When you click on links to various merchants on this site and make a purchase, this can result in this site earning a commission. Affiliate programs and affiliations include, but are not limited to, the eBay Partner Network.
I have seen only one issue with fuel gages over the years. Seems like it isn’t a significant issue in general. Not sure what a search will show up, but here is the one I know of; https://www.northamericanmotoring.co...eshooting.html
I know it is for a Countryman, but maybe it will give a hint. Good luck with it.
Last edited by Eddie07S; Sep 4, 2018 at 01:18 PM.
Reason: typo
I have seen only one issue with fuel gages over the years. Seems like it isn’t a significant issue in general. Not sure what a search will show up, but here is the one I know of; https://www.northamericanmotoring.co...eshooting.html
I know it is for a Countryman, but maybe it will give a hint. Good luck with it.
hi thanks for the info- seems to have sorted itself out.
i'm out in the little beasty now- big smiles
Ok so fitted a new set of tyres (Riken 215 45 ZR17 - 'Ultra High Performance' version - pics below) and got the wheel alignment done too. The choice of tyre was down to bang for buck as usual - the OEM Bridgestone runflats cost almost 3 times the Rikens, and given where I'll be driving most of the time, it was a no brainer. Has anyone else tried the Rikens ?
Initial reactions are mixed - that noise that was so deafening has gone (we can hear that whine a bit better now). I thought the noise was coming from worn wheel bearings, but seems it was actually down to the tyres being so old and badly / unevenly worn. However, feels like I have lost some of the steering sharpness and response. Not sure if that is due to very slightly bigger sidewall profile - or less stiff sidewall OR the new wheel alignment. Also, the car is pulling ever so slightly to the right - again not sure if that alignment related.
The alignment (Hunter 4 wheel alignment machine) revealed that both the toe and camber were out (print out below). They fixed the toe settings front/rear easily enough. But apparently, the JCW that I have does not have camber adjustment on either front or rear. So I currently have almost equal degree of negative camber on both sides at the rear. But, I also have over 1 degree camber difference between both sides at the front.
What do you guys think based on the above ? Could the reason for the pulling be the 1 degree cross
camber effect from the front ?
Is there any way on the R53 JCW to adjust the camber on the front ?
I took off the nuts on the front strut towers to see if there is any room to move the struts but its pretty tight.
I have heard of Riken tires but have never used them.
regarding your alignment.....it’s true that there is no camber adjustment in the front and I think that it would be relatively normal for car with stock suspension to end up with a degree difference in camber. A couple of large potholes over the years would do that pretty easily. I can’t remember from your thread, but if the struts have some age to them, one could be slightly bent or a strut mount might be sagging a bit. Then there’s LCA bushings.....if one is worse than the other, that could throw things off. When I have replaced my struts in the past, I went with camber plates in the front (fixed camber), but you can also get adjustable ones. Something to think about whenever you decide to tackle a suspension refresh. New, these cars had about zero camber in the front and some slight negative camber in the rear. Hard to say if the uneven camber is causing the pull you feel.
rear camber I believe has some minor adjustability on the 05-06 if I recall correctly....there’s an eccentric bolt on the rear control arm for that purpose. A regular alignment shop may not know that, though, because their machine says otherwise. I believe the older cars didn’t have any adjustability.
Sorry, don’t know anything about the tires. However, your feeling of a little loss steering feel is likely the difference between the RFTs and these new tires. The RFTs have very stiff sidewalls they tend to have great feel as a result. My Conti RFTs have about the steering feel as the Bridgestone RE71Rs I run on the track.
As for pulling to the right - that could be camber difference. Or it could be the way the tires react to the crowning of the road. Or it could be a difference between the left and right tires. The last one is easy to check. Just switch the 2 wheels.
While there is no camber adjustment for the front, the R56 comes with the bolt holes slotted. So that is an option; that is, add some slots. However, before doing that, the suggestion above about the shocks being damaged is a real possibility. My OEM shocks became loose between the housing and the shaft which put the camber off by over a half degree. Not sure how to check that as my OEM shocks seemed tight when I got them off, but the weight of the car was enough to move them. What I did notice was that the car became more jittery going over bumps, which made me think the shocks were shot. I didn’t connect the shock being shot with the alignment being off until I put on the new shocks and the alignment was corrrected. I know this doesn’t help, but I am following another thread where the person is reporting the same problem on a Gen I MINI; have not heard if they found a fix. But this does say that you are not alone with this problem
I have heard of Riken tires but have never used them.
regarding your alignment.....it’s true that there is no camber adjustment in the front and I think that it would be relatively normal for car with stock suspension to end up with a degree difference in camber. A couple of large potholes over the years would do that pretty easily. I can’t remember from your thread, but if the struts have some age to them, one could be slightly bent or a strut mount might be sagging a bit. Then there’s LCA bushings.....if one is worse than the other, that could throw things off. When I have replaced my struts in the past, I went with camber plates in the front (fixed camber), but you can also get adjustable ones. Something to think about whenever you decide to tackle a suspension refresh. New, these cars had about zero camber in the front and some slight negative camber in the rear. Hard to say if the uneven camber is causing the pull you feel.
rear camber I believe has some minor adjustability on the 05-06 if I recall correctly....there’s an eccentric bolt on the rear control arm for that purpose. A regular alignment shop may not know that, though, because their machine says otherwise. I believe the older cars didn’t have any adjustability.
