Drivetrain Another legitimate Oil Catch Can question...
#1
Another legitimate Oil Catch Can question...
Hey all,
New to the site, but not to cars I've been looking into what necessary adjustments need to be made to the 2010 Clubman S I just bought, and I'm seeing very clearly that oil catch cans are a must. I've read just about every thread, and I still have a few questions...
1. I want to do it once, and do it right. Do we need 2 separate cans, or will that boost tap system work? I don't fully understand the boost tap, does it prevent all flow through that line? I'd prefer to put an OCC in line and let the system work as intended. Am I wrong?
2. I want to do it right, but on the cheap if I can Looking at this can, are the inlet / outlet sizes enough for flow? They appear to be .5" (15mm). I know I'll have to find adapters to fit the stock hoses, but I'm concerned that it would add a restriction in the system.
3. Would either of these catch cans see boost pressure if used in conjunction with the stock PCV valves? I feel that the passenger side could be an issue in this regard.
I know this dead horse is sufficiently beaten, but I just can't make heads or tails of these two issues. Help?
New to the site, but not to cars I've been looking into what necessary adjustments need to be made to the 2010 Clubman S I just bought, and I'm seeing very clearly that oil catch cans are a must. I've read just about every thread, and I still have a few questions...
1. I want to do it once, and do it right. Do we need 2 separate cans, or will that boost tap system work? I don't fully understand the boost tap, does it prevent all flow through that line? I'd prefer to put an OCC in line and let the system work as intended. Am I wrong?
2. I want to do it right, but on the cheap if I can Looking at this can, are the inlet / outlet sizes enough for flow? They appear to be .5" (15mm). I know I'll have to find adapters to fit the stock hoses, but I'm concerned that it would add a restriction in the system.
3. Would either of these catch cans see boost pressure if used in conjunction with the stock PCV valves? I feel that the passenger side could be an issue in this regard.
I know this dead horse is sufficiently beaten, but I just can't make heads or tails of these two issues. Help?
#2
Don't mean to spoil the party here but these catch cans are band aid solution to carbon buildup. What a huge waste of money. Catch cans are getting treated like they're a gift from God for the N14 and N18 engines when they catch only a fraction of the oil vapors in the crankcase ventilation system. I think one vendor is even charging over $239 for a kit. What a load of ****.
The best way to kill the problem is to convert your breather system to a vent to atmosphere setup. Not exactly legal and will fail a vehicle inspection, but it solves the problem. The only other way to alleviate the problem is to manually clean the intake ports/valves by hand or by doing a walnut blasting from time to time.
The best way to kill the problem is to convert your breather system to a vent to atmosphere setup. Not exactly legal and will fail a vehicle inspection, but it solves the problem. The only other way to alleviate the problem is to manually clean the intake ports/valves by hand or by doing a walnut blasting from time to time.
Last edited by countryboyshane; 01-11-2015 at 01:51 PM.
#4
#5
#6
I was afraid of that... I've been designing some wild oil baffling to go in one of those cans but I was afraid it would do no good. Besides, there's hardly any room under the hoods of these cars! I'm coming from a '99 A4 where there's room everywhere.
So, for a vent-to-atmosphere set-up... just hack both hoses in half, and put breather filters on the ends? I would probably route them down behind the block to not draw attention. If my thinking is correct...
- 1 line with filter from passenger valve cover port
- 1 line with filter from manifold port
- 1 line with filter from driver valve cover port
- 1 line with filter to intake port
Will this make my car smell? My A4 was catless, and I was looking forward to a non-stinky car!
So, for a vent-to-atmosphere set-up... just hack both hoses in half, and put breather filters on the ends? I would probably route them down behind the block to not draw attention. If my thinking is correct...
- 1 line with filter from passenger valve cover port
- 1 line with filter from manifold port
- 1 line with filter from driver valve cover port
- 1 line with filter to intake port
Will this make my car smell? My A4 was catless, and I was looking forward to a non-stinky car!
