This is, in my opinion, a nonsensical statement.

I love my R53, I'm on my second one in fact. I autocross, have for years, and I've owned Miatas, a Z3, several BMWs, and Alfas in the past. I really will only own what I consider to be a driver's car. I've taken a few LONG test drives, and I really want an R56. It has better power, higher limits, and a higher quality interior, AND is going to be faster around any course. What exactly are the qualities that make a car a MINI? Is it now limited to a few specific noises? It can't be weight, the R56 is lighter! Some say steering feel, but I think the steering feel (with the sport button on) is on par with my R53 (I did test drive a non-lsd car...)


I know some people have gone back to the R53. I understand why. It is the FEELING of speed. I kinda prefer to actual go faster, not feel like I am. But I'm looking at it from a competitive standpoint, I guess.

 

I never said that everybody in this thread has been bashing the R56, just a select few.

I see that you are a future owner of both cars, and thats great. I'm one of the many people who went from an R53 ('06 MCSC) to an R56 only because I couldn't afford to keep both.

I'm happy that Ian found a car that he enjoys, the GP is a great car all around, as is the R53 as well as the R56. All I'm saying is that both cars have their own strengths and weaknesses. Some people see the design changes as cutting costs and trying to make a profit (and this bad why?), other people see them as just an evolution of a product.

And it is still a MINI, even if it feels BMWish. We aren't the ones who get to determine that.

And this is true, I don't have to read these threads, but since everybody else is allowed to voice their opinion on the subject, why not me? These R53 vs. R56 threads are just a tired topic that has been rehashed to no end and nothing ever gets accomplished in them.

 

its a Mini Version 2.0 rev A =)

 

I think much gets accomplished in these discussions because MINI indeed reads and sifts through the feedback posted here. If anything, I hope that some of the questionnable changes that came about in the R56 will hopefully be reversed come v3.0 of the next MINI.

 

Actually, the R53 is a bit of a cobbled design done by two design teams. It was designed, what 8 years ago now? Trust me, no car company making a car in this price range designs a vehicle ON PURPOSE that is difficult to manufacture to the point that it impacts quality and productivity.

Technological advancements, regulations, and more have changed since then in major ways.

Anytime a new car is designed, the engineers are going to try to make the assembly process as efficient as possible. I don't know about you, but I'd prefer that the company make money on the vehicles that they are producing, so that they can survive and continue to produce more of them for me to enjoy. I'd rather have headlights mounted to the chassis and holes in the bonnet than pay an extra $1000 (or whatever) to maintain a design quirk.

The R56 is an evolution. It is designed in response to changing regulations in the world marketplace, AND to ensure the company survives and, yes, profits. Think about it. They managed to make a lighter, more powerful, more fuel efficient vehicle, with a better interior, and MORE options, and it is almost at the same price point. The fact that it outperforms the old model in almost every way is just an added bonus.

(I'm still not a huge fan of the front of the new car - but I understand why it had to be done.)

It's okay to be loyal to the original model. A LOT of people still prefer E30 BMWs to any of the 3 generations that have followed.

 

Such as?

 

The aweful center stack. The pizza plate sized speedo and integrated radio. The lack of height adjustable front seat belts. The lack of a true water temp gauge. The lousy sounding premium stereo. The shape of the headlights and the fact that they are mounted on the body, not the bonnet. The less than razor sharp steering feel, etc. I can go on and on.

 

It is unfortunate that the Cooper doesn't have a separate designation from the MCS as in the first gen because it does make these discussions difficult. For example, in almost every discernible way the R56 Cooper is a step forward from R50 (which is still a great car). However, I can see where the line, especially for diehard enthusiasts, is blurred in the case of the MCS, especially given the heights to which it ascended.

For most, I suspect the R56 (Cooper and MCS) represents a legitimate step forward. That certain discerning enthusiasts (a relatively small number, I believe) feel otherwise seems reasonable....again, especially given the high level of development enjoyed by R53 over the years.

 

None of them are REAL minis - R50, R53, R56, R57 = all fakes, just poseur BMW's. The only real mini is an original Mini.

 

Fake hood scoop..

 

The center stack is definitely a step down, I'll give you that.
The speedo is definitely larger, but IMO looks better. The radio and sound system do suck.
The shape of the headlights? Come on, and the fact that they're not in the bonnet? I didn't realize that was a necessity.
I think you'll find that the R56 actually handles better than a stock R53, despite what it feels like.

Lets just not forget all the differences between the original and the R53, and that at the time the enthusiasts hated the new MINI for the exact same reasons that the R53 enthusiasts hate the R56. I'm happy that you at least gave valid reasons rather than just stating that it looks like an SUV or that it doesn't feel like a MINI any more.

