IMO the R56 is aimed at the same target the R53 was. Sure they'd like to sell more. What car maker doesn't want to sell more cars?

Now go out & drive a Camry & an R56. Then tell me they are aimed at the same mass market. Now BMW would love that to be true, but I think it is more a niche car.

Destined to be a classic? Well if we are around in another 50 years we may find out who is correct.

Guess we can agree to disagree.

 

I'm not sure I want to be in on that one (95?!)

 

What are these elusive design parameters you speak of? I think if MINI wanted to design a car for the masses it would release an SUV. Oh wait...

I would imagine that an enthusiast would be drawn more toward the car that performs better, the R56. All you've done in this thread is bash the R56 and any owner that drives one, and you've yet to provide any evidence to back up what you claim.

 

slag1911: Maybe we should look to FOX news to get to the bottom of what BMW was thinking of when they designed the r53 and the r56. The have been very good at telling us what the candidates are doing and thinking!!! I'm sure they could put just the right spin on this... (Jon Stewart is my hero!)

 

We also have a 65 Mustang, and a 2001 Mustang (bought for the son to drive). The 01 far outperforms the 65. Guess which one is more fun to drive. It aint always performance, its the "feel" of the vehicle. I'm not bashing, just saying, aint't fo me! For those that have it and like it, great, have fun, and enjoy.

 

No, its not. You're not the one implying that anyone who buys an R56 cannot possibly be a car enthusiast though. Its not always about the performance, its about the fun. Both the R53 and the R56 are fun to drive, and its insulting to hear someone tell me that just because I chose the more refined car, I'm no longer a car enthusiast. Where's the logic in that? I realize that slag is nothing more than a forum troll and I shouldn't let it get under my skin, but sometimes you just gotta vent.

 

and going, and going, and going, and going, and going, and going, and going, and going, and going, and going, and going, and going, and going, and going, and going, and going.....

Matt

 

Be careful - your post borders dangerously close on political discussion, which is not permitted on NAM.

 

Gone!!!!!

 

Ian, what a can of worms!

 

Sorry

 

 

Again, thanks for getting this across in so few words

Mark

 

I've rarely watched a thread get slowly strangled before. Poor thing.

 

Too bad this thread has gotten so out of control. Having only owned a R56, I really am curious to hear why those who prefer R53's prefer R53's.

 

the classic design.






(slinks quietly out of the room)

 

There are many reasons, most of them visual appearance changes. However, I think the true #1 reason is the sense of "connectedness" to the road that the R53 has. Some would simply interpret and dismiss this as a "rougher ride", but those of us who really love the R53s feel don't like the "more refined" feel of the R56, both in terms of feeling the road and the responsiveness of the steering.

The whole "go kart" feel, really.

Of course, the general public would opt for the smoother ride, and I have no doubts that when they look back at the numbers in a few years, the R56 will have sold even better than the R53 did, when all is said and done.

Mind you, I fully appreciate that the R56 is still a HUGE improvement in "go-kart" feel over the vast majority of cars on the market...

...but it isn't quite the same as the R53.

That's it, in a nutshell, I think.

I don't hate the R56, I really don't. However, I do prefer the R53. If I wanted a more refined ride, I would have bought a different car to begin with. That being said, what's done is done, and crying over spilt milk is a waste of time... which is why you don't find me "piling on" with the R56 criticism. It really won't change much anyway, at least not until the 3rd Gens are designed!

One things for sure - the R50 & R53 will never come back (in new form). They are now relegated to the same "historical memory" status as the classic Mini, as their heyday is behind us. Of course, the R52 carries the "1st Gen" torch a little bit longer, but even that will be extinguished next year with the R57.

 

Connection of driver to car to road... timeless perfectly proportioned design... uniqueness of supercharger / sound / feel / functional hood scoop... I could go on and on... just a classic British enthusiast car!

 

It will be a great day when we can say that a certain MINI is best because it is best for me, which I think was the message of the original blog entry and his subsequent posts. R53 has strengths...and it should be noted that the newcomer, R56, does, too. If both have their weaknesses as well, fine...they do, but enthusiasts easily can gloss past those as part of the character of the car or, more often, something connected to a real benefit... so what's not to love?? I believe it is quite objectively so that both cars are have different flavors of highly engaging and fun motoring....and thus plenty of enthusiastic owners. In light of this, there will be no winners in this debate except the person who comes to motor in the MINI of their choice. I've made my clear choice...if others do the same for them, that's super!!!

