Amusing, yet completely appropriate!

I think gbmini will represent a vast minority of motorers - those that switch back from the R56. It's been said in a few threads on this topic - the niche the R53 hits so well represents a smaller portion of the buyer market. It has characteristics that are more likely to appeal to an enthusiast, and it has flaws that an enthusiast is more likely to ignore/chalk up to "personality". I love the R53 for many of the same reasons people don't like it and decided to buy an R56. The argument that ensues is entertaining and important, but in the end, the cars have some common ground but are defined by their differences, for better or worse.

mb

 

I agree...some will seek out the unique characteristics of the R53, but it seems to me they will be a more discerning lot. It is significant, I think, that given all R53's quirks that MINI decided to produce the GP and take it "all the way", at least for a production car. That's very cool and something of an official imprematur regarding those "quirks."

I do think it was also fair that MINI address what many perceived as "weaknesses" or at least "complaint worthy" in R50/53 (although I never heard any complaints myself). A MINI that is easier to live with for more people is not a bad thing, imo, and it is a very logical step to dial-in the car a bit.

Besides...remember when R53 owners were all embroiled in stumble, and yo-yo, and cracked windshield issues? The point is, that car definitely evolved, too. We're at the beginning of R56's run...who knows what is in store. It is easy to think that the brand has been somehow compromised at this point, but I urge optimism. If MINI can produce a full-on R56 race car from the factory right now, who knows what enthusiasts will have in store three or four years from now!

Of course, many R53 enthusiasts have little reason to care...they, thankfully, already have a car that suits them.

 

He posts around. He like the friggin car!

Matt

There's no point in postulating where there's no knowldege... At best you'll get a lucky hit, at worst you'll propogate rumor.

 

I'm sort of in this boat too. I keep going back and forth between buying an R56 with the JCW engine and suspension kit or buying either a factory JCW R53 or a GP. I loved the rawness of the R53. It's the only car that has matched my Miata in terms of feeling connected to your car. The supercharger whine, the exhaust burble, the telepathic steering. Everything felt so right.

The R56 is a great car but it just feels a little to much like a BMW at times and to some people that's great but I don't want a little BMW. If I wanted a little BMW I'd order a 1 series.

I'm still not sure what I'm going to do
Mike

 

This is an interesting read.

I drove an R53 before driving (and ordering) the R56, and was totally unimpressed. Truthfully the only thing I DID like was the factory ride height on the R53.

I prefer the turbo to the supercharger, the interior is nicer IMO, the transmission shifts smoother, the steering is spot on for what I want, and the gas mileage is better.

Just goes to show you that everyone has a totally different opinion when it comes to these things.

 

the only things that impress me on R56 are interior related: the telescoping wheel, the much much MUCH better seats (I'd love to swap these out into my R53), the ability for the owner to do basic programming (like running lites), and the much smaller and narrower dash downtubes. That's it.

So other than go R53>R56>R53, I'll just stick with R53 (unless it gets wrecked or stolen.) If it did, I'd prob not go MINI unless I found a used low mileage 2006.

 

Now back to what the thread asked.....

 

I had the chance to drive an R56 MCS last night that had NO factory LSD. The steering feel was excellent compared to my R56 with factory LSD. The steering feel was a huge improvement in all street-driven conditions; ranging from 25 mph residential to interstate on-ramps under full-throttle. I have a notion now that a non-factory LSD R56 when lowered and with offset front control arm bushings installed will have respectable steering feel that starts to approach the R53. An amazing "discovery" for me indeed.

 

Mr R52 convertible has wonderful steering, heading home last night

 

Yes of course it does Ian; that's why we own 1st gens!

If you think the factory R50/52/53s have great steering, try installing a set of Madness front control arms with spherical bearings, OMG scalpel!

My point was with the R56, there IS hope to improve its steering feel. A Quaife ATB LSD, ALTA PSRS's, and a set of Cross coilovers would have excellent feel compared to a stock R56 with factory clutch-pack LSD.

