" unsubscribe"

 

Oh, gee thanks andy....i would have never thought of that on my own.

Have you read number 2 recently? It's really good....you might learn a few things.

Last time i checked, you making jokes about our club name in OUR old thread would be not be considered respectful. So thanks for the link to the guidelines, but i am fully aware of what they say.

 

Re-read what I actually posted. I asked ingsoc to clarify which "good name" he was defending. It wasn't obvious to me (was it obvious to you?) so it could have been TMMZ, MU, or M7. I jokingly combined all three since I didn't know the answer. I apologize to anyone in TMMZ, MU, M7, or any organization that happens to be called TMMU7 who took offense to my combination. Now that ingsoc has made clear that the "good name" he was defending is "The _________ Intake Shootout." that issue is now resolved.

Back to the matter at hand (The _________ Intake Shootout.), does anyone have any data to back up ingsoc and joker's claims? Will this data ever be posted or is this thread no longer going anywhere.

 

The V1 AGS was within measurement noise of the other intakes in the informal shoot-out, and the insides had serious flow issues, mostly at the TB side where there were huge turbulence inducing voids around the inserts for the TB bolts. Get rid of that, and it seems fair to assume that flow would improve, and modeling or measurement will show just how much difference. That's why I filled them in on the used one I bought (but still haven't installed). We'll see if I get good enough at the swap to do an eval like I did for the TBs, with enough runs to ensure repeatability, and repeating the baseline set-up to look for drift over time.

I guess, why wouldn't you expect the V2 to do better than the V1?

And it's sad that for whatever reason, the data's been taken, and it won't be shown......

Life goes on.

Matt

 

"Silence is still Golden" Installing HAI today to get that "dynoed and posted"12 HP increase

 

You'll never get 12 whp out of it. Trust me. You'll never get a 12 whp increase out of any intake. None of us at TMMZ can quote with any confidence what you WILL get. Don't expect 12, though. We were seeing the cars get at least 5 whp variance from 1st run to second, predictably, throughout the day. BUT, the HAI car was only run twice, once for stock and once for HAI. Hence, his numbers do not hold up to the level of precision that we were able to offer for the intakes officially tested.

If it'll make you happy, get the HAI. It's a good solution. Hell, some guys in TMMZ were running the HAI for over a year before the dyno day. BUT, you should know, many of those guys are going to the AGS v2 and are quite happy with the change . Read into it what you will.

 

Small point of contention with this. Andy forgot to mention that the AGS was changed because of deficiencies in the design. Some of these were corrected so that the AGS would perform at the desired level. It's fairly common knowledge that any manufacturer or performance parts will want to outdo their competitors. M7 is no different in this than Alta or Helix, or anyone else. M7 made changes in part because of the results of the first shootout.

The results themselves are not what has held up the public release. That's been well established. TMMZ was not aiming for "M7 coming out on top", as Andy so succinctly stated. TMMZ was aiming for controlled, repeatable results to establish a fair and accurate test.

 

If that was truly you intent, may i ask where M7 came into play? They never laid claim or took responsibility for this test.

There is data to answer any questions you would have Andy. We took special steps to quench the large hunger for data and testing specs just for you and others who are as interested with data as you....we really were trying to help you in your data acquisition. As i mentioned earlier, there was a certain group who wanted to retain it longer and longer. That group (TMMZ) has now claimed legal control over the data, and will no longer let any of us in MU even touch it. Andy, i promise, if i had any of the data in my hands it would be layed out in this thread as quickly as possible. Unfortunately the data has been taken away from me and those of us who helped with the shootout. So, Andy (and others), i (we) really did try to help and bring you all of the data necessary (andy: i really think you would be proud of how in depth the testing was....we took account of all of the things we thought would be helpful/neccessary)....but unfortunately it out of my (our) hands. I guess any further pleading will have to be done on TMMZ since they now have control of the shootout....if MU ever gets it, we will release it .

 

So you are saying that all of the intakes that you tested got somewhat less than 12 whp. In The R1 KIDs post he noted the 5 whp increase and though it was due to the other cars NOT warming up before the first run. He said that he warmed his car up to normal operating temps before both of his runs this would seem to nullify the 5 whp increase that the other cars experienced. One question, was the HAI tested on the same dyno that the intake shootout was done on?

 

I really can't tell you...I wasn't there, but the recap and all related stuff which was shared amongst us suggested that our car was warmed up to the same temp before each run, for consistancy's sake. Before the event we agreed on that methodology, amongst other things.

I don't think you guys quite understand just how exacting and perfect our event was. Every possible variable was controlled with out car. It was even dynoed again after all of the intakes to check the baseline, which was exactly the same. Hence, I have a lot more confidence in our methods, which had at least 3 runs for each intake and 6 stock. Sadly, we didn't have the opportunity to get that kind of redundancy and control over the hai runs. Anyways, my statement stands. No intake will ever net you 12 whp on these cars. Period.

