The VIN and some other info like mileage etc is coded in several modules in the car including the airbag I believe and the actual key. The computer system is very redundant and if any one part reports inconsistant values it will throw up a big red flag.

 

With all your mods, that's kinda low especially in the torque. Well HP looks to be about where it should be, but damn I'd talk to Jags asap!

 

+1

Compare that to the graph of the RennTech dyno tune on a stock Countryman. Huge difference.

 

Yea your torque is way too low, it's about 30ft lbs off the rest of the competition.

I wonder if he can modify it or if he just loads it on and says here you go.

 

Yeah, exactly what I was thinking. I am already in talks with him about it and showed him the industry standard. So we shall see...

I will keep you guys posted.

 

I question weather the N18 is really as exceptionally difficult to tune as everyone says it is. Consider that the when the Nissan GTR came out it was thought to be untunable, sure enough it was cracked within a year, you can even buy an Accesport for it now.

Does anyone with more knowledge than me know why the BMW N20, which only came out a few months ago in the U.S. is already pushing nearly 300hp on a tune alone?

Are we to believe the Mini DME is any more complicated than the DME on a new 328i BMW?

While everyone is freaking out about the "Mini Dynamics" piggyback for $700, consider that you can get proven dyno numbers from a reputable company for half the price.

Sorry if this sounds like bitching, but I can't help but feel like mini owners constantly get the shaft at every avenue. Cobb priced the accessport for the MINI at $895, the exact same price as an accessport for a $80,000 car (GTR). The prices we pay for things like intakes and exhaust are more than the BMW aftermarket. Sorry just had to vent.

 

Your telling me, I agree on all that. At least for now we have RennTech and PAW until something else comes along.

 

This is honestly one of the weirder non-sequiturs I've read in a while...

Yes, coding the N18 DME is, indeed, a difficult task as there have been multiple stumbling blocks and security features added over the years.

The N20 is apples-to-oranges... It's literally a 25% displacement difference, larger turbo, etc. A 25% change is equivalent (actually, this example is far smaller than that) to someone with a 6.0 LS2 or 6.2 LS3 saying "Boy... the 7.0L 427ci in the Z06 makes 550hp-600hp on just a tune, and my LS2 only gets 425 / LS3 only gets 450 on a tune..."

It just makes no sense. You're blaming the DME for a 25% displacement increase, plus the added inlet/outlet size of the twin-scroll turbo?

As a tuner in the LSx world, I guess I just don't get where you're coming from with this rant... If it's solely to vent, trust me - we're there with you. It's just a bit misdirected, and I felt I had to point that out.

 

Yea, but they're at $995 and $725 plus shipping respectively...unless you're in the FL area.

We need something in the NM Eng. realm of $500

 

I am a pretty weird person, so...

I was comparing the tuning achievements of the N20 to the N18, not in their dyno numbers achieved but the fact that such a tune has even been possible. My comment was only meant to get everyone to consider the two platforms from an engine management perspective. I'd be very surprised if the DME in N20 was an easier to tune for than an N18. Both motors use DI, dual vanos, twin scroll turbos. The $375 piggyback available for the N20 is something I lust over as a mini owner.

I don't know if economies of scale account for the price difference either. How many 2013 BMW 328i's are there in the U.S. now, and what percentage of those already here are ever going to get tuned? I've guessing not many at all.

My real question is why do cars that are 1. more expensive than a MINI and 2. equal/less common than a MINI (MB C230, 135i) get cheaper tuning options faster than us.

How many people are ever going to tune their Mercedes C250? Even with what can only be a VERY small tuning market, they have a 20hp tune for $280 months after the car is released.

 

From an opinion aspect, I'm going to speculate that many people that buy the N20 cars are really into performance, not so much the Efficient Dynamics portion of the equation.

Most people that buy MINIs aren't like us, and the tuning market is limited due to a lack of demand.

I can guarantee that some of the tuners are taking the tunes to the very limit of the N18's ability. My last 2011 ALL4S made 260whp (really flaky with the transmission and surging issues which we all obviously know about now). MINI is focusing on making the cars into economy-maximizing vehicles, and locking out the ability for aftermarket tuning. The removal of the OBD programming was only the beginning.

The real question would emerge when someone installs a Vipec in an N18 and gets a set of numbers for us. If it's similar to the current tunes, the engine is a limiting factor. If it's a lot more, then there's obviously an issue somewhere.