#7
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#8
#9
I'm hoping that depending on where the hoses are routed that it won't smell worse than the odor added by the OCC when it begins to fill up.
#10
How much of that is really just condensation? It looks nasty as hell, but water vapor will easily get burned up in the engine. That thin film of oil it catches is usually very small. I can't imagine all the gunk that can would collect in the winter with the large temperature difference between the ambient air and crankcase vapors. What a pain.
#12
I'd say that the jury is still out on this one. Just about every bit of information out there about OCCs is just opinion. I haven't seen one single documented report comparing rates of carbon build-up with and without an OCC. I want to see an OCC installed on a recently de-carboned engine with a follow up inspection after 20-30k miles. Of course, we can't afford to wait around a couple of years for the results. I know my BSH can traps a helluva lot of crap and that crap isn't getting to my valves. I also know that the can isn't catching everything; that would require something on the scale of a cryo trap! bikerbob951 is correct that all these cans could use some design improvement - I plan to increase the surface area in my can with some extra metal mesh. So, I can only say that, in my opinion, a good OCC is better than nothing.
As sensitive as this emissions system is to pressure/vacuum, wouldn't opening everything up to atmospheric pressure start throwing cells? Maybe adding a conventional PVC valve(s) would help. I'd love to see some serious discussion on this issue. I'd like to not have to spring for water/meth injection. fun fun fun
Jon in SC
As sensitive as this emissions system is to pressure/vacuum, wouldn't opening everything up to atmospheric pressure start throwing cells? Maybe adding a conventional PVC valve(s) would help. I'd love to see some serious discussion on this issue. I'd like to not have to spring for water/meth injection. fun fun fun
Jon in SC
#13
As sensitive as this emissions system is to pressure/vacuum, wouldn't opening everything up to atmospheric pressure start throwing cells? Maybe adding a conventional PVC valve(s) would help. I'd love to see some serious discussion on this issue. I'd like to not have to spring for water/meth injection. fun fun fun
Jon in SC
Jon in SC
#14
There is already a PVC valve on the outlet to the intake manifold (built into the valve cover, so probably just need one on the turbo intake side. I was thinking about leaving my OCC in place (intake manifold port of valve cover is already blocked off with BSH dual-boost tap), venting the OCC to atmosphere through a conventional PVC valve, and blocking the vent intake to the turbo inlet pipe. This would prevent any oil from reaching the intake manifold and still be a little more environmentally friendly.
Jon in SC
Jon in SC
#15
How much of that is really just condensation? It looks nasty as hell, but water vapor will easily get burned up in the engine. That thin film of oil it catches is usually very small. I can't imagine all the gunk that can would collect in the winter with the large temperature difference between the ambient air and crankcase vapors. What a pain.
If the amount of oil it's capturing is negligible in comparison to what still gets into the engine than I would agree it's not worth the hassle.
How is that determined though?
#16
So here's what I'm thinking now. Don't make fun of my MS paint skills! At least I would be catching most of the gross stuff before it goes on the street. Two questions with this set up though
1. With two inlets and one outlet, will this cause a restriction in the system? I don't believe it will, but I have no idea. The line out would probably be 1"dia. to help with flow.
2. Both valve cover ports are connected to some sort of vacuum in their stock configuration. Will the absence of significant vacuum cause an issue in this set-up?
#17
That is, essentially, what I plan to do (hopefully, this weekend).
1. I don't believe there would be any restriction. There's not much of a flow involved anyways, unless you had excessive blowby.
2. Absence of vacuum shouldn't be an issue. More conventional systems just rely on combustion induced pressure within the valve cover to expel vapor through the PVC. Lower flow might allow more condensation within the valve cover though. Probably a good idea to check under the oil filler cap ocassionally. Also, make sure your vent line terminates low, at bottom of engine. Good Stuff!