 

Whoa, like I said lots of "expert" opinions around here.

Mines a "classic" and your's is not, mine's a "true" mini and yours is not. Mine's the "real" mini and yours is not. My Mini's was designed for real drivers and your mini was not. Only my mini is the "true, real, classic, best" mini and yours is not.

If this was not so silly it would be kind of sad.

 

I agree 100%. Well stated. I can totally understand why some people prefer the R56, based upon their own preferences... I've just stated why my own personal preference is for the R53, that's all - and I've also tried to give some perspective to new MINI owners who bought a R56 and don't understand why some people prefer the R53. They asked, I'm only trying to be informative.

As for Ian's statement about the R56 not being a MINI, that's his own personal opinion, and he is entitled to it. I disagree with him on that point.

As for slag... those of us who have watched his tiresome and relentless posts on this issue have come to realize he will never be at peace with it, so let him be.

 

I test drove many pre R56s and never liked them and then the R56 came out and decided to try again; I fell in love at first site and drive. I wouldn't be a Mini owner if this car hadn't been built. We'll loose some of the previous owners because of the R56 but we'll gain new ones at the same time.

 

Benibiker has it about right. I just think it is a shame that BMW/MINI has decided to abandon it's original supporters without even offering the option of selecting the firm, connected, ride and precise, tactile, steering that earned the R50 & R53 it's reputation for excellant, responsive, handling.

Afterall, many of us design the cars we desire for assembly in the factory. At that time it would be easy and inexpensive to offer different suspension and steering options. It would only mean pulling parts from different bins. Easy enough for a modern computer controlled factory. Some of the changes could even be accomplished with ECU programs.

Much more "green" to do it at the factory than at the port of entry or the dealership. No wasted parts, time, or energy.

JOHO

 

Well back on the hight road... New car (r56) is due this weekend...I'll have the original r56 suspension (non sport) to ride around for a while (till the COLD goes away) and a JCW suspension to try (when the COLD goes away). Oh, and some PS9 Bilsteins which came off the my current r53 (for the summer ONLY in New England). The 2005 r53 car I have's final spec was: LSD, 15%, GP intercooler, HAI (the most SC noise), 1 ball with Alta solid bushings front and rear, RDR camber plates and PS9 Bilsteins with 225 Toyo Ra1's (for autoX) which I rode around a little while on the street when they still had some tread on them. The car just rocked, it's about all I can say about it! It's all been put back to stock (sigh). I also had an April 2002 S with the harder original early sport suspension for three years (with other various suspension mods). If I remember correctly there was a similar outcry about the change to the 2002 US spec cars later that year to softer shocks (petitions etc). Wo, talk about change, I almost forgot about the early US FOG LIGHT fiasco.... Woops, back on the high road! Some major adjustment, I think, with the new car..... Guess I'll have to keep everyone posted with my, of-course, subjective opinions.

 

The R53/R56 debate for me is a bunch of mixed emotions.

The R56 is undeniably quicker, quieter and more refined--but, in my opinion, the R53 is more visceral, more connected to the road, and better looking (don't blame BMW for that though--blame the Euro pedestrian laws). I'd like to someday replace my JCW R53 with a R56, but the R56 that will get me out of my current car hasn't been built yet. I'm desperately hoping that BMW will aim the stage II JCW at those of use (admittedly in the minority) who miss the rawness of the R53, and are somewhat disappointed by the refinement of the new R56, which IMHO feels more like a small BMW than a large MINI. I have no problem with what BMW did to the R56--they made it more accessible to the masses, while still maintaining it as a drivers car--I still consider it a MINI, just as I do the R53.

But to get me into an R56, its going to need a bit of an attitude adjustment. I THINK (and hope) the stage II JCW will do just that.

The beauty of it is I have time to wait--I'm nowhere near driving my present R53 anywhere near its upper limits; my abilities need to increase significantly for that. If/when I get there, I'm hoping to get a stage II JCW R56, and set it up exactly how I want it--provided the stage II JCW is as uncivilized as my current car. BMW, are you listening?