So who aside from GBMINI has moved to an R56 from an R53 and then seen the error of their ways?

http://www.gbmini.net/wp/2008/01/if_you_dont_love_it_/

Given his long history of MINI obsession and advocacy, this is a pretty big deal, imo.

 

It's probably only me

 

I think owning a GP disqualifies him from making any rational judgement!!!! All joking aside. I'm getting a r56 and had to put the stock exhaust back on (had a one ball and header). I also had to put the stock intake back on and put it back to the sports suspension. Without the exhaust it note it just feels like a grocery getter with some good pickup! What a letdown. Feels like a totally different car. I think if people drove a TOTALLY stock 2004 S and an off the shelf r56 the differences would not be deal breakers. Yes, they are different cars with different steering feel (the quick steering is still there) and no supercharger whining (I'll have to get use to that). I'm sure that I'll look back to the really great times that the 2005 S gave to me. On the other hand there will be no having to check the power steering fan each spring to see if it still turns or worrying about the water pump gears running out of oil on the supercharger... I'm sure there will be other things that will need watching out for on the r56, but as they say, ignorance is bliss! PS: Ian, just get an exhaust and pretend (please don't close your eyes though).

 

Nope, you are not the only one, Ian

There are at least 3 or 4 other people that I have read about also making the switch back to the R53 after owning (And formerly drooling over the R56).

NAM member Ryphile (Ryan) is a former R56 owner, currently driving a '02 R53 S.

Did Munich went a little too far with the "refinement" and "Cost cutting" of the R56?

 

No biggy. Different strokes for different folks.

 

we have an R50 & an R56 and love them both! I agree its different strokes for different folks.....

 

Yup...there's plenty of diehard enthusiasts who are quite pleased with their R56s..and the clutch. I think some legitimately prefer the subtleties of R53 driving dynamics and go back to the kind of MINI they want and relate to best. No biggie...do it!! There's plenty who are inclined otherwise. I do think proclaiming the doom of the brand is over-reaching, though.

 

No one is preaching the doom of the brand, but it is concerning nevertheless. Some of the most visible members of the MINI community have been turned off by the R56. Ian Cull is known as a die hard MINI enthusiast and he is not the type of person that would thrash a MINI just for the heck of it.

 

I hate to say it but I will....after driving my wifes 08 there are some things that I like about it more than my 06 but its a give and take. No matter what its still a MINI to us and we love them all.

 

Actually, its not a big deal at all, both are different cars with very different characteristics. Both are still MINIs and both are still fun. What are you trying to suggest with this thread?

 

I think the message that is being conveyed in this thread is that the R53 feels and drives more like a MINI should, while the R56 is a refined BMW guised as a MINI...

 

Well put ClubmanS....that hit it on the head

 

Again, no biggy.

 

Thats what I figured.

The R53 is a lot more refined than a Classic Mini but I don't see any of you crying foul there. The R56 is simply the evolution of the R53. Get over it and stop beating the dead horse. One car is not better than the other, they're just different.

 

That seems a bit of an over-reaction ... MINI forums are about discussion and this thread seems to be discussing something related to MINIs.
It's not like tazio is calling for all R56 owners to be boycotted ... and my opinions of my experience with an R56 are as valid as anyone else, whether they agree or disagree.

As I said on my weblog, there are some things where the R56 surely wins. It definitely has more power pulling away from a stop, and once the power comes on (turbo lag?) it has impressive acceleration mid-range too in lower gears. It's also more gas-frugal which is a big deal for many owners.

I was surprised how much I've gone off driving it - the "final straw" was coming home from a weeks vacation driving some cheapie rental ... and NOT reacting "oh wow, hooray I'm back in my MINI"; instead my reaction was more like "oh no, I just don't love this car".

There's loads of MINI owners that wouldn't love a GP; there's loads of MINI owners that do love their R56. But none of that prevents discussion ...

 

I definately agree that the R56 doesn't have the MINI feel that the R53 does. When I purchased my 07 after my 04 was totalled I strongly considered the R52 for this reason, but because I have a very young child, I didn't feel safe with the convertible top. I just kept having images of my daughter getting curious and sticking her hand out to grab the mechanical parts of the top while it was opening then getting hurt. I wouldn't be able to handle that at all. Had my 04 not been totalled, I would have kept it forever. It was a great car and in my opinion had no equal, but sometimes you have to make sacrifices for your family. Luckily, i didn't have to make too much of one (IE - minivan).

That said, I do agree with many of your arguments with the R56. The stereo is quite possibly the worst one you could ever put in a car. From sound to operation it is just plain bad! The ride height is way too high, and suffers a bit more body roll than I am used to as a result. I really regret not speccing the sport suspension. I too miss the S/C whine and the sound that the DDM intake made. The R56 just doesn't sound as fast. The parts and accessories are WAY more expensive... $500 installed for an iPod adapter (and you can't do it yourself)! The software just doesn't make sense, there are so many ommisions from the R53 to R56, things that I had really gotten use to like the one-touch close sunroof, and single pull unlock. Then there is the lack of the Ian Cull MINI Circuit with AFF

 

And since I never "loved" the R56, I never had any urge to "open it up" and see how tricky an install would be (I know exactly how/what to design, but without knowing the mechanics, it's a no-go)

 

This was exactly the point I was trying to make in starting this thread. Just pointing out a concerning trend. Maybe a new generation of enthusiasts will sprout up around the R56, but the "Old Guard" appears to be turning away.

