Sorry to disappoint you, but I have never dyno'ed the HAI or the one-ball. I have said this before many times, on this very forum Let your sources at the "streets" know they are wrong.

BTW, instead of making false statements and waiting for others to correct you, you could just use this amazing tool to avoid such embarassment:

https://www.northamericanmotoring.co...ms/search.php?

 

I do, but I think you can see that those who organized this are no longer choosing to come around and answer peoples' rightful questions. Hence my frustration. I'm sorry, but this is getting me quite irritated, and I frankly am about to resign myself. I tried to answer questions and defend what I believe in, but this is just wrong.

I'd love to do something like that, but I'm not in any position, near anyone else here, to do that. Such is life.

 

So, let me get this straight. You're hyper-critical to all about getting results and proving their pudding, but you have not even _once_ tried to dyno your current mods? You actually changed out parts you owned for other ones without testing your results? Really?

 

Go back and review all of my posts. I don't recall ever claiming that any of my mods delivered a specific gain unless I dyno'ed them before and after. For instance, back in Feb. '03 I dyno'ed my car stock and with the 15% pulley, hp/tq results went from 144.1/129.8 to 157.8/144.4.

http://www.ross-tech.net/andy/mini/h...stockstock.gif

I'm pretty confident that the pulley delivered about 13 whp andd about 15 lb-ft at the wheels, yet those figures could vary for other cars, other configurations, etc. Likewise, in March '03 I dyno'ed my car, still with the 15% pulley installed and tested it with both the stock exhaust and the Magnaflow. The hp/tq results went from 159.7/146.9 to 165.0/149.1.

http://www.ross-tech.net/andy/mini/m...navspulley.gif

I'm pretty confident that the Magnaflow delivered about 5 whp andd about 2 lb-ft at the wheels, yet those figures could vary for other cars, other configurations, etc.

Do you see the difference between my above testing and results, compared to, for example, someone claiming that the AGS made twice as much power as the Alta, yet providing no data at all to back that up? Or in the case of the same poster, claiming that his car makes over 200whp yet providing no data at all to back that up?

The only people with whom I am as you assert "hyper-critical to all about getting results and proving their pudding" are those who make performance claims yet provide no data at all to back that up. Do you see the distinction?

Please get this discussion back on-topic. I am interested in seeing the data you have to back up your claim that the AGS makes twice as much power as the Alta post it please.

 

Dear GOD,

This thread cannot get back on topic for its like Sienfeld, its a thread about nothing. What started out as good intentions and fun went astray. While the shoot out did occur and numbers generated, they cannot be posted and shared. The lack of numbers produced leg humping posts from board members which I am guilty of on two levels - leg humping posts and finding it funny .

The humane thing to do here GOD is to have this thread removed or blocked for any further posts cannot be on-topic because it is topic-less.
This being the case this thread can only serve as a posting humping ground. Of which I am doing everthing in my power not to throw in a good hump into this message as I type.

Did you see that people are expounding how controlled the test was? and how impressed you would be. Too bad they didn't control the numbers.

DAM, I went and did it . Forgive me NAM for I am weak. Please GOD give me strength .......and hear my prayers. Please remove the temptation.

 

If the AGS does indeed make 2 X the power of the Alta,.....I will order one today........but I have to agree with Andy here........I need some proof. I am not an M7 basher....just a discrimating consumer

 

Thank you for the response; however, you do miss the point. When you use words or phrases like "exacting", "perfect", "every possible variable was controlled", you invite skepticism. Yes, this is a hobby. but when one comes across as being scientific in an approach to a test, then one needs to be careful in their expression. Should the results ever be presented, many people will raise an eyebrow if your claims are attached. My suggestion was just to be a little more careful in your expression. Your enthusiasm is noted, but your choice of words might be a bit hyperbolic. Again, thanks for your consideration.

 

Agreed. I was there and believe me, I'd rather just say what the results were to end all of this and get the results out there but I am respecting the wishes of others.

But even if I did that, the results wouldn't mean anything to some people. You can't do much without being picked apart by vultures on message boards and I have better things to do with my time.

And no.. it wasn't perfect, nothing is. I watched the testing and it was done as closely as it possbily could be and I believe the results were quite accurate. I also think "we" should be reserved for the people who were at that dyno from 8 am to about 4 pm doing the testing.


I think some people should just step back from this or everyone let it go... absolutely nothing is being accomplished in this thread so it's pretty pointless. The results will come out eventually but it's not going to do any good for people to complain and get mad over it. It's completely out of my hands and that's that.

 

Is this true? If so I think this thread should be shut down. It was a Great idea IMO, but if the numbers can not be shared than all that is going to happen is a lot more arguing on this thread about who can do what. That is just my two sense.

