how are you liking the st47 pads? I am really happy with mine so far, I was instructing a student at the last event, and focusing on him so I was driving at 9/10th and I did not do as many sessions as normal but the wear is great and the bite worked really well for me. I found them easy to modulate on the track, and I could hit abs without too much work. I blocked off the ducts and towed the trailer home, brakes worked "ok" on the street.

I had to bump up to the afco pillar vane rotors, so far no crazing and no cracks! 53 $ each. They are uni-directional and light so time will tell, i hope to make it to CMP soon, that place is VERY hard on brakes, it'll be the true test.

 

Traction controls come in many different shapes and forms, and there are the early ones like the ones in early Mini's which get in your ways and always try to kill you when you need to accelerate fast out of the way of that tractor trailer bearing down on you. In the drivers' meeting it was the alpha males with GT3 RS that started the discussion that they notice excessive brake pad wear when they left it on. The Carrara S owner seems to subscribe that it is getting into his way too. I didn't offer my view as I have little experience with Porsche let alone the rear engine rear wheel drive 911s. However my reading on Rennlist suggests otherwise from Porsche diehard that are very good track drivers. Many confessed that traction control saved their *****.

Most of the modern high power cars especially those from GM, Ford, and Chrysler all have electronic driving aids without them driving in wet track would be very difficult. Even for our Mini's I can't image what it would be like to convert from ABS to all mechanical/hydraulic proportional brakes.

I was talking to a 650 HP Camero owner with paddle shift. He told me he never shift with the paddles because the automatic shifting by the 10-speed transmission is so good and he cannot match it. My thought was what do the driver bring to the table?

 

Brake, brake, brake! My preoccupation with Desire driving on track has been brakes, wheels, and tires. This most recent track event is no different and again learning something new with cause and effect. Desire was sporting a set of Raybestos ST-45 front pads and a set of rock bottom discount ($35 each) Wilwood utility grade rotors. I drove with my R53 Mini track buddy who has a highly modified car so I was driving at 9.5/10 level as best as I could.

What I noticed very soon was the pads lack of grip and I thought was due to the low ambient temperature. I had to step on the pedal as hard as I could for heavy braking to get the deceleration that I wanted. Strange, I thought as they had plenty of bite and good modulation at PIR only a few weeks ago. In the second session I decided to come in and check tire temperature and wheel lugs. I pulled into the paddock and prepared to perform a quick check to be sure nothing bad about to happen. I noticed the wetness on the left front tires and it clearly is brake fluid. I immediately thought that I was done for the event as I didn't bring spare piston seals or whole calipers. I was so sure that I had blew a piston seal as a result of prior instances of boiling brake fluid last season.

Grudgingly I jacked up the right side to investigate. There were traces of brake fluid all over the wheel well and the wheel barrel. The level in the reservoir was so low that air could have enter the ABS module had I didn't come in. It so happen that the brake light came on while driving, but I dismissed it as false alarm. The brake light will illuminate when the front pad wears and the fluid level in the reservoir goes down. I had seen it all too many times. This time the cause is different.

There was traces of brake fluid all over the caliper as well not the pads and rotors have none. My buddy came and helped. I decide to pull the pads so I could a better look to see which of the 4 seals had been blown. To my surprise there was no wetness around any of the four pistons. I even had my buddy inspected them as a second opinion. As there are brake fluid everywhere it is hard to determine the origin. I wiped down the caliper and brake line with water and dish detergent. I then have my buddy step hard on the brake hoping to see a leak. He had to turn on the engine and lean on the pedal as his life depends on it, and then I see a small drop of fluid weeping out at the 90-degree elbow of the Wilwood caliper.

When I first installed the Wilwood BBK I agonized how hard to tighten the damn brass elbow. It is made of cheap brass with the appearance of too much nickel and I was afraid to strip the soft aluminium thread of the Wilwood caliper. I had to decide if I could make another 360 degree turn or best leave it slightly loose. As I didn't have enough brake fluid nor a bleeding kit with me I decided to just give the elbow a 30 degree more turn. Our testing showed it was holding fine.

The next morning we drove in tandem again and I came in after one session and checked. Still there were traces of brake fluid everything including the right side body panels. Obviously the 30-degree additional turn was not good enough. I found a member with Motul 600 as wall as a bleeding bottle and with them I could try to reseat the elbow. I have a roll of teflon tape with me, so I had everything I needed.

