Drivetrain Intercoolers
6th Gear
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 3,957
Likes: 2
From: a canyon, south Bay Area
I'm sure it at least applies to the F1 engine but people read that and think that W2A on the Mini at the track is not a good application where almost everthing I have read by the owners of W2A at the track has been good if not great.... I'm sure there are exceptions or maybe rules but this is what I am trying to sort out.... who actually owns a W2A that tracks the car or runs the canyons or twisties and keeps the engine running hard for 20-30 minutes ata time.... what are their results.... that is what most of us want to know with regard to the W2A..... not that we can sit in traffic and preserve our power.
6th Gear
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 5,149
Likes: 0
Bob, you might want to PM RSR Motorsports, the guys running our MINI in the Grand Am races. They've done some experimenting with IC's, and I recall a couple weeks back they were going to try a water-to-air unit. The conditions experienced during such racing are ones that almost none of us would ever encounter though...
6th Gear
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 5,149
Likes: 0
I've tried to get in touch but nothing so fare. I wondered about the heatsink as well. I would like to know more.
I work with allot of high end two channel amps. The heatsink on most of these are thick.
I think the tank needs to be bigger but thats not a problem.
Longboat
I work with allot of high end two channel amps. The heatsink on most of these are thick.
I think the tank needs to be bigger but thats not a problem.
Longboat
I don't understand the horozontal orientation on the Think unit
2nd Gear
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 82
Likes: 0
The Think! intercooler is the Ultrik/Mini mania piece. "checkers" here has one and had this to say:
It works great. I track the car and it runs very cool, you can come off the track and in 5 or 10 min you can put your hand on it and it feels warm but that all. I put on a bigger radiator from mini madness but thats all. When i had it put on the dyno they did 3 runs and the hp and tq range was not 5 hp diffence between all three runs. I had it polished and painted the intake and it really stands out.
I also tried contacting Think! with no response. I contacted the UK office of mini mania and they have one version left.
It works great. I track the car and it runs very cool, you can come off the track and in 5 or 10 min you can put your hand on it and it feels warm but that all. I put on a bigger radiator from mini madness but thats all. When i had it put on the dyno they did 3 runs and the hp and tq range was not 5 hp diffence between all three runs. I had it polished and painted the intake and it really stands out.
I also tried contacting Think! with no response. I contacted the UK office of mini mania and they have one version left.
Temporarily Banned
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 3,382
Likes: 2
From: Denver
convection cooling requires space for the hot air to "escape".... I was going to put some heat sinks on the DFIC and still might.... there needs to be sufficient room for the hot air to radiate.... not sdure about the space under the hood...
I don't understand the horozontal orientation on the Think unit
I don't understand the horozontal orientation on the Think unit
I have used several w2a intercoolers, as well as DFIC style, larger top mounts and a front mount. Front mount a2a is the most efficient on the track, but difficult to make work correctly with packaging issues we have. w2a are hit and miss depending on the design. The Gintani is outstanding. The jacketed coolers work OK, but you need to make sure the capacity is large enough to both take the thermal load and be somewhere else long enough to remove that huge thermal sink even with the much higher thermal mass of water. The DFIC did not work at all on the track - the stock was better. The top mounts are hit and miss as well, with one in particular working decently on the track, but only marginally better after time than the stock unit.
All of that is my TRACK experience with different intercooler styles.
Hope that helps!
Randy
From Think Performance. It is an interesting design. Laminova core with a nice heat-sink on top. Just thought I would share.
Longboard
The Blizzard™ Intercooler uses superior design and manufacturing to create the most effective intercooler you can install on your Mini.
Utilizing the patented Laminova™ cooling tubes, the Blizzard bolts into the stock intercooler location, replacing that “heat magnet” installed by the factory. The result is a cooler running, more efficient forced induction system that ultimately will give you up to a 15% horsepower gain. With a reduction pulley installed, the gain is even more dramatic.
Like everything we build, we dyno-tested a Mini before and after installation of the Blizzard kit to prove the increased horsepower claims. Check out the dyno chart below to see for yourself.
The Blizzard is also easy to install. Everything needed is included to ensure a high-quality, factory looking installation. The average Mini owner whose comfortable working on their car can install the kit in two to three hours. Then the fun begins.
