30's I am having difficulty determining if I have the problem or not. On some colder mornings I do get a different engine noise at start up, but more significantly as I drive off. After a couple of blocks it goes away. I have no real way to know if this is THE rattle or if it is likely to do the engine any permanent damage. How loud does the rattle need to be? In my case it is definitely noticeable from the cockpit, but not so loud as to be really alarming.

At this point I will likely have to wait until next winter to take the care in to MINI of Mountain View if I even suspect there is a problem, and then I will have to be very adept at timing the trip to the dealer to have the temperature cold enough for them to detect it. Advice?

 

Sounds exactly like the cold start rattle.

 

Skippy, is there an ODI number you have after filing the complaint?

 

Just wanted to add my experience to the database:

08 MCS (February 2008 build date)
~33k miles
Ambient temps low teens to mid 30s F.
Noticed the following sound twice last winter. This sound started becoming a regular occurence this winter during morning startups. The week right before I brought her in to the dealer I heard this 4 out of 7 days in the week. No special conditions (like parked on a downward slope or startup then quick shutdown the day prior), just parked on a level driveway every night:



Dealer was able to recreate the sound and applied the attached fix (I was informed by them that they first replaced only the tensioner, but it did not completely eliminated the rattle so they went ahead and applied the full fix. The timing chain and tensioner are the latest versions).

Results: So far, so good, but only ~800 miles under the belt. Rattling has been completely eliminated, startup sounds like it is the middle of summer. If anything changes I will of course keep the clan updated.

Later,
Drew

 

FYI!! My "Death Rattle" noise began at 20K and 2 days before my 2yr servicing. With morning lows ~45deg in Feb. in these parts, the key to hearing the cold start noise is that the car MUST sit for 10-12hrs to duplicate the noise. Best thing to do is get a mechanic's stethoscope and put the probe directly on the timing chain cover. If you hear anything other than a steady whirring, you've got a problem! Just listening with the hood open could cause confusion due to the DFI "dieseling" effect. By the time you hear the rattle on start-up from inside the car with the windows up, you could be looking at serious trouble.

BTW, getting my dealer to believe me was a major hassle as they would only let the car sit for 2-3hrs!! It's not that they don't know about the problem. BMW issued a service bulletin on this "issue" in Nov. 2007!!! Kinda makes you wonder if that's why dealers consistently put in 5qts of oil instead of 4.4qts on every oil change and then say it's "no problem" when you complain about it. Believe it or not, the repair kit for the tensioner was listed as "misc. body parts" on the work sheet!! UNBELIEVABLE!!!

 

My '08 MCS w/ dealer installed JCW package had the rattle last winter; the dealer said it was 'normal operation.'
Two weeks ago, with 9100 miles on the car the same dealer replaced the timing chain plus 10 other parts (guide rails, tensioners, etc.) So far so good but the temps have been moderate; the problem was most pronounced when the temp was in the 20s or below. I will monitor this.
Has the problem caused damage or premature wear to the engine?
My MINI enthusiasm has waned.....

 

well, my mechanic's rev-to-3k at shutdown method isnt working anymore...

first had the problem about a year ago, only 4 months and 3000 miles in on my 09 with Tune Kit, but the knocking was violent, like hammer on metal, coming from the passenger side, and was there at idle and slight rev to 1500. scared the living daylites outta me and some poor lady walking in front of my car gone after a couple minutes. no codes, no cels, no funky exhaust. Car was parked nose-down when shut down conventionally. ambient temps 45+F. Reported it to my dealer.

happened again about a month and 500 miles later, 40 degrees F, car parked level in my old garport, shut down conventionally. Knocking was less violent, more like a diesel, passenger side, at idle and slight rev. No codes, cels, FE. gone 30 seconds later. reported it to dealer.

Talked with my Toyota mech about it while 86 PU was getting checked out for smog test and he said his wife's Mitsu eclipse had the same problem. He thought that, due to faulty part design, not enough oil was getting to the tensioners and hydraulic (valve) lash adjusters at shutdown. They fill with air, and become pnuematic until the cold engine heats up and metals expand and already tight tolerances are back to normal.

He suggested when the engine was going to go dead-cold 6+ hours to rev the engine to 3k, hold it, then shut down, as way to deliver enough oil to these parts so they dont fill with air bubbles. He also suggested overfilling the oil about 1/4-1/3 quart, as PSA-BMW may have under-spec'd the engine's oil capacity (as he claims Mitsu did for that HLA-eqipped engine.)

when he aksed me if Coopers have the problem I said no, and told him those non-turbo'd Princes have Valvetronic. "hmm," was his reply.