In the last moment I decided to just undo the brake line and give the 90-degree elbow a full turn which I was sure would be a permanent fix. I didn't want to strip the aluminum thread of the caliper so I proceeded with care and prepare to call it off should it become too tight before the nipple faces the required angle. Thankfully it worked and I didn't need to redo the joint with teflon tape.

As I was very careful in handling the brake line so as little fluid was lost and hence very little air was introduced, I only needed to use may be 50 cc of fluid to flush out the air in the line and the caliper.

The ST-45 pads definite are not as crabby as the ST-45 and require more pedal pressure to trigger the ABS. They seem to be easier on the rotors than the ST-41s. I wanted to get ST-43 but they are none to be found this season and I settled on ST-45 as this is the only compound that is left.

So the lesson here is the minute leak during extreme hard braking was enough to reduce the hydraulic pressure. The ABS senses the reduce right front brake and did such a good job of modulating the left front also that it gave the impression that the pads are just that much less grippy. Only a proper diagnostic revealed the true cause.

 

I drove with ST-45s. I had no experience with ST-47. ST-45 sure is less grippy than ST-41 but seems to be very gentle on the rotors. They were adequate for me as I was able to trigger the ABS if I wanted to. Just require more pedal pressure. I have 2 more sets of ST-45s to last me the rest of the season.

I gained two insights of what likely contribute to loose wheel lugs and premature cracked rotors. I suspect not religiously doing a cool down lap contribute to premature cracked rotors. I think when you fail to conduct a cool down lap, and stop the car extreme uneven cooling occurs because the rotor faces that are in contact with the pads will retain the heat for a very long time while the rest of the friction surfaces cool. As to the stretched lugs I think checking torque when the wheels and brakes are still very hot cause the lug bolts to stretch and eventually past the elastic region (yield point?) Also the bunch of stock lug bolts may be of inferior quality.

Now I religiously do a full cool down lap, and not check the lug bolt torque until the wheel and brake are cool. The $35 rotors have no crazing yet, and the lugs are holding the torque.

 

I am Desire's sugar daddy; at least that's what her little airhead thinks. She was gifted with a AIM Solo 2 DL delivered right to track side.


Solo 2 DL



my shop tried to upsell us with whatever that is that cost a few hundred greenbacks more but I said enough is enough

AIM products are not cheap, but when you see one first hand you understand why. They are built like the best of avionics. Now only if I can find time to learn another new trick as how to use it.

 

So if the traction control comes on, you have done something wrong. But that is just my opinion, though the MINI's DSC kicks in WAY too soon. I've taken the same corners in the S at the same speed as my Justa and the DSC kicks in..... very upsetting. Same tires, wheels and same, obviously, driver.

 

I am Desire's shrink too. At the end of the second day of the three day Mini free love at ORP Desire suddenly complain of unwell. The ailment was so severe that she was nearly incapacitated. She just bogged down when I pressed the accelerator to accelerate from the pit not that hard, and I thought WTF just happened? I thought may be I forgot to switch off the ASC. Glancing at the center speedometer I saw the indicator light was on but I know if you happen to forget to switch off the damn thing and trips it it will illuminate. This time is different because the MIL below it also illuminated. Additionally the Service Engine Soon light also illuminated. Too much to process in that little time as the track marshal was wondering what happen and the Mini behind us. All this cause a yellow flag to come out.

As we were still in the pit lane I back Desire up into safety, and explained to a turn worker what happen. Thinking it was just a very bad stumble from tripping the ASC I switch off the engine and restarted to see if the MIL light would go away and sure it did. Since it was the last session of the day I decided to give it another shot. Desire accelerated towards turn 1 just fine, but in no time she when into limp mode. I switch on the hazard warning light immediately and limped back through the whole track. Initially the speed wasn't too bad but toward the end Desire pace was down to just few mph and I had to down shift into 2nd to go up hills.

Safely back into the paddock I switch her off and then started back up. The MIL light still did not return, but the Service Engine Soon light still illuminated. I listen carefully for any unusual engine sound and all sound well. No abnormal mechanical sound and the engine rev'ed freely. I had a strong suspicion the cause may the upstream O2 sensor, but without a code reader nor replacement sensor I could do little. At that point I regretted not bringing the Lenovo Thinkpad and the OBD cable. I even have a spare NTK O2 sensor at home.