I'm sure JAN (RMW) already has this noted but he should get them to change the direction of the top heat sink fins 90 degrees so that the hood scoop air could be better channeled thru them.
Perhaps some fins on the bottom (can't see) and then have hood scoop air directed over and under ?
Last edited by Bahamabart; Jul 12, 2007 at 07:20 AM.
OVERDRIVE
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 7,926
Likes: 40
From: Greensboro, NC
That's very interesting Randy...can you elaborate on the DFIC's performance on track some more?
Turbius Maximus
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 4,416
Likes: 0
From: Infinity and beyond
From what I have seen most of the W2A have a timer for after the car is shut down it keeps pumping the water for 5 minutes or something... that is good... and will help avoid heat soak...
as for recovery of others... area being cooled is everything... so the stock is small but the area facing air (and transfering heat) is large relative to it's size... this is why I always like the V1 alta... large area not too thick.... it reconvered very fast and worked very well... even on the dyno with a small house hold fan.
this is why I always go on about area vs pressure drop etc etc... if an IC is too thick that's just as bad as not enough area... sure there are ICs that are 6 inches thick... but they are 30 inches wide and 14 inches tall.... and moreover front mounts...
this is one of those questions that goes back to what I said ealier... ultimately... DOES IT WORK?! LOL In all honesty... this can get silly...This is why I always talk about my findings as a mini owner who went out and did it my self. There is alot of "kool aid" out there... and once someone finds the one they like they tend to talk about it as if it's the best bar none...even if it's not the best. So I decided to learn more about "Kool Aid" so that I could learn how to mix it my self to get a fine mixure of any of the brands to make a nice blend.... LOL
To properly evaluate an intercooler you would need: the SC air flow through the intercooler; the pressure and temperature of the air from the sc; the intercooler outlet temperature and pressure; the outside air temperature; and either the mix temperature of the cooling air as it leaves the intercooler or the flow rate of that air. That's a lot of info, and I'm not going to pretend that a vendor would make all that available to you, or that they would even collect all that data. I'm sure that the majority of the vendors selling bigger intercoolers have a trial and error process that they use to design their offerings....some accually put forth a real engineering effort. heck I hated doing formulas till I started applying it to stuff like this, then it was a game, with a real out come. Once the #s were done, build it and go to the DYNO!
But, if they did do all that testing, and they would release the info, I would then use that data to figure out the amount of heat transferred *Q and the ****DTlm, and then calculate the **UA value for the intercooler. I would compare various intercooler's UA values and choose the one with the highest UA since that will give you the highest Q (most heat transferred) and the best DTlm (closest approach).
The difference between the intercooler outlet temperature and the outside air temperature is called the approach. If it is 100 degrees outside and your intercooler cools the air going into the intake manifold down to 140 degrees, then you have an approach of 40 degrees. an approach of 20 degrees is would be pretty impressive for a top mount and is considered good for a front mount
*Q is the amount of energy that is transferred.
**U is called the heat transfer coefficient. It is a measure of how well the exchanger transfers heat. The bigger the number, the better the transfer.
**A is the heat transfer area, or the surface area of the intercooler tubes and fins that is exposed to the outside air.
****DTlm is called the log mean temperature difference. It is an indication of the "driving force", or the overall average difference in temperature between the hot and cold fluids.
as for recovery of others... area being cooled is everything... so the stock is small but the area facing air (and transfering heat) is large relative to it's size... this is why I always like the V1 alta... large area not too thick.... it reconvered very fast and worked very well... even on the dyno with a small house hold fan.
this is why I always go on about area vs pressure drop etc etc... if an IC is too thick that's just as bad as not enough area... sure there are ICs that are 6 inches thick... but they are 30 inches wide and 14 inches tall.... and moreover front mounts...
