The look that gives you much satisfaction....

 

LOL I dunno if his jaw was on the floor... but mine was....

 

My car is not that fast but I can telll you that many people get surprised.....Tuls you live at a whole different level (low bows) "I am not worthy"

 

i remember hearing a story from ryephile about keeping pace with a zo6 on the track. that must have been quite surprising for the corvette driver!

 

Maybe it's just me, then. I wonder what the M62 would do when coupled with the TurboKompressor, head, throttle body and free-flowing exhaust. I guess that I'll have enough power when I can break the tires loose in 4th gear.

 

I've been following this thread since I first spoke to Dave on the phone some months back (and was offered a beta kit that somehow didn't materialize, but that's another topic altogether). If I can play devil's advocate for a minute.....all we've heard is the good. Since Eaton specs the M62 for larger motors, my inclination is to think there's more parasitic loss on the 1.6L from turning such a big blower. Does drivability = stock in this respect?

 

It has been a while since I have spent much time with a bone stock car but the driveability is IMO excellent...... compared to the modified cars I have driven including mine before the kit there is another level going on here..... please understand if you want the really big numbers turbo is the way to go..... this kit makes the engine feel much bigger.... passing cars in 6th gear on the interstate is a slight roll on of the throttle..... the acceleration in 5th is more like what you feel in 3rd..... now all of this is very subjective but having driven my car before which was quite modified and now there is a huge difference..... the torque is what you notice the most......

I have contacted Don at precision about getting a rev limit increase only MTH which should be very interesting for peak whp

Again, I am in Atlanta and if you are interested I will get together with you to give a you a demo of the feel of the car....... then you can make up your mind..... I will not let people drve the car..... I hope you understand... but you can get a very good feel from a ride..... PM me if you are interested.....

 

Spider since no one wants to reveal any premature numbers can you answer this question. I know there are many "variables" in this question but with all your bolt-ons plus the M62 do you think you are in the same power area as some of the stage one twin charge kits that are available?

The reason I ask is when I read threads from fellas that have just installed the TC kits their reactions are "WOW, what a kit in the pants" and such....your reaction seems to be limited to "the car is fun".

Seann

 

I think a $ figure comparsion would be useful as well:
SpyderX-level engine M62 dollars compared to TC stock dollars, or built-engine TC dollars.

most of the enthusiasm in this thread is due to The SpyderX mania but that does need to be brought into perspective.

 

No.... I don't think I am in the TC range...... and it is a kick in the pants..... people need to ride in the car and get a feel for what this power is like.....and then decide..... as far as the $...... I'm not sure that all of my bolt ons are necessary... that is what is being looked at now...... there is one particularly strong car being tested and it will be interesting to find out what it does.....

 

See post 64 on this thread https://www.northamericanmotoring.co...t=78761&page=3

Thats a rough price comparison of a highly modded car with a M62 such as SpiderX versus the cost of the SPI TC kit. I believe the TC route was close to $4000 cheaper (just parts no labour for either) and from what Spider just said...the TC will give more power.

Seann

 

for big power you tend to use larger turbos, and that increases the jeckel and hyde personality switch when "on boost" but based on the efficiencies of ways to generate boost, will always be the path to biggest power.

The M45 is borderline for the Mini. It's pretty much at it's limit on a stock S, but we squeeze a bit more out, but like many have found, getting it to flow much more than a JCW runs into the wall of thermal efficiencies pretty hard.

The M62 may be a bit "large" for a stock car from a dealer, but is well suited to lots of pumped up sub-two liter applications, especially as red-lines keep going up, and up, and up!

But what you're really getting with a blower is increased power and a bit of a different personallity at lower revs than a turbo car. Now, the newer turbos address that difference in personality somewhat, but they use smaller turbos to do it, so you won't get the same TC power levels out of the little turbos...

Matt

 

In other words, there ain't no such thing as a free lunch.

 

For the MINI, and the type of driving that I do, I like the responsiveness of a SC, or possibly a small turbo.

With the **** smog checks in CA being beyond just emissions analysis, a CARB-certified or friendly solution is desired. The M62 fits this requirment.