While if I asked I likely could borrow a BMW shop level reader to find out what the fault codes are. I decided not to trouble others as the chance that I have no parts to repair it and even if I did the time involved is not in my favor to make the next day event. We had so much fun already so it was not a hard decision to not run.

Back home I fired up INPA and obtained the following error report. It is all in German and I could not cut and paste to translate. The code numbers look odd as I was expecting the Pxxxx format.


INPA report



A bit of hard work here is in English:
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
263 Circuit Intake manifold absolute pressure / atmospheric pressure, input low

Error frequency: 11

Track covered since last active 8.80km
Engine speed 4823.00 1/min
throttle opening 19.21 Grad DK
Manifold Absolute Pressure 28.46 hPa
Intake air temperature 67.50 Grad C

short circuit with ground
sporadic errors
warning light status

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
5768 E-gas, surveillance (something) 2/3, Calculation of air mass flow

Error frequency: 2

Track covered since last active 8.80km
Engine speed 3646.00 1/min
Long-term fuel correction 2.49%
Status fuel system 1 2.00
Manifold absolute pressure 31.97 hPa

Signal out of range
sporadic errors

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


to be continued

 

Hmmmm.....
Verrrrrryyyy Interestink.....

 

The definitive answer is yes and no....
Sorry, couldn’t resist.

In my Gen II MINI, I ordered it with the DSC/DTC option partly because I thought the eDLC (eLSD) was a good idea and I specifically wanted the dynamic stability control part of it (not sure if I am using the proper terms here, but hopefully it is understandable). The DSC part was to catch the back end if it was coming out and around on me.

So, my understanding is that the computer looks at what the car is doing versus what it thinks it should be doing. That is, in going around a corner, is the back end tracking with the front end and vice versa? If not, then the computer kicks in (applies the brake on one wheel or another, cuts power, etc) to bring things back into proper alignment. This could be because the car is really doing something wrong or something about the car is different than what the computer expected. About the second part, say you put in a large rear sway bar into the car, you have changed how the car will be in a corner. You may be doing everything correctly, but the car may be at a different attitude than with the stock swaybar. For example, the backend of your car may drift out a bit more because of the RSB, but this is in your range of control. But to control it, your steering angle is different than it would be with the stock sway bar. All of this will play into what the computer thinks it should be doing and it will kick it. So, no you haven’t done something wrong, just different than the expected for the computer. From my experience it seem like it also comes on when the computer thinks that the limits of adhesion are about to be exceeded. I guess I would call it general cornering g load. Again, you haven’t done anything wrong.

Then there is the “wrong”. For example, with that same car with the large RSB, the driver comes into a corner too hot and lifts abruptly off the gas in the middle of the corner. This is likely to cause the car to abruptly transition from understeer to oversteer (i.e.: swap ends). The computer will try to correct for this, which is what I wanted the computer to do for me. That is to help correct my mistakes as I have learned that I am not as good as I once thought I was.

In my 2012 S, the traction control button has 3 settings - Full On (car startup mode), TRACTION (a quick press of the button and release) and OFF (press and hold the button for a few seconds). With “Full On” the computer does come on at higher cornering g loads and I have done nothing “wrong”. From my experience the threshold for this is on the low side for being out on the track. When this does start to happen out on the track, I will not change my driving just like when you hit the ABS you keep your foot on the brake. Then, I will switch to TRACTION mode. On the dash it says “TRACTION”. The book says that this setting is intended to be temporarily used in situations where a bit of wheel spin is desirable, like in snow. What I have found is that it raise all of the threshold limits for all of the traction controls and makes for a great track setting. It only seems to come on when I have a 4 wheel slide through a corner or have done something really wrong.

As I said, I always run with the traction controls on when on the track. If I feel them come into play, I do a quick mental assessment of what I think caused it to come into play. Was the computer thinking that I am just too fast in a corner (that is, I did everything OK) or did I do something wrong such as lifting too abruptly when trailbraking into a downhill turn, which caused the back end of the car to want to step out (like I would ever do that... )? Then I make the appropriate correction (or try to) the next lap, if needed.

 

I want to write realtime posts as I am diagnosing this stop-you-dead-on-your-track case of limp home mode . To be frank I haven't found the cause yet but I I have a few hunches. Unfortunately this week starting from yesterday is all scorcher days. I hate hot sunny days so the best time to work a bit is early morning. The driveway is like a toaster oven even at sunset.




