Drivetrain 231.9WHP with new big valve head. Stock cam and ECU.
6th Gear
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 5,149
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Not that I think that JCW knows everything... but... JCW felt the need to have 380cc injectors when the car was only putting down 175whp...
you can only run injectors at more than 80% duty cycle for only so long before one of them just gives up on life and then you have a mariokart like situation...
you can only run injectors at more than 80% duty cycle for only so long before one of them just gives up on life and then you have a mariokart like situation...
6th Gear
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,816
Likes: 2
From: New Jersey
The formulas make a lot of assumptions about efficiency or brake specific fuel consumption. If you've made some serious changes to your engine, it can effect how you calculate the values.
The other way to get it done is to change the fuel pressure. I think a 10% bump in pressure nets you 10% more capacity but Im not positive on that.
Dont know anything about the JCW injector. Is the spray pattern the same?
The other way to get it done is to change the fuel pressure. I think a 10% bump in pressure nets you 10% more capacity but Im not positive on that.
Dont know anything about the JCW injector. Is the spray pattern the same?
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 2,438
Likes: 1
From: Rancho Santa Margarita
Spider, no need to speculate, just call the tuner and he will give you the answers. These numbers you see were with "stock" injectors.
Longboard
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 2,438
Likes: 1
From: Rancho Santa Margarita
The formulas make a lot of assumptions about efficiency or brake specific fuel consumption. If you've made some serious changes to your engine, it can effect how you calculate the values.
The other way to get it done is to change the fuel pressure. I think a 10% bump in pressure nets you 10% more capacity but Im not positive on that.
Dont know anything about the JCW injector. Is the spray pattern the same?
The other way to get it done is to change the fuel pressure. I think a 10% bump in pressure nets you 10% more capacity but Im not positive on that.
Dont know anything about the JCW injector. Is the spray pattern the same?
Longboard
Turbius Maximus
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 4,416
Likes: 0
From: Infinity and beyond
Formulas are great guide lines... and they will always help in the proccess of such performance mods... but If Hubie and I limited ourselves to math and not accual testing we wouldnt have done the things we have with the MINI... or any car for that matter... Do you really think we thought it possible to go Tens on a stock motor.... Math would say that's unpossible... LOL....
so Longboard... get some proper injectors dang it! I wanns see 250 WHP from the M45!!!
so Longboard... get some proper injectors dang it! I wanns see 250 WHP from the M45!!!
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 2,438
Likes: 1
From: Rancho Santa Margarita
I never expected the numbers we got. I new the head was good but I really underestimated it. Next week should be really fun.
Longboard
Turbius Maximus
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 4,416
Likes: 0
From: Infinity and beyond
Hey... I hear that! LOL... if you do it I'll be doin cart wheels!
Last edited by Tüls; Mar 8, 2007 at 10:06 AM.
Banned
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 119
Likes: 0
From: Tehachapi, CA
I'm so glad that you dyno'd this with a stock cam and stock software in place before going further. This puts yet another nail in the "supercharged engines don't benefit from head modifications" coffin. I'll be pointing to el d's work the next time someone gives me that B.S.
6th Gear
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 5,149
Likes: 0
Formulas are great guide lines... and they will always help in the proccess of such performance mods... but If Hubie and I limited ourselves to math and not accual testing we wouldnt have done the things we have with the MINI... or any car for that matter... Do you really think we thought it possible to go Tens on a stock motor.... Math would say that's unpossible... LOL....
so Longboard... get some proper injectors dang it! I wanns see 250 WHP from the M45!!!
so Longboard... get some proper injectors dang it! I wanns see 250 WHP from the M45!!!
6th Gear
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 1,710
Likes: 1
From: Northampton MA
I'm so glad that you dyno'd this with a stock cam and stock software in place before going further. This puts yet another nail in the "supercharged engines don't benefit from head modifications" coffin. I'll be pointing to el d's work the next time someone gives me that B.S.
Who says that? And what planet are they on? There's no internal combustion engine built that won't benifit from a more efficent head.
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 2,438
Likes: 1
From: Rancho Santa Margarita
Last edited by Longboard Mini; Nov 3, 2008 at 07:20 PM.
6th Gear
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 1,111
Likes: 0
From: MINIapolis
mmmm. Any more details on the plans with it? IE straightback, or keeping the stock battery location? Or splitting into two at the rear a la some of the other recent designs...?
I'm thinking about relocating the battery one of these days. Straightback seems so much easier / the better option.
I'm thinking about relocating the battery one of these days. Straightback seems so much easier / the better option.
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 2,438
Likes: 1
From: Rancho Santa Margarita
mmmm. Any more details on the plans with it? IE straightback, or keeping the stock battery location? Or splitting into two at the rear a la some of the other recent designs...?
I'm thinking about relocating the battery one of these days. Straightback seems so much easier / the better option.
I'm thinking about relocating the battery one of these days. Straightback seems so much easier / the better option.
Longboard
PS: Its not going to please the wife.
Will there be a wife pleasing version?
A head with bigger valves is the like having a cam with a longer duration. There's always a big gain with the head. It's the first thing you need to make any mod work to their potential.
Most, if not all, OE heads are pretty conservative. A good comparison would be a SB Dart to an SB OE V8 head. Then compare the valves. There is some power to be had with just the valves. I use to cut & radius the valves on the backside & make them as thin as they could stand, effectively making a larger opening (like a cam only more lift from the backside of the valve ).
The stock injectors, no suprise - they should run out of snott. 380s should work but my guess is larger. I know this tunner has a well thought out plan, with as much time spent as the rest of the components, for the final tune on Longboards car.
All Longboard needs to think about is traction.
Most, if not all, OE heads are pretty conservative. A good comparison would be a SB Dart to an SB OE V8 head. Then compare the valves. There is some power to be had with just the valves. I use to cut & radius the valves on the backside & make them as thin as they could stand, effectively making a larger opening (like a cam only more lift from the backside of the valve ).
The stock injectors, no suprise - they should run out of snott. 380s should work but my guess is larger. I know this tunner has a well thought out plan, with as much time spent as the rest of the components, for the final tune on Longboards car.
All Longboard needs to think about is traction.
Not that I think that JCW knows everything... but... JCW felt the need to have 380cc injectors when the car was only putting down 175whp...
you can only run injectors at more than 80% duty cycle for only so long before one of them just gives up on life and then you have a mariokart like situation...
you can only run injectors at more than 80% duty cycle for only so long before one of them just gives up on life and then you have a mariokart like situation...
3rd Gear
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 261
Likes: 0
From: Bay Area, CA
Ok so in summary we still have no detail as to who is helping produce this head, or what costs are going to be. We have theories but nothing solidified. Is there anyway that you could divulge the tuner name?
Also I am interested in that muffler as I use a muffler like that on my car right now and I would like to know who makes that. I will be happy to share with you through a PM what my muffler is and sound clips if you would like.
Thanks
Also I am interested in that muffler as I use a muffler like that on my car right now and I would like to know who makes that. I will be happy to share with you through a PM what my muffler is and sound clips if you would like.
Thanks
Everyone knows...
just no one can post. If you want the details, pm me your e-mail address and I'll get you in touch with him. It's a hassle, but that's the way it is here on NAM with regard to this guy.....
Also, if you read the thread carefully, there are hints all over the place....
Matt
Also, if you read the thread carefully, there are hints all over the place....
Matt