Good points thanks. The pulling to the right is most noticeable on smooth straight roads, travelling around 60 kph and above - and it is really very slight but still noticeable.
Adjustable camber plates may well be the answer for the front - for the next phase of 'refresh'.
Rear camber is actually ok - its pretty even on both sides and should help with handling the twisty bits - which are getting fewer and fewer as they start removing the temporary 'roundabouts' in Doha and replacing them with traffic signals. Much prefer the cut and thrust of roundabouts (lift-off oversteer fun too) LOL.
Yes you are right with the later R53 models - they have a 'concentric' bolt which as you say this tyre shop didn't spot - I don't think they see many Mini Coopers LOL.
Sorry, don’t know anything about the tires. However, your feeling of a little loss steering feel is likely the difference between the RFTs and these new tires. The RFTs have very stiff sidewalls they tend to have great feel as a result. My Conti RFTs have about the steering feel as the Bridgestone RE71Rs I run on the track.
As for pulling to the right - that could be camber difference. Or it could be the way the tires react to the crowning of the road. Or it could be a difference between the left and right tires. The last one is easy to check. Just switch the 2 wheels.
While there is no camber adjustment for the front, the R56 comes with the bolt holes slotted. So that is an option; that is, add some slots. However, before doing that, the suggestion above about the shocks being damaged is a real possibility. My OEM shocks became loose between the housing and the shaft which put the camber off by over a half degree. Not sure how to check that as my OEM shocks seemed tight when I got them off, but the weight of the car was enough to move them. What I did notice was that the car became more jittery going over bumps, which made me think the shocks were shot. I didn’t connect the shock being shot with the alignment being off until I put on the new shocks and the alignment was corrrected. I know this doesn’t help, but I am following another thread where the person is reporting the same problem on a Gen I MINI; have not heard if they found a fix. But this does say that you are not alone with this problem
Thanks - I think Riken may not have cracked the US market yet - but pretty popular in the EU - apparently made in Serbia and is part of the Michelin group of brands. I actually didn't have RFTs on there before- just some cheap 'Accelera' branded tyres up front and some really worn out 'Good Ride' () tyres out back, date stamped from 2009 ! But they were 205 45 17, so slightly less sidewall - not much though.
Good idea with swapping the wheels over left to right, to see if its the tyres causing the pulling or suspension.
In terms of the shocks, what I did notice was when I pulled the plastic cup off the top of the strut, I looked in and saw some tiny ball bearings inside the top of the shock - strange never seen that before.
I'm also actually thinking that the adjustments the alignment shop made to the front toe settings, may be part of the cause of less steering feel.
FRONT LEFT - from +0'16' to +0'09'
FRONT RIGHT - from +0'02' to +0'08'
OEM is 0'09' plus or minus 0'03'
If I remember correctly positive toe means pointing inwards - so there is less positive toe on the left and more positive toe on the right.
Thinking maybe get some more positive toe on both sides of the front ?? What do you think ?
I don't know if you got around to doing your brake bleed, but I thought it was worth mentioning that the clutch hydraulic system also uses the brake fluid and reservoir. If you're going for a fluid change in addition to a bleed, then don't forget to also do the bleed at the clutch slave cylinder. Mod Mini has a video about changing the slave cylinder.
This thread reminds me of a youtube show I watch called Auto Restomod. The guys there work on restoring/repiaring classic American cars with the tools and resources a typical DIY-er might have access to. In their most recent episode they called the show "while we're here" instead of Auto Restomod because it seems that more than half of their tasks are things that maybe don't need to be done RIGHT NOW, but since we have the front end apart, or this part out, while we're here, we may as well do this other thing.
I don't know if you got around to doing your brake bleed, but I thought it was worth mentioning that the clutch hydraulic system also uses the brake fluid and reservoir. If you're going for a fluid change in addition to a bleed, then don't forget to also do the bleed at the clutch slave cylinder. Mod Mini has a video about changing the slave cylinder.
Cheers,
Duane
Thanks Duane - good reminder, didn't know that but do now Its definitely on my list of things to do, but unlike the restomod guys, this particular job we didn't do, while everything was off the car.