My biggest angst is should I need parts I need to factor in the shipping time as I don't like paying expedited shipping. I am not one like to pull out the shotgun and blast at anything that look suspicious, especially what the error messengers got to tell me. However, due to the parts procurement logistics I might conduct speculative pre-fetch instructions if cost/benefit/risk warrens.

Yesterday evening I already checked the too-good-to-be-true obvious wishful thinking causes.

 

I have never experienced the rear brakes worked this hard before and this is a revelation. As I previously recounted the right front caliper fluid leak from the slightly loose brass fitting that led to significant reduced brake bite that I initially thought were the ST-45 pads. Strangely they worked very well only a couple of weeks ago at PIR at low ambient and damp day. While I would later repaired the leak and restore the bites to the front brakes, only last night that I discovered another surprising observation.

With the Red Baron track in hot pursuit I was driving 10/10 most of the time and at time a bit over despite the faded brake grabs. Unbeknown to me until yesterday that the rear brakes were working extra hard to help out thanks to the amazing ABS effectiveness. The clues are how much the rear pads and rotors worn down. Normally they wear very little and no sign of ever reaching high temperature. Not this time.

These are the photos I took prepare for this track event. You can see the rotor while somewhat worn still has some life left and so are the pads.


here you can see the (before) thickness of the outer pad as well as the rotor surface



here you can see the (before) inner pad thickness

Here are the photos I took last night inspecting the tire wears as brake wears:


the outer (after) rear pad; you can see it was cooked from excessive temperature



the (after) inner rear pad; you can see it was cooked from excessive temperature



the (after) rotor face suffered extreme rapid wear an very grooved as well as concaved



this is the (after) left rear outer pad which also worn badly as is the rotor faces


Seeing this I have a few thoughts. The front brake circuit which is separate from the rear one suffered from significant reduced hydraulic pressure. Because of this the pedal pressure is held up from collapsing mainly from the counter reactive force of the rear hydraulic pressure (or else the pedal would go to the floor). The rear brake were modulated by the ABS system to just short of locking up the rear wheels and that was what were doing most of the braking and why I sensed the significantly loss of brake grip.

What this episode tells me is there is so more braking capacity to be gained from running more aggressive rear pads. What I had was Cobalt XR5 racing pads but they have very low friction coefficient. Without this experience, I would had a hard time gauging how much braking I can expect from the store rear calipers and rotors.

 

Here are a couple more photos of this set of Toyo R888R that was new before the event. Both front and rear were set to 32 psi cold. I didn't take the pressure as I now always do a good cool down lap which also making the pyrometer reading not that useful. However I can still gleam much from examining the wear from across the width of the tread faces.


right front tire; the wear is so even the wheel almost stands straight upright



same goes with the rear; this is my dream come true from adjusting the rear camber close to -3 degrees


At the beginning of the first day my Mini track buddy told me that this tires like higher pressure and should be set to around 42 psi hot at front. Based on the starting pressure of 32 I know they must had reached or slightly exceeded 42 psi. From the slight ballooning of the center as well as the amount of the wear there I would run with slightly lower pressure in the future. My inclination is to set them to 38 psi hot.

I should add that both these tires have seen action at front as well as rear. Unlike ORP wear left and right side very evenly unlike PIR no matter which direction we run. So I only need to swap the front with the rear after each track day. No cross rotate needed.

I am extremely pleased with the tire wears as well as the DIY alignment, despite maxing out on the front camber and relative soft spring rates of the Swift Sports springs. The Koni Yellows and the Swift springs deliver way more than I'd ever imagined possible with their street friendly characteristics and yet I can put up a good fight against an all out track prep'ed Mini that is the Red Baron.

 

I need to make a note on the p/n of the MAP and TMAP sensors. Right now the MAP sensor is a person of interest but he can just be a social misfit that looks guilty.

As the vendors often don't make a clear distinction between TMAP and MAP here are the official part numbers:

• MAP (at the SC intake tract that has no temperature transducer) 12140872679 used only on R53 and R52
• TMAP (at the intake manifold post SC that has temperature transducer) 12140872648 used on R53, R52, and R50

There is a range of suppliers of these parts ranging from highway robbery MINI that cost over $110 each to $15 from names that I have never heard of. I trust NTK and its price is circa $75. The solid state thingy inside the plastic housing costs probably $0.30 to buy in 1000s. The TMAP adds a even cheaper NTC thermistor.