Well, lo and behold, after I started doing that guess what? Not a single CE knock rattle or otherwise for 6700 miles and about a year--even parked nose down at the airport for a week in sub-freezing weather upon return I thought the problem was licked through adding a little extra oil and revving the motor. Even when the 'ship gave me my free oil change last June they overfilled it 1/2 quart....

then last fall poor old Toyota truck had to have its first full top end job at 273K so I know what a T/C about to expire sounds like. guides, tensioner, were all shot in pieces, in the oil pan, and chain was running and stretching on its own on sprockets with worn teeth. Quiet at idle, but rev it and it sounded like bbs in a coffee can.... Mechanic asked me how the S was doing, and I said fine. No problems at all.

so all's well until last thurs. With 10,700 on Syds odo, I now park in an unheated garage. About 30F inside. I start the car, get the DI whirr, and it's idling smooth like a typical noisy DI engine. But the second I give it gas, it sounds like a diesel Wabbit a friend of mine once had, again from the passenger side, bambambam until I let off the gas, then all's smooth, no banging noise. Basically let the engine warm up before I drive away, and it goes away, all day.

then this AM, same thing, warmer temps (45F) just like last time. no codes, no cels, nor funky exhaust. My dealer is real close so I go by talk to SA and describe problem. Tech who has worked on both of my MINIs is there also. He asked me if I had the system checked, tensioner, chain, etc and I said no. SA sets up service date. good thing is they've worked on quite a few of these with still perfect success rates, so they're ready (the new parts are working well, and one repair 10K ago is doing fine--they follow this up pretty closely). I even offered to duplicate the noise with my 24 bit HHR, and they said no, not neccessary. Just bring it in. We WILL fix it.

Car actually sounded like truck did, Ok at idle, but rev the engine and there it is....

So I guess it all caught up to me as poor new Syd goes in friday for his diagnosis while Im out of town for a week. However, Im going to check his oil tonite to see if it's down (the car doesnt use any).

Wouldnt THAT be something if indeed this entire issue's root cause is PSA-BMW pulling a Mitsu, and under-speccing the turbo Prince's oil capacity and delivery needs? (maybe coupled with BMW relying on 3rd world countries with little QC to manufacture their already-sketchy oem parts)

 

Had the same thing done: chain tensioner + timing chain with exact part numbers you posted. Let's see if this makes it through the next fall & winter. Had an oil change done as well and that alone makes the noise less frequent, plus it's warmer in NJ now.

 

No this is my first time ever dealing with this. Is that something that needs to be done? Can you guide me a bit if your knowledgeable about the filing with them?

 

Also we now have over 30 signature on the recall thanks guys!! Keep up the work file with the gov and sign the petition.

 

You may also call in the trouble ticket. Searching through the gov site it looks like the complaints are really picking up speed.

(800) 424-9153

Information needed

Vehicles

• Model Year
• Make
• Model
• Component*
• Vehicle Identification Number (VIN) (Optional, but very important)
  Found on registration or insurance card.

* Component -- Part or system of concern

 

Skippy, I have no knowledge about the process. I just remember being on the site and was wondering what an ODI number was

 

No problem. A quick call into them and they told me that just to go here.
https://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/ivoq/Complaint.cfm

And click begin form. It will walk you through the process. They also noted having you vin handy helps.

 

Done Confirmation number (ODI Number) is: 10318231

 

 

Our R57S is at the dealer now for this. I'll update this posting as events transpire.

Background: 09 R57S Auto. Now at 7400 miles. Build date May 2009, purchased July 2009. My wife is the primary driver and really pussyfoots it. At home the car is always garaged above 40F (semi-heated). We first noticed the rattle after the car had sat unused for three weeks over Xmas. It did it a second time five weeks later. Two weeks ago was the third time, and a charm! Took almost a minute to go away. Now I can barely hear a little bit of the ghostly 'chain dragging' sound at idle that wasn't there two months ago.
....
Update 3/11 17:00 Service advisor calls, tells me "unable to reproduce problem" and my VIN is not within the recall VIN range. BMW requires them to reproduce problem. I commiserate, but I also advise them to keep the car overnight, parked nose-down on a steep incline. I further advise them that BMW has issued yet another PUMA on the issue as of later January. ... This isn't going as well as hoped. I suspect we'll have to make it break in order to get it fixed. OK... no problem. We'll break it.
....
Update 3/12 10:30 Service advisor calls and tells me they replaced the timing tensioner. Says the tensioner was weaker than a new one, so they swapped it out. Had them change oil and filter as well (my dime).

 

As long as they can reproduce it at the dealership, they should be able to fix it by doing the chain tensioner and timing chain replacement.