this is one of those questions that goes back to what I said ealier... ultimately... DOES IT WORK?! LOL In all honesty... this can get silly...This is why I always talk about my findings as a mini owner who went out and did it my self. There is alot of "kool aid" out there... and once someone finds the one they like they tend to talk about it as if it's the best bar none...even if it's not the best. So I decided to learn more about "Kool Aid" so that I could learn how to mix it my self to get a fine mixure of any of the brands to make a nice blend.... LOL
To properly evaluate an intercooler you would need: the SC air flow through the intercooler; the pressure and temperature of the air from the sc; the intercooler outlet temperature and pressure; the outside air temperature; and either the mix temperature of the cooling air as it leaves the intercooler or the flow rate of that air. That's a lot of info, and I'm not going to pretend that a vendor would make all that available to you, or that they would even collect all that data. I'm sure that the majority of the vendors selling bigger intercoolers have a trial and error process that they use to design their offerings....some accually put forth a real engineering effort. heck I hated doing formulas till I started applying it to stuff like this, then it was a game, with a real out come. Once the #s were done, build it and go to the DYNO!
But, if they did do all that testing, and they would release the info, I would then use that data to figure out the amount of heat transferred *Q and the ****DTlm, and then calculate the **UA value for the intercooler. I would compare various intercooler's UA values and choose the one with the highest UA since that will give you the highest Q (most heat transferred) and the best DTlm (closest approach).
The difference between the intercooler outlet temperature and the outside air temperature is called the approach. If it is 100 degrees outside and your intercooler cools the air going into the intake manifold down to 140 degrees, then you have an approach of 40 degrees. an approach of 20 degrees is would be pretty impressive for a top mount and is considered good for a front mount
*Q is the amount of energy that is transferred.
**U is called the heat transfer coefficient. It is a measure of how well the exchanger transfers heat. The bigger the number, the better the transfer.
**A is the heat transfer area, or the surface area of the intercooler tubes and fins that is exposed to the outside air.
****DTlm is called the log mean temperature difference. It is an indication of the "driving force", or the overall average difference in temperature between the hot and cold fluids.
Ok I’m getting this now. Question: I was driving home from work today, dash temp. was reading 92f. Mostly highway driving, I pull into the garage, open the bonnet, my stock IC was only warm, the left horn was hot, the right horn was mostly cool. Now 20 minutes later I needed to leave. The IC is now very hot. Now the question: At normal driving speeds at 92f. How long will it take the IC to recover? It would seem that the stock IC would recover quickly as it is thin and small, no? Also would anyone know what the recovery times might be with a DFIC, and say a MM W2A IC? It would seem to me that a W2A IC would take much longer to recover as the water would have heated up sitting in my garage, correct? Now let’s change the scenario to lets say stopped at a stoplight after normal in town driving. Seems to me the stock IC would be the fastest at recovering or am I mistaken? Any ideas on my rambling? 
Last edited by Tüls; Jul 12, 2007 at 08:16 AM.
Thats what I'm talking about Plus ,I like Alta V1 because it looks cool
Plus ,I like Alta V1 because it looks cool so the stock is small but the area facing air (and transfering heat) is large relative to it's size... this is why I always like the V1 alta... large area not too thick.... it reconvered very fast and worked very well... even on the dyno with a small house hold fan.
this is why I always go on about area vs pressure drop etc etc... if an IC is too thick that's just as bad as not enough area... sure there are ICs that are 6 inches thick... but they are 30 inches wide and 14 inches tall.... and moreover front mounts...
.
this is why I always go on about area vs pressure drop etc etc... if an IC is too thick that's just as bad as not enough area... sure there are ICs that are 6 inches thick... but they are 30 inches wide and 14 inches tall.... and moreover front mounts...
.
Banned
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 4,862
Likes: 3
From: Fresno Ca.
From what I have seen most of the W2A have a timer for after the car is shut down it keeps pumping the water for 5 minutes or something... that is good... and will help avoid heat soak...
as for recovery of others... area being cooled is everything... so the stock is small but the area facing air (and transfering heat) is large relative to it's size... this is why I always like the V1 alta... large area not too thick.... it reconvered very fast and worked very well... even on the dyno with a small house hold fan.
this is why I always go on about area vs pressure drop etc etc... if an IC is too thick that's just as bad as not enough area... sure there are ICs that are 6 inches thick... but they are 30 inches wide and 14 inches tall.... and moreover front mounts...
