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FWIW, I recently installed the B4 struts and feel like they are a good value. A bit firm, yes.....but they did “break in” a bit after a few hundred miles and feel pretty comfortable now and handling is great.
also.....I have used the Ireland engineering fixed plates on a previous car.....they are good quality. That said, I went a different route on my most recent car.....chose to use new stock strut bearings bolted to these camber plates....
this guy makes really good quality aftermarket parts and sells on eBay. Put together with stock strut bearings, they are essentially the exact same thing as the IE plates.....difference being that you bolt a stock bearing to these whereas the IE plates have modified bearings permanently attached to the plates. I went this route because I could get new bearings and the plates total for less than the set of IE plates......also, if I ever blow a bearing on a pothole, I can just get a new bearing from anywhere and reuse the plate.....with the IE, you have to get a whole new unit from only a handful of vendors and wait for it to arrive. My main reasoning was the cost savings, though.
FWIW, I recently installed the B4 struts and feel like they are a good value. A bit firm, yes.....but they did “break in” a bit after a few hundred miles and feel pretty comfortable now and handling is great.
also.....I have used the Ireland engineering fixed plates on a previous car.....they are good quality. That said, I went a different route on my most recent car.....chose to use new stock strut bearings bolted to these camber plates....
this guy makes really good quality aftermarket parts and sells on eBay. Put together with stock strut bearings, they are essentially the exact same thing as the IE plates.....difference being that you bolt a stock bearing to these whereas the IE plates have modified bearings permanently attached to the plates. I went this route because I could get new bearings and the plates total for less than the set of IE plates......also, if I ever blow a bearing on a pothole, I can just get a new bearing from anywhere and reuse the plate.....with the IE, you have to get a whole new unit from only a handful of vendors and wait for it to arrive. My main reasoning was the cost savings, though.
Thank you for that money saving tip - the IE plates are steeeep for what you seem to be getting - unless they use a superior bearing assembly in their strut mounts ? Living in Qatar the postage costs can be as much as the parts themselves, so have to watch the pennies.
So after a weekend of searching online, I've ordered these 'Nebraska' camber plates, FAI strut top mounts, and a set of Bilstein B4 shocks. Apparently only the rear shocks come with new bump stops, so I had to order extra bump stops for the front shocks. I am expecting the rubber shock boots will be reusable.
I checked the strut towers for mushrooming and seems I will need to correct this with a piece of hard 4 by 2 and my trusted lump hammer.
That strange noise that I thought the steering seemed to be making, is now quite obviously the broken strut top mount 'rubber on rubber' as it turns inside itself when the steering is turned.
I suppose its a case of good news (steering is ok) and bad news (need to replace the strut mounts and shocks)
It is a little hard to find details about the IE plate. When I got my first set about 10 years ago, it was reported on NAM that the bearings they use are those originally used on the BMW Z3. It is heavier/strong that the OEM MINI bearing. It is noticeable in a slight increase in the stiffness in this area. So this is what goes into their added cost.
Another note, when I replaced the shocks on our 04 MINI (with only about 63k miles) the OEM bearings needed to be replaced. So, replacement of the OEM bearing may need to be considered in an arrangement that uses the OEM bearings. Although, the deterioration in ours may have may have been accelerated by the abuse they take in our NE winters here in the US.
Last edited by Eddie07S; Nov 1, 2018 at 09:02 AM.
Reason: changed 10 hrs to 10 years, oops
Curious as to why you didn't like them on the track?
Just installed them on mine and plan to track it occasionally.
I bought them for my ‘07 S based on the experience of a friend who also tracks his R53 MINI. It has been a long time since I have driven with them on the track, so my memory is a little fuzzy on details, but I seem to remember liking them better than the stock shocks, But, I am a more aggressive driver than my friend and ultimately I found the FSDs to be too soft for my liking. When I purchased my 2012 S, I opted for the sports suspension that MINI offers with stiffer shocks, springs and sway bars, which was much more to my liking. When the stock MINI shocks “died” on this car, I replaced them with Bilstein B8s, which work really well for me.