But I am sure we will be tinkering again soon as the weather starts to cool off nicely.
Thanks - I think Riken may not have cracked the US market yet - but pretty popular in the EU - apparently made in Serbia and is part of the Michelin group of brands. I actually didn't have RFTs on there before- just some cheap 'Accelera' branded tyres up front and some really worn out 'Good Ride' () tyres out back, date stamped from 2009 ! But they were 205 45 17, so slightly less sidewall - not much though.
Good idea with swapping the wheels over left to right, to see if its the tyres causing the pulling or suspension.
In terms of the shocks, what I did notice was when I pulled the plastic cup off the top of the strut, I looked in and saw some tiny ball bearings inside the top of the shock - strange never seen that before.
I'm also actually thinking that the adjustments the alignment shop made to the front toe settings, may be part of the cause of less steering feel.
FRONT LEFT - from +0'16' to +0'09'
FRONT RIGHT - from +0'02' to +0'08'
OEM is 0'09' plus or minus 0'03'
If I remember correctly positive toe means pointing inwards - so there is less positive toe on the left and more positive toe on the right.
Thinking maybe get some more positive toe on both sides of the front ?? What do you think ?
The MINI toe-in spec is pretty good for a road car. If you add more toe, you will lose turn-in ability and feel. It won’t do anything for the slight pull to the right you have. On a race car, they will actually do a bit of toe-out to improve the turn-in of the car. On the road, this make for a car that is hard to drive straight, so a little toe-in is good. But you don’t want too much.
The numbers that your shop recorded are with the steering wheel straight. So the left had too much toe and the right, not enough. This gets averaged out when driving. That is, on a perfectly flat pavement, ideally to go straight, your steering wheel would be off center to the left which would remove a little toe from the left and add some toe to the right. This results in the toe on both wheels being about the same for the car to go straight.
Another thought about the slight pull you have...are you running stock wheels? I find that when I go from my stock wheels to the same wheels with a spacer (less offset) I feel more affect from the crown of the road and there is a slight pull to the right as a result.
The MINI toe-in spec is pretty good for a road car. If you add more toe, you will lose turn-in ability and feel. It won’t do anything for the slight pull to the right you have. On a race car, they will actually do a bit of toe-out to improve the turn-in of the car. On the road, this make for a car that is hard to drive straight, so a little toe-in is good. But you don’t want too much.
The numbers that your shop recorded are with the steering wheel straight. So the left had too much toe and the right, not enough. This gets averaged out when driving. That is, on a perfectly flat pavement, ideally to go straight, your steering wheel would be off center to the left which would remove a little toe from the left and add some toe to the right. This results in the toe on both wheels being about the same for the car to go straight.
Another thought about the slight pull you have...are you running stock wheels? I find that when I go from my stock wheels to the same wheels with a spacer (less offset) I feel more affect from the crown of the road and there is a slight pull to the right as a result.
Good analysis - makes perfect sense - and yes I'm running stock wheels and no spacers.
I will go back to the alignment shop and see if they can change the settings a bit - to have the car go dead straight with the steering wheel completely centred. And maybe get back some steering feel and response back in the process.
although outside spec the front right toe @ +.02 was a likely cause for right pul but is a better setting if the left was the same. I'd be inclined to go ask then to set them both +.02 or close to it, the direction change will be nicer. On track it may be -.05 for example, so you'd be at a compromise setting. Rear toe maybe +.05 max. Rear camber -1.5 min ;O)
although outside spec the front right toe @ +.02 was a likely cause for right pul but is a better setting if the left was the same. I'd be inclined to go ask then to set them both +.02 or close to it, the direction change will be nicer. On track it may be -.05 for example, so you'd be at a compromise setting. Rear toe maybe +.05 max. Rear camber -1.5 min ;O)
thrust angle should be zero
Thanks, I understand what you mean about the more negative the toe (or the less positive) the better the turn in and steering response. But given that right and left sides (front and rear) are now set at almost exactly the same toe, with the steering at straight dead ahead, then why would it now pull to the right ?
I can only think of 2 possible reasons:
the tyres themselves
the difference betweenfront left (-0'.22') and front right (-1'.24) camber - both negative but 1 degree cross camber difference
Any suggestions welcome folks !
Last edited by QatarJCWR53; Sep 27, 2018 at 03:53 AM.
Reason: more info
Do your roads there have a crown to them? That is, is the center line of the road higher than the edge of the road? This car’s caster can cause it to pull slightly to the right with a slight road crown. It is like pushing a shopping cart across a slopped parting lot. The weight of the cart and the caster of the front wheels will cause the front of the cart to want to head downhill.
Its definitely on my list of things to do, but unlike the restomod guys, this particular job we didn't do, while everything was off the car.