 

I'm not sure if you guys have read Doug's claims on TMMZ, but I figured I owe it to you guys to give you a status update on the shootout. Here's what is being said over on TMMZ:

Doug feels that the shootout results and materials are property of TEAMMIGHTYMINIZ, and is now threatening Hollis and myself with lawsuits in an attempt to get us to surrender the data in question.

Now, here are the facts:

- No contracts were ever written or signed with regards to our work, and its relationship to TMMZ.
- Hollis paid out-of-pocket for all costs for the shootout, including the cost of all dyno pulls, and installation fees.
- Hollis personally organized the entire shootout, including making personal commitments with the manufacturers of the intakes, and all services involved.

The writing of the shootout article is currently under-way, but as we're now being threatened with lawsuits, its future is in jeopardy. There is no question that this article and all shootout materials are property of Hollis, as he personally arranged for them AND paid for all dyno pulls and installation fees, while never having signed any agreement to hand them over to TMMZ.

 

Lawsuits? From a Dyno day???


Can't we all just get along

Man, I"m sorry i rehashed this mess by asking an innocent question about if the results were posted... This is ridiculous guys.. Someone has to stop the pettyness, stop pointing finger, stop flaming, stop accusing, stop bitching.....

Everyone get in you MINIs regardless of the intake and drive... just drive... This is really getting out of hand...

 

Yep. A lawsuit.

Personally, I think the shootout netted good results. I certainly believe them to be true.

I'm not on a "side" here, I just think people should stop fighting, in all aspects. A lawsuit is completely unecessary in this case. It really was just a shootout. Yes, it was fun and I enjoyed it but it really wasn't the biggest deal ever... certainly nothing to go to court over.

 

It would certainly be nice, wouldn't it? I extended the olive branch to Doug, and we made plans to meet up and chat at yesterday's Steve's Install Party event. He never showed up, didn't bother calling, didn't answer the phone when I called, and hasn't returned my call. Meanwhile, he's posting that trash on TMMZ.

Agreed. I just want to get the article out, but with Doug throwing his hissyfit, we'll see what happens.

Errr, but wait... Doug doesn't own a MINI!

 

boy, that is wacky!

Hollis should just re-do the dyno work and scoop himself. He'd no doubt find some ways to improve it anyway...like do a HAI, he he.

 

Couldn't agree more and this coming from one who behaved poorly. If the thread can't go forward, you just end up w/ arguments, color posts ect.....
I was one of them (got restless, bored and fustrated because I was very interested to read the findings).

Now there's the discussion of a law suit (just gets funnier, sorry all I can envision is NAM in front of Judge Judy). I'd return the materials, shut down the thread and have nothing more to do with it from a NAM perspective. (Not putting down the efforts people made).

BUT if NAM does end up in court, I say that GOD should represent us. SORRY again, NAM but I find the sequence of events funny. How good intentions could go soooo wrong is beyond my comprehension.

Its sorta like if a tree falls in the forest and no one is there, does it make a sound?

 

NAM is not responsible for what is posted. Same as AOL is not responsible for what is in their chatrooms. That is not an issue

This could be the "longest thread" ever created but at this point ...

 

You now seem to understand the frustration. Believe me, I have no side. I know results which are now the bane of my existence. Should nothing more ever be returned, believe me when I say this: both the Alta and the AGS made power. The AGS made twice as much. But, for an intake twice as much isn't 12 whp [ ]. If people wants to see which intake makes the most power and these results never see the light of day, I highly recommend that someone else gets this done . K? Ingsoc, purging self.

 

OMG What the hell is going on I'm sure glad JS and I didn't end up like this from our AGS dyno run considering people paid us to make it happen...

 

this is what I have been finding so funny - that a thread about nothing is the size that it is.

I Kideeeeeee. I Kideeeeeeeeee

 

...so knowing what you know now, would you ever embark on such a quest again?

 

If we hadn't achieved our test first with great welcome and relative success, not a chance. It's a shame this happened as it only serves to dampen future trials. You never know what kind of people will get involved to make your life miserable...shame

 

A few sour apples have ruined it for all of the good apples it seems

 

Exactly. Hollis and I were really only interested in putting to rest a horse that has been pulverized to a pulp on NAM and other forums. We just wanted to get that information out for the benefit of the MINI community as a whole.

Doug, our Scion-owner friend, is obviously only interested in exploiting the MINI community for money if you consider that he's trying to steal what's rightfully ours, and I'm glad we've now cut off all ties with him and his organization. I do hope TMMZ recovers from this debacle, as it was once an awesome organization full of interesting, creative people.

 

And we'll let that be the last word for this thread.

Given how far this has veared and that it doesn't appear any new information will be posted regarding results soon, I'm locking this thread.

If there is anything new to post in terms of results. Please start a new thread that's focused specifically on the results.

Dave