 

I am Desire's shrink and I leant a few things from the good Doktor Freud. Desire is never going to tell me what's wrong so a bit of psychoanalysis is required.

Anticipating the onslaught of days of extreme heat I did some checking of the supercharger belt drive system. The belt, belt tensioner, and the crank pulley were install all under 2 years ago and have seen no more than 12,500 7,500 miles. Nonetheless they were easy enough things to check to eliminate as suspects.

• serpentine belt stretch
• belt tensioner loss tension
• belt tensioner damper failure
• oil get onto belt friction surface
• crank pulley failure (very unlikely)

To check belt stretch I rely on visible holes of the tensioner. I only remember when I installed the new tensioner I was very surprised that I cannot see more than one hole. Now I can only see 1/2 hole. Because of this I use my hand to feel the tension of the belt.


I removed the right front wheel liner to gain access for inspections



only 1/2 a hole is visible on the tensioner



nothing appears to be unusual with the tensioner's damper; the trace of oil is likely from the valve cover gasket very slow weeping



I use my hand to feel the tension at this point and I can twist the belt without much effort though I concluded it is normal

I was expecting more tension on the belt given it has to turn the tiny SC pulley with a lot of torque. Initially I thought the belt has stretched a lot and hence lost much tension. A bit of searching later I concluded that with 15% pulley and Gates K060535 belt only 1 hole shows when new and 1/2 hole is quite normal once the belt settled in. With these I concluded that none of these are suspects. Additionally when the belt slips momentarily I don't think the EMC will go into the limp mode.

I would go and give the error messages more thought and focus on the numbers.

to be continued ...

 

I've always liked that quote.

The lowercase g used above is an atrocious typeface ain't it?

Anyway,
good luck with the sleuthing and keep us posted.

 

I know better not to take the recorded error message at face value as which part to swap. To me they offer clues and with some careful analysis and step by step examinations one can narrow down the true cause(s). Looking at these messages I see a few points of significance. I recall seeing Service Engine Soon light when I first turn on the ignition recently but didn't think much of it thinking it may be just time/mileage driven maintenance schedule reminder. The light will extinguish once the engine starts. In retrospect I think it is triggered by one of these faults.

The significance of the 263 fault is it occurred 11 times. It is atmospheric pressure input reading low and most recently recorded at 4823 rpm. What I didn't comprehend is what 28.46 hPa is. It turns out it is merely 0.413 psi. This is clearly outside the boundary condition of a working sensor as it means very strong vacuum at 4823 rpm. At this rpm the pressure reading should be very close to atmospheric, which is about 14 psi or 965 hPa.

Often people get faults that are related to TMAP or MAP because of vacuum leak. It does not appear this is the case here as there would still be many pound of absolute pressure rather than close to zero. This almost eliminate my recent new SC installation which involves messing with the vacuum line to the MAP sensor as the suspect. It could be an intermittent failing sensor. I doubt it is the harness or connector as modern automotive harness and connectors are very reliable unless someone messed it up.

Looking at the two fault messages I think 5768 is the side effect of 263. With the telemetries the DME saw I can certainly see why it pulled a hard limp home mode to protect the engine from damage as it cannot determine what A/F and fuel rate to apply. Right now the focus is the MAP sensor. I will try to get some real time voltage reading with INPA later if possible.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
263 Circuit Intake manifold absolute pressure / atmospheric pressure, input low

Error frequency: 11

Track covered since last active 8.80km
Engine speed 4823.00 1/min
throttle opening 19.21 Grad DK
Manifold Absolute Pressure 28.46 hPa
Intake air temperature 67.50 Grad C

short circuit with ground
sporadic errors
warning light status

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
5768 E-gas, surveillance (something) 2/3, Calculation of air mass flow

Error frequency: 2

Track covered since last active 8.80km
Engine speed 3646.00 1/min
Long-term fuel correction 2.49%
Status fuel system 1 2.00
Manifold absolute pressure 31.97 hPa

Signal out of range
sporadic errors

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

to be continued ...

 

Yup, the rears can take quite a bit of braking. Good catch on finding that wear. And good that wear is even.