 

and still has a 56... One can't generalize here.

Matt

 

Bottom line... the R56 was a design by committee to corporate goals, such as cost control and safety regulations. Bean counters were part of the R56 design team.. and it shows. This is resulting in certain MINI enthusiast returning back to their R53 roots.

 

I'm going to go on a limb and say I'm not like most MINIacs. I enjoy dismantling and rebuilding; datalogging and calculating. I very much enjoy the visceral involvement a highly modded R53 offers. I liked putting R56 trailing arms and Madness front control arms on my R53 along with coilovers/swaybars/rear control arms/drop links, fabbing up a dropped spindle and relocating the suspension pick-up points to get the car 2.9" lower than stock while maintaining competent geometry. I also liked fabricating up an exhaust along with "the usual bolt-ons" in prep for Jan's ECU Tuning party here in Detroit in Dec. '07. Removing the transmission mount from the car just to paint it flat black is my idea of an amusing day in the garage. Taking out the entire rear part of the interior is my answer to adjusting weight bias and lowering overall weight.

I love the R53. I drove my latest one for over a month in 100% stock form. It was fun because it was fluffy and quiet and lift-kit They're fun when stock, but they're an unstoppable riot when modded smartly. You can get the car to feel, handle, and sound pretty much exactly how you want depending on your mix of ingredients, it's awesome!

The R56 is a totally different car. I made the mistake of going into my R56 thinking it was an R53 replacement, but in reality it's altogether a different beast. While The R56 is an absolute monster on the racetrack, out of the box it's honestly not as connected or as fun as a drive casually on twisty mountain roads. The steering needs resolution and feedback improvement, but that's it as far as I'm concerned. A set of ALTA's PSRS, lowering springs [coilovers even better], and wheel spacers [all in that order of importance] will transform the R56 into a competently steering car, though it will never have the beautifully connected feel of the R53. The R56 gets better fuel economy, has more torque, gets quicker lap times, and has a better put together interior than the R53. None of that is worth squat though if absolute fun through cerebral steering, visceral chassis balance, and sweet engine music are your utmost priorities.

I feel the quality of the R56 is in many ways superior to the R53. Quality control is excellent, the materials are better used; cheaper where it doesn't matter and nicer stuff you touch more. I like the ergonomics save the wacky HVAC controls. The boot area is a perfect example of cost savings and more practical. The R53 uses very expensive molded panels, whereas the R56 uses inexpensive single-stage molded carpet that is lighter, cheaper, looks cozier and wears better over time. Now all that said, there are some egregious cheapness in the R56; the cowl trim, the missing tool kits, the horribly dim halogen headlights. Every car has it's ups an downs, they're just different areas between the two chassis.

Now, here's the kicker. I'm seriously considering getting another R56 to compliment my R53. The R56 would be my winter/poor weather car, as well as track car [it excels at both as a comfortable tool]. The R53 would be my Summer/fair weather/Dragon car [this is what the R53 excels at: supreme driving enjoyment]. The R53 would be the car that I keep stored in the winter to maintain it's condition as a modern classic...not to mention it has a full set of spherical bearings in the suspension that need to be kept clean!

Cheers,
Ryan

 

It's clear that there is a type of MINI driver that has very specific want/needs and it is great to have choices for those discerning folks. Frankly, this is a trend I expect to continue...to a point. R56 was "the new guy" and of course folks have been curious. Not a surprise that some, having now weighed the pros and cons, are making choices...some for R53, some for R56. This is certainly as it should be.

I took possession of an R50 in early '03. Since it was a Cooper, it had no supercharger whine and tuning options were somewhat limited, but with light wheels the car was very nimble, quick and fun. Now I have an R56 Cooper. Occasionally I drive my R50 and it is true the differences in driving quality are obvious...but I really like the R56 for everyday motoring. It has proven itself to me again and again with better torque, better mpg, more planted handling, cleaner/more logical styling, and a long list of little improvements that, over time, I continue to appreciate. Throughout the car, I see refinements addressed that I have watch folks complain about for years. Things are much more dialed in.

I will never deny the fun-factor of my R50, but I like what my R56 offers. I don't think I could go back.

 

I understood what you intended to say with this sentence, but the mental image of an R56 bestowing compliments on the R53 is kind of amusing to me.

 

I would guess that was primarily a business decision. Doesn't make a lot of sense to continue developing new R53 parts at this point.

 

Well, from a "1st Gen" standpoint, they are still available for sale and will continue to be until roughly this time next year... in the form of the R52 convertible.

So there is still a "new" market for 1st Gen parts, not to mention a huge number of them out there. The catch is finding ideas that haven't already been done and add meaningful value to 1st Gen owners.