My friend tracks his MINI a lot and still likes the FSDs, so I guess I would say it is a matter of preference. You will be fine on the track with them. But, like with any modification, ease into them when you first go out and learn what they do for you and how they change the response of the car before pushing it. I would really like to hear about your experience with them.
I bought them for my ‘07 S based on the experience of a friend who also tracks his R53 MINI. It has been a long time since I have driven with them on the track, so my memory is a little fuzzy on details, but I seem to remember liking them better than the stock shocks, But, I am a more aggressive driver than my friend and ultimately I found the FSDs to be too soft for my liking. When I purchased my 2012 S, I opted for the sports suspension that MINI offers with stiffer shocks, springs and sway bars, which was much more to my liking. When the stock MINI shocks “died” on this car, I replaced them with Bilstein B8s, which work really well for me.
My friend tracks his MINI a lot and still likes the FSDs, so I guess I would say it is a matter of preference. You will be fine on the track with them. But, like with any modification, ease into them when you first go out and learn what they do for you and how they change the response of the car before pushing it. I would really like to hear about your experience with them.
Good to know! Did you track the Bilstein B8s and like them more? Sounds like you found them a little more firm and preferable for that reason?
I have never tracked a FWD car before, let alone the Mini, so I'm looking forward to the experience. I'll let you know how things go!
Good to know! Did you track the Bilstein B8s and like them more? Sounds like you found them a little more firm and preferable for that reason?
I have never tracked a FWD car before, let alone the Mini, so I'm looking forward to the experience. I'll let you know how things go!
Yes and yes. For the road, the B8s do a good job of taking out the sharp, jarring bumps much like the FSDs do (The FSDs do a better job of that). For the track, they offer a higher level of control than the FSDs, of which part is increased stiffness.
If you have put in a large rear swaybar, just remember that, if the backend starts to come around on you, it is not a power-on caused oversteer and getting off the gas (as you would in a RWD) will likely send you off the track. You want to get on the gas more. Otherwise the MINI is just like any other momentum car. Have fun.
It is a little hard to find details about the IE plate. When I got my first set about 10 hrs ago, it was reported on NAM that the bearings they use are those originally used on the BMW Z3. It is heavier/strong that the OEM MINI bearing. It is noticeable in a slight increase in the stiffness in this area. So this is what goes into their added cost.
Another note, when I replaced the shocks on our 04 MINI (with only about 63k miles) the OEM bearings needed to be replaced. So, replacement of the OEM bearing may need to be considered in an arrangement that uses the OEM bearings. Although, the deterioration in ours may have may have been accelerated by the abuse they take in our NE winters here in the US.
Thank you for that information on the bearings used by IE - but I'm curious now as to what actually causes the rubber in the strut top mount to crack apart like it does and what part the bearings might play in preventing that. The way I understand it (without actually having disassembled my strut assembly yet) the upward force generated by driving over a bump in the road, is dampened somewhat by the shock absorber, but some is still transmitted through to the strut top mount rubber, which also dampens the force somewhat. But after a period of time, depending on frequency and severity of the bumps driven over, the resulting forces will eventually wear out and tear through the rubber which is what causes the failure. Or is the failure related to the bearing itself somehow ? Or both ? Or one leads to the other ?
Also, if the shock absorber itself is dead, then I guess its not absorbing much of the shock, which is then fully transmitted through the strut bumpstop and strut mount bearing to the rubber in the strut top mount - causing it to crack apart.
Thank you for that information on the bearings used by IE - but I'm curious now as to what actually causes the rubber in the strut top mount to crack apart like it does and what part the bearings might play in preventing that. The way I understand it (without actually having disassembled my strut assembly yet) the upward force generated by driving over a bump in the road, is dampened somewhat by the shock absorber, but some is still transmitted through to the strut top mount rubber, which also dampens the force somewhat. But after a period of time, depending on frequency and severity of the bumps driven over, the resulting forces will eventually wear out and tear through the rubber which is what causes the failure. Or is the failure related to the bearing itself somehow ? Or both ? Or one leads to the other ?
Also, if the shock absorber itself is dead, then I guess its not absorbing much of the shock, which is then fully transmitted through the strut bumpstop and strut mount bearing to the rubber in the strut top mount - causing it to crack apart.