Jon in SC
1. I don't believe there would be any restriction. There's not much of a flow involved anyways, unless you had excessive blowby.
2. Absence of vacuum shouldn't be an issue. More conventional systems just rely on combustion induced pressure within the valve cover to expel vapor through the PVC. Lower flow might allow more condensation within the valve cover though. Probably a good idea to check under the oil filler cap ocassionally. Also, make sure your vent line terminates low, at bottom of engine. Good Stuff!
Jon in SC
#18
Someone had mentioned water/meth kit: Isn't it true that SOME water is required for it to help in preventing carbon build up? Seems like most meth kit users end up with 100% methanol(different makes seem to respond to different mixtures but MINIs supposedly do best on 100%). And are we certain that it is going to prevent future build ups? I know that it won't clean what is currently present but how sure are we on future prevention? I'm in the midst of installing my Aquamist and going back and forth on mixture(planning on getting Jan to meth tune regardless)
#19
#20
Don't mean to spoil the party here but these catch cans are band aid solution to carbon buildup. What a huge waste of money. Catch cans are getting treated like they're a gift from God for the N14 and N18 engines when they catch only a fraction of the oil vapors in the crankcase ventilation system. I think one vendor is even charging over $239 for a kit. What a load of ****.
The best way to kill the problem is to covert your breather system to a vent to atmosphere setup. Not exactly legal and will fail a vehicle inspection, but it solves the problem. The only other way to alleviate the problem is to manually clean the intake ports/valves by hand or by doing a walnut blasting from time to time.
The best way to kill the problem is to covert your breather system to a vent to atmosphere setup. Not exactly legal and will fail a vehicle inspection, but it solves the problem. The only other way to alleviate the problem is to manually clean the intake ports/valves by hand or by doing a walnut blasting from time to time.
#21
#22
Really you are "just asking" if you are "just saying" the things you imply are not well... I'm sure you even know what you imply since you are using a saying that makes you sound like you have no idea what you are talking about. You are only saying it with no proof or knowledge of the thing you say.
I suppose I could of rephrased my statement to the following. "I'm glad that someone else who isn't a sheep agrees with me; it's nice to have another reputable form member on my side."
Also I bought an extra oil cap and I am going to tap it for pressure. Then we will have a better idea of what is happening.
I suppose I could of rephrased my statement to the following. "I'm glad that someone else who isn't a sheep agrees with me; it's nice to have another reputable form member on my side."
Also I bought an extra oil cap and I am going to tap it for pressure. Then we will have a better idea of what is happening.
#23
In the olden days, cars had a Draft Tube that went from a space connected to the crankcase and led under the car, where the air passing under the car, flowing past the end of the draft tube caused a low pressure area that would help draw the crankcase gases out.
I've seen photos of owner's installations that had a filter or screen on the end of the vent to atmosphere. I don't think that would be a good idea as a screen or filter would not promote a low pressure and could get blocked by condensed oil or water.
Dave
I've seen photos of owner's installations that had a filter or screen on the end of the vent to atmosphere. I don't think that would be a good idea as a screen or filter would not promote a low pressure and could get blocked by condensed oil or water.
Dave
#24
Someone had mentioned water/meth kit: Isn't it true that SOME water is required for it to help in preventing carbon build up? Seems like most meth kit users end up with 100% methanol(different makes seem to respond to different mixtures but MINIs supposedly do best on 100%). And are we certain that it is going to prevent future build ups? I know that it won't clean what is currently present but how sure are we on future prevention? I'm in the midst of installing my Aquamist and going back and forth on mixture(planning on getting Jan to meth tune regardless)
I know some run 100% methanol but most Mini owners run a mixture.
You'll get the best benefits by having it custom tuned as you're planning to do.
#25
It doesn't have to be a catch can but the BSH has an outlet at the bottom so if you already have one you'd only have to add a connector there and then a hose.
The check valves would prevent back flow.