Sorry to all if this has been discussed before, but I'd like start a discussion on intercoolers. There are several types out there, and I would like to get some feedback on the best type as I am looking to upgrade mine. I am thinking there are three main types, larger (JCW GRS), DF (M7 Alta), and water, (mini madness). What are the pro's and con's that you have found?

T

 

I think water is the best. I've had one for about two years. I've found that when it gets hot a have more consistent power than an air cooled. Mine's not from Mini Maddness. I got mine from a different vender. You do add a little weight, but gain more consistent power.

 

I'm very interested in how you measure, and judge, this factor. How did you come to the conclusion it offers more consistent power? Have you measured power, or other performance related factors (acceleration, time to 60mph, time from 50-80mph, etc.)? Have you measured temperatures across the IC, or IATs? How does it perform over ranges of ambient temps?

If we had these measurements we could compare them with those provided for A2A intercoolers like the DFIC.

thanks,

 

Only on a dyno. We had 3 cars run on the same day under the same conditions. Mine was the only one that after 3 runs that was within 3 HP and about 3 lbs of torque from first to last run. The others lost about 12 HP and am not sure how much TQ.

 

There is no moving air on a dyno and the W2A is far superior at the dyno..... there all kinds of conflicting opinions on this topic and I would love to see a good discussion as well...... I have learned that what works well on 200 and under cars does not necessarily work well for 200+ cars..... Tuls has a lot of experience with the W2A hopefully he will post....

I recently did an experiment with a different IC and removed the DFIC.... I found that on my car the IATs were far closer to ambient with the DFIC than with the large TMIC..... pressure drop was neglegible.....

 

also, you maybe only add 5 or 7 pounds at the most

 

A gallon of water is a known weight plus the aparatus

 

exaclty... some people say the draw back to the water to air is weight... i can assure you the differnce is minimal... also, most of these kits do not utilize a gallon of water...

seriously... the madness water to air was one of the best mods i had done

 

I only hear negatives from people who do not have them... those that have them love them....hmmmmmm

 

I just got myself the GRS IC that is yet to be installed here sitting in my bedroom floor. I can tell you that from talking to people and the shop owner that has installed this unit everyone was very pleased with the way it made a difference on their car. It has been said to have the best core made compared to other a2a units. jm2c.

 

My question with the W2A IC's, is why when Formula 1 and Indy cars used to run Turbos and IC's did they not run W2A but only A2A, you would think this would have been the ultimate test bed, what you think, Any ideas?

 

I'm not sure but maybe it's the radiator and were to put it, along with the hoses. There's not much room in there.

 

The weight is a issue and is at least 10 to 15 lbs . The water alone is close to eight per gallon. If you do not have at LEAST a gallon in the loop you will attain heat soak way to fast. Add in the completely enclosed IC ,hoses, clamps additional radiator etc and you only get 5 to 7? Must be that new math .

Randy
M7 Tuning

 

You are trying to compare apples to rhubarb. Track driving/racing with sustained speeds and very high revs, as in F1 and IRL, is quite different from the type of driving that most of us do.

If your car is going to be a dedicated race car or on the track a lot, then, IMO, you might lean towards one of the better air-to-air intercoolers. However, a good water-to-air intercooler, e.g., the Gintani system, the Madness unit or others, might be a good choice for spirited city/highway/canyon driving. With that said, the water-to-air intercoolers have been used quite successfully in MINI's on the track.

You need to decide the kind of driving you'll be doing, your budget and aesthetic views. After that, pick an IC that best suits your requirements. If you're like a lot of the people on this forum, most of the aftermarket products should be o.k. Again, IMO, the stock intercooler, perhaps with better connecting boots, is a more-than-adequate unit for the majority of our driving needs.

Good luck...

 

My Air/water is being made right now and should be in my hands next week, once the powedercoating is done. I'm have only heard great things from the owners and from my test drive, even the hot side was cool to the touch. I know heat is a huge hp killer on our cars. My Mini dyno'd at 234whp with a air/air, the second run was 205whp and the third was 185whp. The Air/water wont make me hp but it will help me keep what I got.
They are not cheap but I'm running out of options to make HP, I need to save a lot more penny's to get my turbo only kit.
mario

 

One thing to keep in mind when considering a water-to-air intercooler, such as the Gintani system, is the net gain in weight. It should be noted that the stock intercooler, plenums, boots and intake manifold are removed when the Gintani system is used. In my car the net gain, including 1.5 gallons of cooling water, was about 20 pounds. IMO, when calculating power-to-weight ratios, the small additional weight is truly trivial.

Cheers...

 

Thanks for the info . But I would not totally dismiss this as "apples to rhubarb" I would bet 90% of all car mods come directly from racing developments. But I do understand you in that F1 and IRL do have constant airflow across their IC's. This would be a major factor.

 

10 lbs.......12 h.p. i'll go on a diet for that kind of ratio . from all i've read here on nam ; i'd say the wto air is superior for the moderate to agressive driving but when at the track ; well then it gets overworked . so it falls to driving style . yeah?

 

 

How much do you think this weighs? Water and Air 2 Air

 

I could be wrong, but didn't Randy Webb use the Gintani W2A on his race car? I don't know if he had any problems with this application, but his results certainly didn't suffer.

Also, what about the Madness race car? Did it use their W2A or an A2A unit?

 

Hi Randy... its been a while since we have done battle...

so... how many of these have you installed?

How many of these have you tested?

Thats funny... maybe we should all just by your dfic

That heat soaked intercooler sure does keep dyno runs consistant? strange... isn't it... well... i guess us with these intercoolers will just keep enjoying our consistant power... while the dfic cars heat soak and dyno numbers fall off...

have fun...

 

and seriouly 10-15 pounds is going to change the world? i don't think so... use the restroom before you go out and wear flip flops instead of shoes... clean out your wallet... don't wear a hat... empty your ashtray of change... that should make up the differnce.

 

go to the gym. Tredmill works wonders

 

saddly I do that before going out on saturday nights........