Not exactly sure. Your first assumption sounds like the most likely. The time and cyclic loading. If the shock is dead, it generally will transmit less force. That is, if you have the shock out and you put one end on the ground and push on the other end, it will collapse easier than a good shock. That said, your second scenario might also happen as that weak shock allows the suspension to bottom out which will really load up the rubber in that upper support. Also, consider the heat that it has been in. Heat and time will cause rubber to deteriorate.
Not exactly sure. Your first assumption sounds like the most likely. The time and cyclic loading. If the shock is dead, it generally will transmit less force. That is, if you have the shock out and you put one end on the ground and push on the other end, it will collapse easier than a good shock. That said, your second scenario might also happen as that weak shock allows the suspension to bottom out which will really load up the rubber in that upper support. Also, consider the heat that it has been in. Heat and time will cause rubber to deteriorate.
So I'm wondering if there is actually any benefit to the 'heavier' bearings in the IE plates - given that the rubber itself in the mount seems to be the weak link.
Like Fastlane wrote, the bilstein B4 struts do break in after a few hundred miles.
Initially, the ride was stiff and a little harsh. Now that the car has almost 8K after the strut replacement, I can say the ride has softened just a bit to the point that it is no longer harsh. When pushing the car through the corners it feels planted and unfazed by the speed. Road surfaces here are good to great so we don't have to worry too much about rough pavement except for SF streets near the university (slow speed, so nothing too bumpy).
So I'm wondering if there is actually any benefit to the 'heavier' bearings in the IE plates - given that the rubber itself in the mount seems to be the weak link.
I believe the rubber is heaver also. I may have mis-spoke a bit in just saying "bearing". The whole assembly is more beefy than the stock MINI unit as the Z3 is a heavier car. I have 7 years on mine with quite a number of track days and they are holding up well. Then again, mine don't see the heat that yours will see. To be honest, I wasn't thinking of longevity when I got mine; just looked to get the added camber. But, after getting them, I found that they are stiffer (better for handling) although they are not so stiff that they transmit much more noise and/or vibration to the car. A good compromise for road and track.
So I had some goodies delivered this weekend...Bilstein B4 shock and strut kit, Nebraska camber plates and strut top mounts ... Nebraska Camber plates look pretty cool - like the way they bolt into the strut top mount - can replace just the strut top mount on its own in future. These strut top mounts didn't come with the washer that goes underneath the bearings and sits on the strut shaft - will need to recycle the old one. Pretty substantial bumpstops for the front struts - not much suspension travel I'm guessing with these fitted - Solid looking shocks - again pretty substantial bumpstops compared to the length of the strut shaft - I guess not much by way of suspension travel again
Has anyone tried trimming the bumpstops down a little to allow a bit more suspension travel before bottoming out ? Should improve handling I'm guessing - and maybe even softer over bumpy roads ?
Last edited by QatarJCWR53; Nov 4, 2018 at 02:10 AM.
Reason: correction
I only see three shocks there. You got a three-wheel MINI there?
I crack me up.
I haven’t seen the need to trim the bump stops on either of our MINIs. They seem pretty well designed to work unnoticeable with the stock height springs. People do trim them, but I think it is done when people put in lowering springs.
Like Eddie wrote, if you’re going to stay at stock height, the bump stops do not need to be trimmed.
With H-sport lowering springs, our R53 dropped about 20mm so I trimmed the rear B4 bump about that much (from the top portion) and 20mm from the front stop (lower portion)
I only see three shocks there. You got a three-wheel MINI there?
I crack me up.
I haven’t seen the need to trim the bump stops on either of our MINIs. They seem pretty well designed to work unnoticeable with the stock height springs. People do trim them, but I think it is done when people put in lowering springs.
As its you Eddie .....
Just spent 100 riyal on coil spring compressors- to be on the safe side
Like Eddie wrote, if you’re going to stay at stock height, the bump stops do not need to be trimmed.
With H-sport lowering springs, our R53 dropped about 20mm so I trimmed the rear B4 bump about that much (from the top portion) and 20mm from the front stop (lower portion)
Thanks- its plenty low enough for our bumpy roads here. Helps being low anyway by design, especially when compared to the newer Mini. Maxi more like.