 

 

the BMW MAP shows two part numbers; one might be OEM's number






strangely there is what looks to be a $0.05 NTC thermistor in there; it is possible this MAP transducer is really a TMAP but BMW just doesn't use the T function for this application





anyone can go buy a bunch of these generic ones for a song and rebrand them as your own fancy brand



more found on Alibaba


I only need one and the cheapest I can find is around $42 each. Seeing these makes me wonder should I just buy the cheap ones rather than NTK. I am sure NTK likely just a rebranded generic.

 

There is huge confusion on BMW's part brake down as which is the MAP (pre-SC) and which is TMAP. There is no diagram that show their respective locations. I need to proceed with caution.

ECS shows 12140872679 is bolted to the intake manifold, which means it is TMAP, and 12140872648 is used on all gen 1 including R50 so it should be MAP for R53 and R52 but TMAP for R50. This seems to be consistent with Bentley's description which is equally confusion. As for the MAP functions fo both sensors Bentley clearly convey the transfer functions are very different. I think both are TMAP but just in the R53/R52 application one is used as MAP only and the T function is simply not used.

I have no knowledge if the two sensors have features that prevent you from interchanging their mounting locations. So hard to try saving a few bucks, but for me I want to make it hard for BMW to price gouge me.

Update: OK, problem solve with a walk out to the sweltering heat to give Desire a peek.

As I suspected both sensors have T function but just the so called MAP used on the SC intake track don't use the T function and there is a blank pin on the connector. 12140872679 is the TMAP for R53/R52 and is mounted on the intake manifold post-SC. 12140872648 is the MAP for R53/R52 and is mounted on the intake tract of the SC (hence pre-SC). 12140872648 is used on R50 as TMAP which make sense as its range are only good for non-boost pressure. I got them straight but what about you?


this is TMAP for R53/R52 and is bolted to the intake manifold (post-SC); the right p/n is 0872679 or 04693279AA



this is used on R53/R52 as MAP as the T function is not used (note the blank pin on the connector)



the MAP sensor is unmistakably 0872648

 

I braved the sweltering heat to give Desire a psychoanalysis session, probing the abyss of her inner subconsciousness.

I used INPA (Inner Nervous system Probing Analysis).


this are some sensor voltages with ignition on but engine not running



this are some sensor voltages after cold start



this are computed parameters in the manufacturing page at idle with a warmed up engine



one additional 263 fault (making a total of 12) as the result of the short test drive

It seems that the MAP sensor simply was not outputing reasonably value atmospheric pressure from the get go, and I am hoping this is the case which means a hard fault rather than intermittent one.

I decided at this point to clear the recorded faults. I then immediately read the fault memory to verify it is indeed cleared. Surprisingly there is already one fault recorded immediately.


one single fault recorded immediately following fault memory clearing

It appears that the MAP sensor may be outputing voltage value corresponding to out of bound upstream pressure. While INPA provides the raw voltage readings as well as computed pressures I am wary in interpreting them as the terms are ambiguous.

I found a cheap MAP sensor so I ordered one to test. That is all I can do right now until the part arrives.

 

I reckon the rear brakes can contribute to about 25% of the braking given the static 67/33 % F/R weight distribution under heavy weight transfer.

 

Desire sure enjoyed out exercising with her friend, or better put - frenemy. She wants to be the top hog and she does not care that the Red Baron is a hardcore track hog. I'd finally gotten to the bottom of the chronic sound problem with the GoPro Hero 5 Black betaware. Now each time after I power it up, I unplug and plug back in the USB-C external mic adapter dongle to force a detection of the external mic. These people simply don't know what software and hardware validation is all about.

 

Oh, the sound is really good now -

I like your line better than that of your frenemy...

 

In this continent most organizations require we drive with windows down. The wind noise makes it very difficult to record decent audio.

My instructor buddy has been driving this track nearly a decade and he is very good. Our lines are quite different at many turns. Strangely he noticed I am faster in a couple of turns and since then he has learned my lines there and I lost some edges. His car has a lot more springs, anti-roll bars, and brakes, not to mention to have a lot more power. I would have harder time staying with him have I not using a lot of left foot braking to manage weight transfer. My springs are just 280/308 lb/in front/back. His springs easily double that of mine. My car is very loose in comparison because of these. I noticed when following him he can brake so much later and briefer.

I am extremely pleased Desire being so much of a street car can put up a good fight against his. I think having 15" wheels really help against his 17". When I am behind him I drive my own lines and never follow his. Of course I observe our differences and reflect on them. I never had an instructor rode with me on this track so I learnt all the lines myself. A few were learnt by mistakes.