With significant hardware modification (larger turbo, etc), the N18 could approach 300whp, but that's getting into dangerous (and expensive) territory.

Do I wish I had an N20 in my JCW? Sure! But I have to deal with what they gave us (which was absolute crap in the 2013s).

 

Thanks for the thoughtful reply. I disagree that the N20 is purchased by anyone desiring a performance driving experience. It is the lowest spec engine you can get on a BMW in the U.S. Anyone wanting to go fast would get a 335i. I agree that MINI's are a small tuning market. Perhaps if Cobb accessport hadn't been hilariously expensive it would have sold better.

I love my mini for what it is, flaws and all, but a very limited aftermarket for an otherwise very customization car is the pits.

 

So if the demand is SO low why did Mini USA find it necessary to make it so much more difficult post 03/12

 

Ok, after reading the recent posts. Let me clear up some of the following:

-Comparing Dynapak dyno numbers to a Dynojet numbers. It's like comparing apples from oranges. (Dynapak will state a higher dyno number to almost like a flywheel number, since it requires removal of wheels to dyno)
-Dyno it's a tool to validate hp / torque delta gains in under the curve of peak numbers. That's the reason either RENNtech (since 2002) or PAW (since 2005) has their own in-house dyno w/DLM (Datalogger) for developed & testing. And, to eliminate many fluff claims from products.
-Software Calibration Number (SCN) & Serial ID eeprom variant coding it's what prevents us from swapping N18 ecu. But, with the right stuff it can be done.
-High low end torque +245-300ftlb at 3000-3500rpm dynojet figures, WILL kill the engine N14/N18. I would rather have this torque much later in the usable RPM over +4500rpm. This engine it's not built like a Diesel.
-It will be interesting how a standalone can handle as much sensor info compared to the powerful Tricore TC1797 MCU used in N18/N20 & many high end cars. Control of the TVDI alone would be interesting & will not do OBD readiness.
-There's a few MATURE stand alone that I can recommend for GDI (gasoline direct injection) used since 1998. But it's for Motorsport use & somewhat costly for the average street users. Factory DME it's sufficient for the average Sport Performance upgrade & Club racing.
-See you all at MOTD =)

 

Yup I put in a RaceChip
https://www.northamericanmotoring.co...60-post50.html

 

Lenny droppin' knowledge!

From DKIKK77's dyno chart , it looks like he peaks at 235 lb./ft. of torque at 2,750 RPMs on the Dynojet. Is that pretty much the max you'd like at that low of RPM? I would love 235-245 lb/ft. of torque at 2,750 RPM.

 

Here's an example of the better torque curve when tuned @ 4500rpm for peak torque, compared to recent tuned 2013 GP (Dyno run 21 & 22)tuned both for Club HPDE driving. Controlling to not go over +245ftlb @ wheels early in rpm it's key for engine survival rate over 30min wot sessions at track events, specially on a stock non-JCW piston. You can pretty much customize a program to the torque you want @ x rpm (within engine hardware flow limitations), but the key it's making it last like oem intented it to be & not to do a dyno queen tune number beyond it's engine limitations without engine upgrades.

 

Lenny

that is the tune i want! peak torque at 4,500 with a nice flat curve!

what mods are needed? can i send the ECU or does this require an in-person dyno tune?

i have a tyrolsport FMIC on order, a dry aFe drop in filter (pending a DOS setup for the CMS All4), a hotside resonator delete and a milltek DP-back exhaust (no resonator, no second cat)

DP is stock, recirc valve is stock

scott

 

Listen to what Lenny says. He is a good friend. Tuned my mini (N14) and my buddies mini N(18). We both had the exact same set ups... Alta Intake and that is it. My buddies N18 has a stramosphere exhaust and we both kept up neck to neck on multiple runs we did. Exactly as the charts are shown above is exactly how you will feel the power when driving the car. With the N18 you WILL have to get the JCW spark plugs. I must say, this is thus far the best upgrade you can do to your car hands down.

 

Got the details for the JCW plugs?

 

Ngk 5992
ngk ilzkbr7a-8g
ngk # dilkar8a8

 

Ok So I am new here and I just bought a brand new Mini cooper S 4 seater not the countryman. I have an automatic transmission. So my car has a 1.6 liter Turbo. I live here in Tampa florida . Who can tune my car? do I have to ship the ECU to another state?

 

PAW and RennTech are in your state if you want to drive to them.

 

You'd be foolish not to go to PAW or RennTech.

 

+1