this is one of those questions that goes back to what I said ealier... ultimately... DOES IT WORK?! LOL In all honesty... this can get silly...This is why I always talk about my findings as a mini owner who went out and did it my self. There is alot of "kool aid" out there... and once someone finds the one they like they tend to talk about it as if it's the best bar none...even if it's not the best. So I decided to learn more about "Kool Aid" so that I could learn how to mix it my self to get a fine mixure of any of the brands to make a nice blend.... LOL
To properly evaluate an intercooler you would need: the SC air flow through the intercooler; the pressure and temperature of the air from the sc; the intercooler outlet temperature and pressure; the outside air temperature; and either the mix temperature of the cooling air as it leaves the intercooler or the flow rate of that air. That's a lot of info, and I'm not going to pretend that a vendor would make all that available to you, or that they would even collect all that data. I'm sure that the majority of the vendors selling bigger intercoolers have a trial and error process that they use to design their offerings....some accually put forth a real engineering effort. heck I hated doing formulas till I started applying it to stuff like this, then it was a game, with a real out come. Once the #s were done, build it and go to the DYNO!
But, if they did do all that testing, and they would release the info, I would then use that data to figure out the amount of heat transferred *Q and the ****DTlm, and then calculate the **UA value for the intercooler. I would compare various intercooler's UA values and choose the one with the highest UA since that will give you the highest Q (most heat transferred) and the best DTlm (closest approach).
The difference between the intercooler outlet temperature and the outside air temperature is called the approach. If it is 100 degrees outside and your intercooler cools the air going into the intake manifold down to 140 degrees, then you have an approach of 40 degrees. an approach of 20 degrees is would be pretty impressive for a top mount and is considered good for a front mount
*Q is the amount of energy that is transferred.
**U is called the heat transfer coefficient. It is a measure of how well the exchanger transfers heat. The bigger the number, the better the transfer.
**A is the heat transfer area, or the surface area of the intercooler tubes and fins that is exposed to the outside air.
****DTlm is called the log mean temperature difference. It is an indication of the "driving force", or the overall average difference in temperature between the hot and cold fluids.
as for recovery of others... area being cooled is everything... so the stock is small but the area facing air (and transfering heat) is large relative to it's size... this is why I always like the V1 alta... large area not too thick.... it reconvered very fast and worked very well... even on the dyno with a small house hold fan.
this is why I always go on about area vs pressure drop etc etc... if an IC is too thick that's just as bad as not enough area... sure there are ICs that are 6 inches thick... but they are 30 inches wide and 14 inches tall.... and moreover front mounts...
this is one of those questions that goes back to what I said ealier... ultimately... DOES IT WORK?! LOL In all honesty... this can get silly...This is why I always talk about my findings as a mini owner who went out and did it my self. There is alot of "kool aid" out there... and once someone finds the one they like they tend to talk about it as if it's the best bar none...even if it's not the best. So I decided to learn more about "Kool Aid" so that I could learn how to mix it my self to get a fine mixure of any of the brands to make a nice blend.... LOL
To properly evaluate an intercooler you would need: the SC air flow through the intercooler; the pressure and temperature of the air from the sc; the intercooler outlet temperature and pressure; the outside air temperature; and either the mix temperature of the cooling air as it leaves the intercooler or the flow rate of that air. That's a lot of info, and I'm not going to pretend that a vendor would make all that available to you, or that they would even collect all that data. I'm sure that the majority of the vendors selling bigger intercoolers have a trial and error process that they use to design their offerings....some accually put forth a real engineering effort. heck I hated doing formulas till I started applying it to stuff like this, then it was a game, with a real out come. Once the #s were done, build it and go to the DYNO!
But, if they did do all that testing, and they would release the info, I would then use that data to figure out the amount of heat transferred *Q and the ****DTlm, and then calculate the **UA value for the intercooler. I would compare various intercooler's UA values and choose the one with the highest UA since that will give you the highest Q (most heat transferred) and the best DTlm (closest approach).
The difference between the intercooler outlet temperature and the outside air temperature is called the approach. If it is 100 degrees outside and your intercooler cools the air going into the intake manifold down to 140 degrees, then you have an approach of 40 degrees. an approach of 20 degrees is would be pretty impressive for a top mount and is considered good for a front mount
*Q is the amount of energy that is transferred.
**U is called the heat transfer coefficient. It is a measure of how well the exchanger transfers heat. The bigger the number, the better the transfer.