 

Comparing a 41 year old design (Issigonis Mini) with a 21st century 1st gen MINI is a moot point. The Classic Mini is a 1950's design that was built for four decades virtually unchanged. Neither shares anything with each other with the exception of the brand name and spirit. The classic owners bemoaned the "BINI" (as they call it given the BMW manufacture) because the car was not: 1) Made by a 100% British owned company 2) The car grew bigger because it needed to comply with legislation to make it viable for sale around the world. let's be honest..the Classic Mini is a death trap. 3) It was perceived to be a counterfeit of the original. What some of these boneheads failed to understand is that 41 years is a DAMN LONG TIME for a car to remain in manufacturing. While the old Mini was/is an awesome handling car in its own right, it was blatantly behind the times in efficiency, safety, quality and engineering. There were basically 2 choices.... Let the old Rover Mini die a quiet death at the end of the year 2000 or let BMW bring the car back to life as a 21st century interpretation of the classic. To that end, I believe BMW did a fantastic job. While the first gen new MINI had nothing mechanically in common with the old car, it did successfully caught on the spirit of the old car. Truly, the "BINI"was the next logical evolution to the 1959 Morris Mini. Another area where the classic Mini fanatics failed to acknowledge (and they still do to this day) is that the advent of the new MINI raised awareness of the Classic model. People that have never seen or owned a classic Mini (Remember US importation of the classic ended in 1967) were introduced to the old car by means of the new one. In my local club, at least 50% of the current classic Mini owners began their love affair as 2002 or 2003 New MINI owners. Some of them still have their 1st gen MINIs while others sold them and kept the classics. Because of this sudden attention on the old car, values and desirability sudden shoot straight up. I am afraid that would not have been possible had BMW not kept the MINI brand alive. Some on the classic Mini community also sinned by passing their hate of the BINI from the car onto the actual owners. back in '02 stories were plentiful of classic Mini owners sabotaging, attacking and confronting head on New MINI owners. Randy Webb was disqualified of a race win, just because he drove a BINI. So when R56 owners try to desperately grasp to the Old Mini vs BINI history it simply doesn't measure up. It was a different time and 2 totally different cars that had nothing common with each other. Very different situation between the R53 vs R56. After 6 short years, BMW decided to re-write the book of sorts with the R56. It is debatable whether the R56 is the correct path of evolution of the 21st century. Some say yes, some are not so sure. Change for the sake of change? New safety legislation? Economic pressures? Most would agree that the R56 would have been much better embraced as a slightly revised R53 body with the R56 motor. That would had been an interesting, if unlikely, outcome. The R53 and R56 are much more akin to each other than the R53 was to the old Mini. And most importantly, there haven't been any reports of R53 owners actively passing their hate of the R56 onto the owners.

 

It's funny...never liked the looks of R53 and some of it's oddities never grew on me. I suspect that will happen for some w/ R56, too. I will say, it was always at the preference level for me, though...not a matter of disgust.

Anyway, I like the center stack for several reasons...the ***** I use are better placed in relation to the shifter, the silver on black layout makes the clusters more visible in one's peripheral vision, the ability to readout OBC into in the center speedo is brilliant (that section is not just for the radio), and (#1) the legroom enhancement is fantastic. So my likes are primarily based on these functional improvements.

I mention this as the center stack has always taken lots of hits, but driving with it every day...it's pretty good, really. The dash contours/finishes tends to take center stage anyway, aesthetically speaking.

 

Much the same as the R56 vs. the R53.


The R53 really doesn't get GREAT gas mileage vs. its competitors. It is not great on emissions, either. The R56 is better in both regards.

Well, some would have said that the new nose was 'grafted' on. Also, how long should a car company keep making the exact same car? Another generation would mean that the R53 interior would have been over 10 years old before the next update. That is an eternity in today's market.

You really make a pretty good argument FOR the R56, just using the classic vs. MINI discussion.

 

You know I really look forward to the day when I fire up the old putter, log on, and this whole issue is buried way back in the archives.

I owned a classic Mini back in the 70s, it was the most fun car I have ever owned, and I have owned many (25 or so)
Had to sell that car because at the time a truck/van made more sense.

When I first saw that a new MINI was going to become available, almost 10 years ago, I knew then and there as I read the article that I wanted one. In July 03 I got one, and it is close to, but not quite as much fun as that classic.

I have motored in my 03 for 94k miles, done some minor mods, joined this website, met many folks here, most important of them my wife, changed where I live, all because of wanting to again own a MINI.

I have driven R56s, both MC and MCS, they are different, but nothing like the difference between the classic and a new gen.