 

Exactly, and I don't live in CA

 

I know prices nor numbers are out for the M62 kit but it seems like it'll end up costing about close to a "standard" TC kit and won't make as much power.. Maybe one of the TC guys can chime in here, but with the turbos being used, full boost is probably brought on at around 3500rpms.. With the M45 you won't begin to see useful boost until about 4000-4500rpms. Not sure how much lower the M62 will bring that but I would say maybe 3500rpms.. Driveability in terms of daily driving really shouldn't be that different as most won't go past 4000-4500rpms unless your getting on an onramp or passing someone..

Simply put, the dyno will tell... It would be nice to compare the dyno of a "standard" M62 kit and a "standard" TC kit.. It would also be nice to see the boost figures on the M62 kit as well as the IAT's compared to a TC setup...

 

Life is full of trade-offs. I'll accept, and embrace CA's concern for the environment even though I don't agree with all aspects of it...

To live here is well worth it, in so many incredible ways. Shoveling snow, blizzards, and salted roads... giving way to umcomfortable (and power-robbing) humidity are certainly not aspects of life here. The ground shakes sometimes though .

Back on topic... As I believe I said earlier, while a TC app will generate more power, I'd love to see some go against a group of M62's in a 4+ hour enduro race. It is said and believed that the track speeds-up what we see on the street... where longevity and reliabilty are concerns for all, like finishing on the track is paramount. It would be neat and telling to see how these perform in such an event... not just an auto-x burst, or 20 min race.

 

The CARB rule is fine in my book. Here in MA you can park a bike on the street with the exhaust blowing into an enterance - bad - my bike, 68 TR6C, when started produces, exhaust emissions the equal of 90 cars ( after 1996 ). Just think of how much a 140ci RevTech with a carburator produces... Nothing aganst bikers, Ive had bikes since 1962 & plan to ride untill I can't kick start one. 1 of the CARB rules.

Humidity, May, June & July this year - had 72 days of rain..........

You are right about the TC. It will be easier to make some big #s but for most, the reliability and low end grunt for the DD is most desireable ( me anyway ). The M62 fits the bill. There is not much chance this car will ever see a track or auto-x, its life will be spent on the street where low end rules. If the M62 delivers 30hp as a bolt on, it will be great bang for the buck.

 

i believe if tuned properly the TC car shouldn't have a problem in enduro... if you put pistons in the darn things its nearly indisctrutable! Well, as again as long as your A/F isn't completley whacked

 

That 4,000 will look a bit smaller when you start to rebuild that TC car from time to time .

Case in point.
These are the major issues not counting the various items that melted , shook loose or had to be re worked.

Local TC car, BASE hp ( 240 - 250 ) set up

First week turbo went " bad " replaced by SPI.

Few weeks later number one piston went burned up, nothing unusual if you read up on this system . Replaced by owner.

Most recent the super charger seized . Replaced by owner.


For some history on the car , this is owned by a National caliber Auto X driver who as stable of cars one of which is the Mini which he uses as a fun toy. He knows what he is doing and is fortunate to have the resources to keep fixing his car. If you go this route make sure you do as well.

 

trackster,

Didn't you just blow up a M45 equipped car?

 

? Not yet but I keep trying

 

Not much has surfaced lately about the availability of the kit. Any idea what's going on with development? I keep hearing "Next week next week!". Got tired of waiting and went another route with the car for now... At this rate Helix will have their kit out before DDM!

 

I apologize to spider for hijacking this thread... But I would like to say that while a twincharged car may not be extremely reliable... If you put a set of pistons in the car and converted it to straight turbo you would have a reliable car. I believe you could do that for around 10k.

 

There are 4 beta cars getting kits installed at this point..... the owners have very different time frames when they want them back..... my car is running great and the kit is performing flawlessly..... the power strong, easy to modulate and makes the car feel like the "M+" version......

Taking longer than anyone hoped but moving along well..... I will be in Greenville for the Waymotorworks/DDM mod party on the 11/12 of Nov. I will not be there both days so if you are coming and want a ride in the car etc PM me......

additionally, I have my car in Atlanta.... if you are serious/or not..... PM me and we can get together...... I know this sounds funny but in my driving daily, things like how much boost is enough/too much for the application are questions that you need to live with the car some to sort out..... this process for me has been an education.....

Spillman, ......