**A is the heat transfer area, or the surface area of the intercooler tubes and fins that is exposed to the outside air.
****DTlm is called the log mean temperature difference. It is an indication of the "driving force", or the overall average difference in temperature between the hot and cold fluids.
.
Temporarily Banned
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 3,382
Likes: 2
From: Denver
At this point, I am just telling folks to stick with the stock intercooler unless they have big bucks for the good stuff.
Hope that helps!
Randy
My little dose of LITHIUM
iTrader: (1)
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 2,435
Likes: 2
From: Albuquerque New Mexico
In best case scenarios I regularly see single digit approaches, in worst case I've seen 55F (so far.) On the track, just lapping hard, I saw about 20-40F approaches. For some the challenge is to reduce the approach under these track conditions. For others, the goal is to reduce the worst case approach.
I tend to think that the track situation is the one to go for, since a low approach is pretty unhelpful while stuck in traffic... and also while cruising at 75mph on a freeway. The more time I spend on this topic (and it's been a long time now) the more I think it's fun, but ultimately pointless given the extremely high variances we experience in all driving conditions. It's not like we're running the 24hrs of LM.
Anyway, as always, an interesting discussion.
IAT was 10-15 degrees warmer than stock with the same ambient and coolant temps. It only took about 4 laps to see this - and the boost was lower as well (don't remember the numbers off the top of my head).
At this point, I am just telling folks to stick with the stock intercooler unless they have big bucks for the good stuff.
Hope that helps!
Randy
At this point, I am just telling folks to stick with the stock intercooler unless they have big bucks for the good stuff.
Hope that helps!
Randy
__________________
2013 GP2 #295, 270whp/310wtq, KO4 47mm Turbo, 18" NM Wheels, Alta intake, Manic Stage III+, HFS-3 Meth, 30% E85 Blend, Forged IC, Alta Hot Pipe, P&P/Ceramic Exhaust Manifold, m3 Extreme Ceramic DP, Vibrant mid res, 4" Double walled Tips, WMW/KW V3 CO, Alta Rear CA, CREE Fogs, Black out F/R Rings and Gas Cap, M7 CF Front Splitter, and No Stickers. MORE TO COME!! Previous 04Triple Black 17% Alta, MM Air/H2O, CAI, OBX Header, FBT Head, Shrick Cam, 234whp
2013 GP2 #295, 270whp/310wtq, KO4 47mm Turbo, 18" NM Wheels, Alta intake, Manic Stage III+, HFS-3 Meth, 30% E85 Blend, Forged IC, Alta Hot Pipe, P&P/Ceramic Exhaust Manifold, m3 Extreme Ceramic DP, Vibrant mid res, 4" Double walled Tips, WMW/KW V3 CO, Alta Rear CA, CREE Fogs, Black out F/R Rings and Gas Cap, M7 CF Front Splitter, and No Stickers. MORE TO COME!! Previous 04Triple Black 17% Alta, MM Air/H2O, CAI, OBX Header, FBT Head, Shrick Cam, 234whp
To answer an earlier question - I use the Gintani on the Mule...
Without the load of the TK kit, I never saw any problem at all, mostly due the larger reservoir I use on the Mule - which is key to a w2a.
In the case of intercoolers, so far, you really do get what you pay for. The Pace and Gintani are a couple of the few that work.
Hope that helps!
Randy
Without the load of the TK kit, I never saw any problem at all, mostly due the larger reservoir I use on the Mule - which is key to a w2a.
In the case of intercoolers, so far, you really do get what you pay for. The Pace and Gintani are a couple of the few that work.
Hope that helps!
Randy
I have used several w2a intercoolers, as well as DFIC style, larger top mounts and a front mount. Front mount a2a is the most efficient on the track, but difficult to make work correctly with packaging issues we have. w2a are hit and miss depending on the design. The Gintani is outstanding. The jacketed coolers work OK, but you need to make sure the capacity is large enough to both take the thermal load and be somewhere else long enough to remove that huge thermal sink even with the much higher thermal mass of water. The DFIC did not work at all on the track - the stock was better. The top mounts are hit and miss as well, with one in particular working decently on the track, but only marginally better after time than the stock unit.
All of that is my TRACK experience with different intercooler styles.
Hope that helps!