We are now thinking of getting a Clubman, to replace either my 03 MC, or my wifes 05 Cabrio. The 03 has high miles, but runs like new, it had 3 years of having 100 mile daily commutes, severe winters. Compared to its early life, it's now enjoying the good life, spirited drives, lives in a carport. The 05, low miles, on it's 3rd roof, new clutch, starting issues. Not sure what to give up, but I'm leaning towards selling the Cabrio, higher resale, and the 03 is a proven work horse.

Either way, we will be getting a Clubman, not right away, but a year or so from now. We will also move up to a S

I don't "SEE" except for some visual cues, headlight/tail light configs/side markers, paint colours a HUGE difference. Sure the 56 is taller, slightly more bulky, but they look the same to me unless they are sitting side by side.

The interior is different, mostly the center stack, big deal Bigger speedo, great, more room to stick my Nuvi onto.

I say all this because the change has happened, it won't ever go back, and I have said before in other threads of this sort, bring on all and every variant, I will embrace it, may not own it, but I will never "BASH/TRASH/PUT DOWN" another Mini/MINI owner.

Mark

 

I drove one for a couple years, in the 80s - there's no way I'd want to do regular long drives in one; they're simply not practical daily drivers any more

Not sure I'd call myself "discerning"; that sounds like I'm smart! "picky" is more accurate

See my original weblog post that triggered this discussion - for me the critical thing was loving to drive the car; I didn't get that feeling with the R56. But that's a very personal thing.
Much more useful, I think, is the more general pro/con discussions which allow others, perhaps driving R53 and thinking of switching, to think about what is being said and maybe ignore it or maybe decide to check specific R56 features more carefully on a test drive or whatever, and avoid my mistake of getting an R56 which didn't suit me.
No way am I saying the R56 is bad; and no way am I saying that all R53 owners will hate the R56 ... but, there are some unexpected differences due to the R56 being redesigned rather than evolved from the R53. Nothing like the classic Mini to new MINI differences, but worth being aware of anyway.

Some folks will love the higher performance, or the better gas mileage, or the more complicated interior electronics, and be happy. That's fine too.

 

I hope that doesn't happen!
This thread can die, but if the forums NEVER discuss pros/cons of the different MINI versions, it probably means the uniqueness of the car, that brings out the fanatical in many of us, is buried too.

 

As a (one week away from delivery) MCS owner I've read through many of these MINI vs. MINI posts and even had a sense of buyer's remorse over my purchase. I started thinking that I'd made a $30,000 error in judgement.

Fortunately logic quickly drifted in and I remembered the test drives

The doors shut solid. The car was quirky enough that I could see myself being slightly amused everytime I started it up. The exhaust note was strong but not annoying. The transmission felt silky. The seats were fantastic. The car felt strong and quick. It drove much better than just about anything else I'd driven. Coming from a high-revving Celica GT-S the sweet torque curve basically sold me.

With that said, I wonder when we'll see the first "Calvin peeing on an R56" window sticker?

P.S. Here's a good place to find an argument style for the R53 - R56 fight

http://forums.truckinweb.com/70/6386...der/index.html

 

To say that the R56 is not a MINI is ridiculous. I owned an '03 MCS JCW for five years, and recently traded it in for an '07 MCS with (horrors) the automatic trans....There were many things I loved about the old one, just as there are things I love about the new one...this reminds me of a time I tried to communicate a little MINI brotherhood with someone who owned an original Mini..."There's nothing mini about it" she sniffed, as if a modern version of an icon must repeat all the flaws and defects of the original to be true to its spirit. Let's see her take her car across the country.....in my opinion, the MINI has evolved in some very satisfying ways. I do wish I could have kept the old one, though, so I could compare them any time I felt like..:-)

 

how little content can turn into so many pages of endless debate. What we all know to be subjective value judgements keep going, and going, and going, and going, and going, and going, and going, and going, and going, and going, and going, and going, and going, and going, and going, and going, and going, and going, and going, and going, and going, and going, and going, and going, and going, and going, and going with about as much productivity as this last sentence.

Matt

 

The R53 is destined to become a classic... it will share the same relationship with the R56 as the BMW 2002 shares with the BMW 320.... the 2002 became a classic, and the 320 was just another car. Why is this? Because the R53 and the 2002 are geared towards driving enthusiasts, the R56 and the 320 are built for the masses.

 

Discussion is one thing, bashing is another.

Mark

 

Thank you for putting this in so few words. Same thing said over and over is still the same thing

Mark

 

I disagree. GBMINI is not engaged in bashing of the R56 whatsoever.

 

Amen to that!