Yes, the test vehicle gained horsepower on the second run. This is why two runs were completed. The vehicles and Dyno were shown to stabilize after the second run, but the second run was always higher. The factors for why this happened are not specifically known. The dyno that was used did require calibration to each vehicle. Some of this calibration was done during the first run, so it stands to reason that the calibration factored into the measured HP. This is the only reason the HAI numbers must be taken with a grain of salt, since the test process was not controlled and cannot be compared with the numbers measured from the shootout. The dyno was not a variable that was controllable by TMMZ. The HAI was not tested on the test vehicle. There's nothing to say that another intake wouldn't have "produced" 15 HP if tested in the same way on the same as the HAI. It was not a controlled test. No one has said the HAI is a poor replacement for a production intake, or anything else derogatory. Only that it was not tested.

As for why it was not included in the test, the reasons for this have been covered. S&B and Uni entered into an agreement with the intake manufacturers, and are not intake manufacturers themselves. K&N is, and therefore was awarded the same courtesy that Helix, Alta, M7, Madness, Benfer, etc. etc. were. K&N declined participation, as did other intake manufacturers. The fact that K&N is one of the few intake manufacturers and also makes their own filters makes them special in that regard, but they were treated as an intake manufacturer, and not a filter manufacturer for the purposes of this comparison. The HAI, though not a "sanctioned" intake, was treated as an intake, not a filter, and K&N declined participation. This was not a filter shootout, if the title wasn't clear.

 

Thank you for your explanation and elaboration. Did all of the tests of the TMMZ car show a similar gain in actual hp numbers from run 1 to run 2 (about 5 hp)?

 

SOooooooooo what were the results?

The shoot out was completed, right?

Can't a summary result be shared?

 

As stated previously in the thread, we are compiling an article with a full summary of results, measurements, and guidelines.

If we were to just put out the results, questions would immediately arise about the legitimacy of the tests, and the rules and guidelines. So instead of starting a thread with JUST the results, we aim at presenting it all at once so that the thread can be kept imformative and productive without detterriorating into questions of legitmacy as many previous threads have. Hopefully by presenting you with all of the information at once, the thread can be used as a positive tool for people who are curious as to what intake is best for them.

The shootout was completed. The listed intakes were tested, and everything was recorded.

 

Sorry guys, just couldn't help myself, you guys crack me.

HAI is not a "sanctioned" intake. Funniest thing I've heard . I have to assume that means its produces unsanctioned horsepower . How naughty.

You guys are a hoot .

BahamaBart

 

Hey this is typical from this group. Blow it all out of proportion and then show nothing of much substances. Hype is everything.

 

Really? How so?

Have we actually shown you something yet? I could see you making such a harsh statement if we had shown a rather poor representation of our findings, but nothing has been shown.

I find it rather ironic that in the time it took you to think of such a witty comment , that you didnt have the time to realize the inherent flaw in your statement. You are criticizing us for lack of substance when the reason we are taking so long(your problem with the situation i assume) is because we are adding so much substance to the article.

Another flaw:

The defition of hype is as follows(from a dictionary):

Hype: Exaggerated or extravagant claims made especially in advertising or promotional material

You will see that there was no claim as to when it would be released. The only thing that was "hyped" as you said was that it would be a fun time for the attendees, and i think if you ask the people who attended, they would say that they had a good time....meaning that it wasnt exaggerated.

We also claimed that we would present you with a large amount of information, and although it hasnt been released yet, you have no grounds/evidence to state that our claim was exaggerated(which would allow it to be deemed as hype). If you feel this way when you ACTUALLY see the report, then feel free to call our previous statemesnts hype, but until then doing so will just show a lack of understanding in the definition of the words you are using.

 

I ask that you read back a few pages if you haven't already, there was already a lengthy discussion about this. Like any maagazine does for a shootout, we emailed EVERY company and asked if they wanted to participate in our shootout. K&N felt that they could only participate if they had a representative there to overlook the test (as we had offered). Unfortunately their representatives were busy at SEMA ( a big deal for tuning companies as you can well imagine). Because they couldn't supply a representative, they asked that we not include their intakes in the shootout. Out of respect for their wishes, we didnt. K&N isn't the only company that said they couldn't participate, as you can see there are other companies who were not included as well. We understand that we don't NEED the company's permission legally, but we felt it necessary to be on good terms with such companies so that we could perhaps work with them further to bring you guys more information.

We allowed individual runs of intakes such as the HAI (as i'm sure you already know, since the numbers have already been posted thanks to R1 kid)...We just felt it would be unfair to the tuners to enter their product without their permission. Talk to any car magazine who offers shootouts and ask them about their dealings with tuners...they must ask for approval as well.