Randy
All of that is my TRACK experience with different intercooler styles.
Hope that helps!
Randy
IAT was 10-15 degrees warmer than stock with the same ambient and coolant temps. It only took about 4 laps to see this - and the boost was lower as well (don't remember the numbers off the top of my head).
At this point, I am just telling folks to stick with the stock intercooler unless they have big bucks for the good stuff.
Hope that helps!
Randy
At this point, I am just telling folks to stick with the stock intercooler unless they have big bucks for the good stuff.
Hope that helps!
Randy
Well, that is big bucks but I'm not going to spend $3000+ for an Air/water intercooler. I have have heard great things from everyone that has a MM air/water. I don't track my car, I just drive very hard around town (stop light to stop light). In the past I have had the Alta stock diverter, V1 Alta intercooler w/diverter, DFIC with Aerogel. Now I'm waiting for my Mini Madness and I guess I will reuse my Aerogel.
I will let everyone know if there is a difference between all of them. If all else fails I will save all my penny's for the Fireballed turbo kit with air/water cooler.
I will let everyone know if there is a difference between all of them. If all else fails I will save all my penny's for the Fireballed turbo kit with air/water cooler.
__________________
2013 GP2 #295, 270whp/310wtq, KO4 47mm Turbo, 18" NM Wheels, Alta intake, Manic Stage III+, HFS-3 Meth, 30% E85 Blend, Forged IC, Alta Hot Pipe, P&P/Ceramic Exhaust Manifold, m3 Extreme Ceramic DP, Vibrant mid res, 4" Double walled Tips, WMW/KW V3 CO, Alta Rear CA, CREE Fogs, Black out F/R Rings and Gas Cap, M7 CF Front Splitter, and No Stickers. MORE TO COME!! Previous 04Triple Black 17% Alta, MM Air/H2O, CAI, OBX Header, FBT Head, Shrick Cam, 234whp
2013 GP2 #295, 270whp/310wtq, KO4 47mm Turbo, 18" NM Wheels, Alta intake, Manic Stage III+, HFS-3 Meth, 30% E85 Blend, Forged IC, Alta Hot Pipe, P&P/Ceramic Exhaust Manifold, m3 Extreme Ceramic DP, Vibrant mid res, 4" Double walled Tips, WMW/KW V3 CO, Alta Rear CA, CREE Fogs, Black out F/R Rings and Gas Cap, M7 CF Front Splitter, and No Stickers. MORE TO COME!! Previous 04Triple Black 17% Alta, MM Air/H2O, CAI, OBX Header, FBT Head, Shrick Cam, 234whp
Temporarily Banned
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 3,382
Likes: 2
From: Denver
Yeah, that's why I recommend the stock one for most - too big an investment.
The MM is a good unit, but there needs to be a larger reservoir, which is easy to make. I don't know what pump they use, but that is an important part too - you can't have too much flow, because then the thermal mass doesn't spend enough time in the radiator, but it can't sit too long in the heat sink either.
Hope that helps!
Randy
The MM is a good unit, but there needs to be a larger reservoir, which is easy to make. I don't know what pump they use, but that is an important part too - you can't have too much flow, because then the thermal mass doesn't spend enough time in the radiator, but it can't sit too long in the heat sink either.
Hope that helps!
Randy
6th Gear
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 5,149
Likes: 0
Yeah, that's why I recommend the stock one for most - too big an investment.
The MM is a good unit, but there needs to be a larger reservoir, which is easy to make. I don't know what pump they use, but that is an important part too - you can't have too much flow, because then the thermal mass doesn't spend enough time in the radiator, but it can't sit too long in the heat sink either.
Hope that helps!
Randy
The MM is a good unit, but there needs to be a larger reservoir, which is easy to make. I don't know what pump they use, but that is an important part too - you can't have too much flow, because then the thermal mass doesn't spend enough time in the radiator, but it can't sit too long in the heat sink either.
Hope that helps!
Randy
what size pump (cfm?) and reservoir are you suggesting?
Yeah, that's why I recommend the stock one for most - too big an investment.
The MM is a good unit, but there needs to be a larger reservoir, which is easy to make. I don't know what pump they use, but that is an important part too - you can't have too much flow, because then the thermal mass doesn't spend enough time in the radiator, but it can't sit too long in the heat sink either.
