I feel that the water/meth is one great power adder( thru making the power safer) if I can bring 10 WHP on a stock tune for just the w/m... then it should be a no brainer to add it to all the MCS out there with any % pulley!! With the NOS the w/m increased THAT power also!! "Devils own" is a real good way to make it all happen.... OR wait till there is more data from "others" and STILL go to it!! LOL

Bottom line?? It works and is worth the mod!!

Just me.................................

Thumper

 

I'll be working on a Devil's Own install for the 1st gen MCS over the next few weeks... will have a full report when done. My objective isn't to have the absolute best possible solution for highly tuned, high HP track MINIs - but to have a very cost effective solution that's "good enough" for a large percentage of mostly street/occasional track MINI enthusiasts. In other words - not what folks like big_howe may be looking for, but what folks like me may be looking for.

 

Blimey... you Rock!!! I agree, the advantage to the majority of the drivers is HUGE!!! And with the added advantage of the cost, it is well affordable!! Yes??

Have fun.. and document... document... document... LOL


Just me....................................

Thumper

PS: Dynojet results: 10 WHP off the bottle and 12.4 whp / 21.36 tq diff on the bottle!! ( 257whp/260 tq)

 

what I think you will find is this system will help over stock but you won't get all of the features of "why" you buy a methanol system. That system is not capable of using injector duty cycle
it ramps pump speed which won't be able to keep up in on/off/on situations and I believe it wants you to buy another MAP sensor which could cause issues with tuning


knowing which timing map you have from the factory is key in how much hp you will get from the kit. Most pre-05 cars have much higher timing from the factory which will net you more hp because the car is now able to run the higher timing setups.

Cheaper isn't always better

 

Great, can't wait to see the outcomes...good luck

 

I run the Devils own nozzles on my kit and they are very good

 

what systems have you tested?

 

If I can gain more power for the small cost.. then it is there!! I have an 06, and really feel it IS doing what I want... Making it safer!! The power gain is just in addition !! LOL When in the future when I add the "1320 camshaft" the adjustable cam gear ( set thru Dyno readings) and possibly a tune.. it might only make 8 whp!! but the safety is still there!!

Is there anyone with a Cooper that has tried the w/m?? seems it would help there also. just a thought.

Just me....................................

Thumper

Bottom line?? 10 whp bolt on!!and still NO Tune!!

 

[quote=Thumper460;2616407] Is there anyone with a Cooper that has tried the w/m?? seems it would help there also. just a thought. [quote]

In becoming a DevilsOwn Dealer I researched adding Meth to my R50.

Based on my understanding of how Meth works I do not think Just-A-Cooper's would see any gain from using Meth. If there is any HP gain I don't think it would be worth the price of the kit. One of the few things R50 owners can do to better manage the power they do have is get an ECU Tune, Jan did mine in July 08, to help with the management of that power. Then add a TSW Damper to help with delivery of that power to the pavement.

 

Mine, which I am still playing with , but I have tried several different nozzles and in my own subjective conclusion they were very good.
Take it for what it is worth as it is just my humple opinion

 

Jan I am interested in what you think are all the features of "why" you get a meth kit?

 

The issue isn't whether any W/A kit will help. It probably will in some form as most have seen. The issue is that the progressive pump speed systems have a very limited dynamic range, even worse if you use a checkvalve, meaning they really aren't quite as progressive and wide ranging as you'd think. This leads to issues with tuning and getting the correct AFR's across the entire rev range, not just a boost somewhere in the midrange or top end. The ECU will fight you and cancel out some of the power gains in certain parts of the rev range if it's not metered correctly.

For example: You can bolt any old header on the car. Of course it will help and make power, but obviously some are better across the whole range than others.

 

let's educate the masses here

Thumper........here are your 2 runs
the first without meth..... note the a/f ratios running down to as low as 11:1 which is very safe

the second run you were running lean at over 13:1 in places

this "lean" condition will net you a phat dyno number but in the end... plan on rebuilding your engine after some heavy track abuse

 

bottom line: 10 WHP on an UN-tuned 06!! No issues/ no engine lites..

go figure....

Just me............................

Thumper

 

I'm saying it isn't safe, if ignorance is bliss then you should be feeling mighty good right now

here is a run in 90degree weather

NEVER was safety given up for hp here

 

So you have nothing to compare it to?

Ok, that clears that up.....

there are many different reasons why.........

at the end of the day we all would like a steak and lobster dinner
but sometimes people just go for the tuna sandwich

 

The statement I made was that devils own make good quality nozzles, I have used several different nozzle types from several different manufactures and I found the devils own one to be quite good.