Ok so yesterday I decided to do the suspension install, having watched ModMini swapping in new coilovers on a R53, practically with his eyes shut (and air impact wrench to hand !). What could possibly go wrong ??
Well I managed to get the front struts out fairly quickly - 3 nuts on top, one anti-roll bar link bolt, and one bolt in the steering knuckle - no issues. Done in half an hour from jacking the car up.
Then tried taking them apart.
I had to go spend over an hour driving around various tool shops looking for a 21mm deep socket, with a hexagonal shaped outer top and hole down the middle for the allen key.
In the end a 21mm spark plug socket worked - but that nut at the top of the strut shaft, holding everything on, was seized solid.
In the process of trying to turn it, I managed to 'round out' the allen key fitting, in the top of the strut shaft. Panic stations.
The allen key, was obviously made of harder steel. This is where a heavy duty impact wrench would have saved a lot of time and effort I think.
Ended up going down to a local garage and getting them to blast it out with their air impact wrench.
The old shocks were completely dead - with one finger I was able to push the shaft all the way into the body and it stayed in there permanently. I pulled it out with finger and thumb with hardly any effort.
Then cleaned the coil springs and the 2 rubber trims (ditched the bumpstops).
Started putting it all back together and found that the new strut top nuts are 22mm !!
So tried using a deep round socket that I had, but this time gripped with locking pliers, with allen key down the middle. Did the job - at last some good luck !
I tightened them up well, but still need to torque them up to specification.
The Nebraska camber plates were surprisingly easy to fit. They have raised the front a little bit and it is noticeable, but the overall look of the car is pretty much bang on level.
Then the install. Top nuts very easy, but getting the bottom into the steering knuckle is a PITA ! As it happens the new Bilstein shock body is very slightly larger in diameter than the oem shocks.
So I had a hell of a job getting them in. Had to hammer a fat screwdriver into the back of the steering knuckle to open up the hole. You have to firstly move the knuckle around and lever the shock up, to get it to squeeze into its hole. All the time I was banging on the steering knuckle with a hammer to get the shock to slip into place. The lower control arm, whilst bolted into place, can only drop by so much, until it reaches its limit. It was only a matter of 5 mm but it was hard work. I hammered the mushroomed strut towers back down - it wasn't actually as hard as I thought it would be.
If I ever have to do that job again, it would take a lot less than the 5 hours that it did yesterday.
The rear shocks will get done another day, as I was absolutely shattered by this time. Took it for a quick drive and to be honest from what everyone was saying, I was expecting a harder ride. But they feel absolutely fine. There is no pulling to either side. The steering feels lighter and no more strange sounds. Not quite sure how the camber plates work to give the car some negative camber up front, but didn't really notice any difference to the steering feel. I have some pics to upload.
Oh i remember dealing with fitting the struts into the knuckles now.....I also had a hell of a time getting them to “slip” down in.....they eventually went, though.
The camber plates provide negative camber by pulling the top of the strut further towards the inside of the car......and thus “tilting” the top of the front wheels inward (negative camber). In doing so, your alignment is gonna be off by quite a bit now.....so be sure to get an alignment done soon. After that, you’ll be surprised how much more lively the steering response is.
Ive had bigger rear sway bars in a couple of my MINIs......honestly, I don’t feel much need for a bigger bar on this car with the camber plates.....at least nothing bigger than maybe a 19mm anyway. Front camber really makes the car feel very planted IMO. If I autocrossed, maybe I’d feel differently, but my car is just for “around town fun” and occasional trips to mountain twisties.
btw, when you do the rears, be prepared to figure out how the included washer is used compared to the stock struts. The stock struts have a beveled washer that goes between the strut stem and the mount.....don’t reuse it on the new struts as they don’t have this beveled surface....if you do, you’ll encounter noise issues for one. I think there’s debate whether you are supposed to use the included flat washer under or over the strut mount. I put it under the mount and then reused the stock hardware above the mount. Honestly I don’t think it makes a whole lot of difference either way.