Hope that helps!
Randy
The MM is a good unit, but there needs to be a larger reservoir, which is easy to make. I don't know what pump they use, but that is an important part too - you can't have too much flow, because then the thermal mass doesn't spend enough time in the radiator, but it can't sit too long in the heat sink either.
Hope that helps!
Randy
M
__________________
2013 GP2 #295, 270whp/310wtq, KO4 47mm Turbo, 18" NM Wheels, Alta intake, Manic Stage III+, HFS-3 Meth, 30% E85 Blend, Forged IC, Alta Hot Pipe, P&P/Ceramic Exhaust Manifold, m3 Extreme Ceramic DP, Vibrant mid res, 4" Double walled Tips, WMW/KW V3 CO, Alta Rear CA, CREE Fogs, Black out F/R Rings and Gas Cap, M7 CF Front Splitter, and No Stickers. MORE TO COME!! Previous 04Triple Black 17% Alta, MM Air/H2O, CAI, OBX Header, FBT Head, Shrick Cam, 234whp
2013 GP2 #295, 270whp/310wtq, KO4 47mm Turbo, 18" NM Wheels, Alta intake, Manic Stage III+, HFS-3 Meth, 30% E85 Blend, Forged IC, Alta Hot Pipe, P&P/Ceramic Exhaust Manifold, m3 Extreme Ceramic DP, Vibrant mid res, 4" Double walled Tips, WMW/KW V3 CO, Alta Rear CA, CREE Fogs, Black out F/R Rings and Gas Cap, M7 CF Front Splitter, and No Stickers. MORE TO COME!! Previous 04Triple Black 17% Alta, MM Air/H2O, CAI, OBX Header, FBT Head, Shrick Cam, 234whp
Temporarily Banned
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 3,382
Likes: 2
From: Denver
Bob,
It is totally dependent on the system. It just takes testing to figure it out. On the reservoir, the bigger the better, but remember that you are adding weight - IIRC, 8 lbs/gallon of water.
MarioKart - totally agreed! Just giving you ideas...
Hope that helps!
Randy
It is totally dependent on the system. It just takes testing to figure it out. On the reservoir, the bigger the better, but remember that you are adding weight - IIRC, 8 lbs/gallon of water.
MarioKart - totally agreed! Just giving you ideas...
Hope that helps!
Randy
6th Gear
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 5,149
Likes: 0
Bob,
It is totally dependent on the system. It just takes testing to figure it out. On the reservoir, the bigger the better, but remember that you are adding weight - IIRC, 8 lbs/gallon of water.
MarioKart - totally agreed! Just giving you ideas...
Hope that helps!
Randy
It is totally dependent on the system. It just takes testing to figure it out. On the reservoir, the bigger the better, but remember that you are adding weight - IIRC, 8 lbs/gallon of water.
MarioKart - totally agreed! Just giving you ideas...
Hope that helps!
Randy
is there a Gintani website... It did not show up on google - at least the first page
Turbius Maximus
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 4,416
Likes: 0
From: Infinity and beyond
I spoke with a W2A mfg (no name intentional) who says he likes the smallest res possible to keep the water moving.... he also shared some specifics which would not be fair for me to share here... as usual, the experts do not agree.
is there a Gintani website... It did not show up on google - at least the first page
is there a Gintani website... It did not show up on google - at least the first page
for me the A2A works great every day... if I was purely racing... I would use a w2a becuse I could pack the res with ice or something to cool the air temps to an unsussually low temp....
with all of this we should all remember... you have to tune for such changes... when I put that huge front mount on... the increase in air density was so high that I had to make sure my tune was still good....
now in most cases, if you put a pulley on... the air is hotter... so adding a bigger top mount is helpful. not nearly drastic enough though to need a retune... unless like in certain cases where it's now in efficient and too hot... resulting in detonation and the breaking of a ring land... which we have seen a few times through out the community...
so a W2A does allow for you to run temps so cool from having a cooling liquid beyond water... you may need to tune accordingly... this is where things like an AFC with multipule tunes are handy... have you daily tune.. and your "weekend" tune... LOL
6th Gear
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 5,149
Likes: 0
looks great..... what a price?????
:impatient 