PS: Does anyone wonder why Andy, Mr. "King of Numbers," who I KNOW has dynoed his car, has NEVER posted dynos with numbers on his car? Word on the streets is that the Helix dyno didn't give him anywhere near the sort of numbers for his old Alta intake or his new HAI [or his now gone magnaflow exhaust in comparison to his current one ball]. The numbers just weren't there. It's no secret why he hasn't posted amazing numbers [or any numbers] to back up the hai. If this is not the case, he is welcome to prove to me that I am wrong.

 

Actually he has..........

http://www.ross-tech.net/andy/mini/m...l#Performance:

 

With all due respect, some people ran with the AGS V.1 before they bothered to get them dyno'd.

I am really interested in seeing these intake dyno numbers when they finally are released (and I will patiently wait for them). I know of two people who actually removed their AGS after dynoing them.

 

new respect for the effort that MISFITOY gave.......quick results with more intakes.

If you are all that upset...it was only 3 intakes...... organize and do another ......I'll put in my $10 make that $20 where do I send the check and made out to who

 

I am sorry, will have to correct: he has never posted numbers substantiating any gain from any one mod done on his car. I had seen that one, but forgot it. Regardless, none have been provided showing the gains he has seen, certainly none showing the value of his HAI. That's a little funny, don't you think?

 

Too bad, because the v2 is a free upgrade for all those who bought the v1, according to Peter. They should really reconsider .

 

MSFITOY has always had my respects. It gives me a poor taste in my mouth to see Andy malign him by calling him "fan of M7." The nerve. Anyways, MSFITOY has my respects and the pms to prove it .

 

We are planning on more....read our minds. Although no money is neccessary, thank you for the offer though

And definite respect goes to Misfitoy....even for more than just that. But we were trying to avoid the poor fate that his thread had by creating a full document containing answers to all the questions that lead to the demise of that thread. Unfortunately it lacked speed.

 

(underlining added for emphasis)

Pretty strong statements! Perhaps if the data, including Materials and Methods, are ever presented, we might be able to assess the veracity of your claim. Many of us have been in science/research for quite a few years, and have published extensively on our work, as well as doing peer review of other's work. I humbly suggest that you might be a tad more reserved and cautious in your pronouncements. Thanks for your attention...

 

Haha, dyno days are the best!

 

Oh man, I just read half a dozen pages or so of this thread looking for the results … you guys!!!

:impatient

 

Bob, I have two scholarly papers coming out in the near future, one of which might just be headed for the journal Spine. I really encourage you to check them out. THOSE are deserving of Peer Review, not my posts on the web. Please.

Anyways, you do realize this is a HOBBY, right? People do this for fun . Chill out- we all get a little frustrated, but I stand by my statement nonetheless. Maybe we can even release the hours of video footage unedited, just for your scholarly review.

edit: The last part used the term "we" loosely since I am no longer a member of either TMMZ or MU. Revision noted, I hope. -Editor

 

I like to call this a "Hobby with an Attitude."

I have spent money on mods that were worth it and some that were not....I really appreciate these "arguements" (classical definition) because I am trying to minimize the latter.

Thanks to all and Happy Holidays,

Bob

 

Really, I am interested in the findings but I would probably not change out the Alta unless the AGS V.2 seriously out performs it. Will the "new" effort will have those two?

Speaking of "tests" There is a lot of discussion of TBs any hope there with maybe a subjective drive test. (thins would be good for intakes as well) I think these kinds of tests would be enhanced by a panel of 3-4 drivers taking them out on the road..... I know this adds to logistics but on paper there are many cars that outperform the Mini but when you drive it the magic happens that can't be explained in a dyno.

It's just a "hobby" and I don't know about you but hobbies = passion so,...... c'mon guys

 

I totally agree with you on your first point. For any of the intakes, if you already own one.....spending 200-300 dollars for just a few more HP seems a bit crazy. I highly doubt we will see an intake that would have a big enough difference to justify spending all of that new money when you already have an intake (that new intake would have to give you like 25hp or something )

TB....someone did a HP comparison (just incase you missed it). And you idea of a drive test sounds good. If its teamed up with a dyno, you need to let the car cool down between each drive so that you know each drive was at the exact temp as the other one (so that things can be fair), but besides that, seeing a review by each driver after the test run would be great.

And of course its a passion.....we love it

 

Ingsoc: for someone who disdains hearsay, don't you think your opinions are better filled out by others who were actually there?

"I really can't tell you...I wasn't there," and "You'll never get 12 whp out of it. Trust me. You'll never get a 12 whp increase out of any intake. None of us at TMMZ can quote with any confidence what you WILL get"

It seems to me that whoever was there is not responding (Wasn't Rallymini stuck in detroit?)

Maybe the earnest ones (Hollis, Ing and Eally) should just do another day on the dyno and put out a set of results independent from TMM and its problems? They would be heroes if they did.