 

I spent five years driving my 2002 Cooper around, and modded the snot out of it with custom leather, bluetooth, coilovers, exhaust, intake, etc, etc, etc. It was fun, but very boy racer. The new R56 seems refined, is a hell of a lot quicker, and has so many features I wish I had on the older MINI. (Heated seats for example!) The gear box on the new MINI is better, the interior has more space, and the car came stock with the Cooper Works brakes (just not the cross drilled rotors) I can't imagine going back. But the nice thing about having R53 fanatics is that the price of the used MINIs will be stable, and they will hold their value! Not a bad thing. Also, tuners will most likely continue to build parts for R53 cars. So, like someone said, different strokes for different folks. Don't discount the new R56 though until you have really put one through its paces... it's a very, very cool little car... (did I mention that my turbo engine gets better highway mileage than the previous non-turbo?)

 

Welcome to the internet. Last I checked, almost EVERY thread I've ever read on a forum tends to go a little off topic. It happens. Learn to deal and you will be a much happier camper.

 

Hey, you can't blame the R53 because you didn't opt for the heated seats when getting it, those have been terrific on both R53s we have had

 

Thats the point, there isn't a trend. You've found a handful of enthusiasts out of thousands that have made the switch and then switched back. Thats not a representative sample and its hardly a trend.

In reality, the point of this thread is to try and make it seem like people don't actually like the R56, and that the R53 is the superior vehicle, when its not. Neither are superior, they're just different. Both are fun to drive, both have strengths and weaknesses, and above all, both are still MINIs. Stop trying to portray one as better than the other.

 

Relax, Jason. High blood pressure is not a good thing.

 

Who said I'm worked up? :P I just get tired of seeing these threads is all.

 

Then why read them

 

I think the point is the R53 was designed for driving enthusiast to re-establish the brand name... the R56 was designed to keep cost down and crank profit up. As a result, MINI has taken the R56 in a different direction.. and some drivers are returning to their original R53 roots.

 

That's very true!
For the time I had the R56, it was getting about 29mpg; on the same drives, my GP (and the convertible) get about 24 at the moment (they're better in the summer, but then I bet the R56 would improve too!)

 

Jason, I think these threads present very valid discussion points. If you interpret them as bashing of the R56, then so be it. Ian Cull (GBMINI) is a highly respected and very visible member of the MINI community. He has owned a new MINI for every year ever since they were launched here in 2002. You'll never met a more passionate MINI owner. For Ian to come out and say that the R56 is a good car but not a MINI is something that he will never do without truly feeling genuinely about it. 2 months ago he purchased a fully loaded (used) R56, so for all intents and purposes, he was more than willing to give the car a chance. After all, he wanted to trade the R56 for a new R57 Cabrio next year. I tend to agree with the vast majority of Ian's views on the R56. For those that never owned a R50 or R53 before, it is very difficult to grasp what is being discussed here. Look, I am getting a Clubman, which is an extended wheelbase R56, and has the pluses and minuses that permeate the R56. I like the car and I am willing to accept it, warts and all. But if anyone is to ask me which one I prefer, that would be my R53 hands down. That is not bashing. It is an opinion that has as much validity as those who adamantly support and defend the R56 to no end. The R56 is a great small FWD BMW. But it isn't a MINI.

 

Well, we read them because we are owners of one or the other or both and are MINI-enthusiasts. Seems simple enough. Besides, I've run out of things to say about bacon.

 

This sums it up quite well.

 

....we old folks have been slogging our way thru this BS with Porsches from day 1....too many issues coming from too many unqualified opinions to deal with.....but it does make for some entertainment

 

So I take this as GBMINI's opinion to be unqualified? I have also owned 3 1st gen MINIs, so my opinion is also BS?

 

By the way GBMINI, congrats on the new convertible!