I don't know what unsanctioned HP is sorry....

 

Inconceivable!


Jefe: We have stuffed many pinatas for your birthday celebration!
El Guapo: How many pinatas?
Jefe: Many pinatas, many!
El Guapo: Jefe, would you say I have a plethora of pinatas?
Jefe: Yes, El Guapo. You have a plethora.
El Guapo: Jefe, what is a plethora?

But back on topic. Any idea how long the wait is going to be?

 

Sorry to see that the hard work of a few is being blasted before it's even released.

This happened so many times on the miata boards...a guy or a group would say "Hey, we are going to do the research on XYZ so we all know what it does" Everyone thinks it's a great idea until the results come back...then it's a flame war or pissing match.

I thank you guys for taking the effort to do this & look forward to your results. And i'll take them, like every other dyno graph, with a grain of salt.

cheers!

 

Haha atleast we told you which pinatas we have, and what information regarding the pinatas we will be presenting

It will be soon, but we are unable to give you an exact time.

 

Yes. There was variation, so no hard and fast number can be applied. 5 HP is a ballpark, give or take.

 

Cheers to you fishbulb!

We thank you for your support, respect, and maturity. We have tried to navigate around the possible flames regarding any problems with our testing process by recording everything and making sure everything was run fairly, but in doing so we sacrificed the speed with which we could bring you guys the information. Unfortunately, now the speed of release is being flamed I guess the flames are unavoidable when certain individuals are present in a community such as this or the miata forums that you discussed.

 

K&N does not sell the stand alone filter as an intake. I'm glad my choice of words amuses you so, but I hope that you really did get my meaning. The Typhoon is labeled as an intake, the HAI is not. That's all that means. We treated it as such for the purposes of the shootout. The HP that it produces is separate from it's intended use and actual use. Being that it is a filter on the TB, replacing part of the intake path, it was treated as an intake and the same rules were applied.

 

Was just fun'in w/ ya.

And yes your word choice was amusing. I get it your position is that HAI is a filter mod not a air intake mod.

Bottom line is this - a shoot out was done, some intakes were tested (not all, understandable), those running the shootout opted not to test the HAI (fine) and results will be published.

 

Wow! Over 140 hotly disputed posts before the data are published! I can hardly wait to see what happens when you fellows post your report. You are very, very brave people. Thanks for your efforts.
[I am willing to chip in towards a fund for asbestos overcoats for you ]

 

I found that anticipation is a meal many don't like to swallow. Welcome to the grinder! The only time I didn't get flamed for testing was when I had three different sized TBs, did the test BEFORE I told anyone about it, and posted. Got a total of 5 responses and died..... I was truely surprised that there weren't more comments.....

Anyway, another fan eagerly awaiting the results.... But I've got other things to do than **** on your leg and tell you it's raining!

Matt

 

One of the issues is credibility. Unfortunately, there has been a lot of hype, smoke and mirrors and selective data presentation with respect to some products for our cars. That background and some associations have led many to adopt an air of skepticism about these sorts of ventures. Again, it's most unfortunate, but reality. With that said, it does seem that you are trying to be as objective as possible.

Many of us do hope that the final results will be presented in a truly scientific way, with careful attention to methodology and efforts to standardize testing procedures. IMO, to be truly informative, consideration should be given to meaningful factors like area under the curve, as well as other variables, including, but not limited to those mentioned in my post #116. If your paper has a discussion section, I trust you'll be addressing the meaning and significance of your results sans any commercial implications.

Thanks for your consideration....

 

Interesting observation and commentary...

The results of your TB testing were most informative and seem to confirm what many very knowledgable folks had previously expressed. Your objective and scientific approach is most appreciated ...

 

Where is this thread? I am sure with proper motivation a nice flaming posse could be formed. Just to give you the warm and fuzzies.

Seriousely, I missed that thread. Can I get a link?

 

Bumble78 is one of my new NAM favorites!
managed to squeeze in a Princess Bride AND 3 Amigos quote in one post.
i like your style Bumble, i like your moves!

back on topic, what website is this article to be published on anyway? NAM, MINI2, TMMZ, etc.?

 

https://www.northamericanmotoring.co...ad.php?t=54492

All in all, I did about 15 GTech runs to test three configurations. Also checked baseline drift and repeatability as well. Have fun!

Matt

 

Were the results ever posted? I tried to seach and came up empty...

This thread kinda died with no conclusion

 

Nope, results were never "published" but IMHO, some pretty good guesses were posted.

 

what was all that snafu about the other website? did that affect the posting of results?