Great answer

People often make judgements based on economic decisions in life. I know I do when it comes to modding my car.
Yes we all know you make great stuff... but have you ever thought that many of your products may be out of the price range for many people?
And if people can get performance gains on a budget why not?

 

why would you use other companies nozzles with someone elses kit?


as for reasons........ we sit down and explain to every customer why ours is better than what is currently out there. Having tried 2 of the other kits out there , we realised that the way those systems were set up they would never do what we needed them to do. We set the bar very high on performance. I guess our standards are just higher and I don't plan on lowering them just to sell a product that we believe is inferior.

Most of the people who buy our products track their cars...... risking the engine isn't worth it

 

My meth kit is a custom alky control system. Julio uses the Devils own nozzles in all his kits as he thinks they are the best - all alky control do are meth kits and he knows his stuff.
The original nozzle was too large (now Julio supplies a number of different nozzles for customers to try as there is no one size fits all application).
I couldn't source any Devils own nozzles locally in Australia so I went with other manufactures thinking they would all be similar (which they are not). After trying these I then contacted Julio and he sent my several nozzles at no charge which I then tested on my car.
I would be interested to know what nozzles you are using in your kit? Are you manufacturing your own or are you going to use someone elses and rebadge them?

The majority of mini owners out there do not track or race their cars, and if you can get similar results at a fraction of the cost why not?

But this could go on forever, which I do not want it to as the original question was to get people thoughts on the Devils own kits. Unfortunately this thread has gone down an all too familiar path....
Good luck with your testing and I wish you all the best with your meth kit

 

I'm posting this as information only. Not as part of the current or any other debate in this or any other thread.

The Philosophy of DevilsOwn Kit is to reduce heat. X amount of heat is generated with Y amount of boost. We are not trying to add fuel to the car. We just want to remove X heat from the air. That's the reason we use boost reference alcohol injection.

The following was taken from http://www.autoxcooper.com/devils_own.html

DevilsOwn Alcohol water injection is a method for cooling the combustion chambers of engines. By adding methanol water mix to the incoming air-fuel mixture. This allows for greater compression ratios. Largely eliminating the problem of engine knocking due to detonation. Many alcohol injection systems use a mixture of water and methanol (usually 50/50), partly because the methanol is combustible and will raise the octane level of the fuel. While water is not combustible, it has a greater capacity to cool the intake air temps down more than methanol alone. This effectively increases the octane rating of the fuel allowing performance gains to be obtained when used in conjunction with a supercharger or turbocharger, altered spark ignition timing, and increased boost levels.

 

There are a few key points missing here. You are adding fuel by adding methanol, and that affects the AFR's. This in turn can adversely affect how much power you get. If you are spraying water and methanol based on boost, this is not linear with actual engine load, so you are adding more fuel(methanol) where you don't need it screwing the AFR's even more.
Water and methanol cool the IAT's and EGT's in different ways for different reasons. The statements above are actually to simplistic and almost misleading in the way they are written to truly describe how the systems really work.

 

The RMW kit uses Aquamist nozzles, and Aquamist components for the rest of the kit. RMW believes in providing a complete solution, including the proper failsafes to make sure the kit is working right. Aquamist is one of, if not the leader in the water/alcohol injection industry.
We're not going to sell a pump and motor controller and not give you the rest of the package to save a few bucks.
Progressive pump speed systems, which is what most of you are using, will never be able to touch a proper fuel injector style system in performance. Period. Why would you just fog a substance into an inlet tract completely ruining the perfect metering of a modern EFI?

People are calling me everyday to get their Mini's faster because they are also tracking their cars. Please don't make assumptions based on your data.

You are right about this going down the same path...... at some point you and others are asked to show proof and this is when you pack up.

Why on Thumpers dyno didn't he gain any torque? The graph I showed picked up 12ft lbs of torque in the area where you drive it . Area under the curve is where it's at

 

Where is the A/F on this dyno sheet so we can compare?

Nice gain thats for sure, what spec is the engine?

What real world performance gains do you see big howe ET wise?

 

17% pulley
RMW HEAD/CAM/ RACE HEADER/Exhaust
440cc injectors
RMW TUNE
RMW METH KIT
91pump gas

I can guarantee you it's under 11.5 a/f ratio up top
I'm not going to give out our secrets to our competitors so they can cut their tuning times

 

wow...too many vendors in here, selling isht.