One other way to look at this is again by expectations for the system. The pump speed based systems and the way they operate, are in my opinion an add on, not a fueling source. That being said, I'm not sure how comfortable I would be having a car tuned with it. The limited dynamic range and pulsing of the pump cause fueling/AFR issues that cannot be over come. I have first hand experience with this and talked with other folks that have had the same issues.

So if you want to add it on and forget it, some modest gains can be had. These gains will probably not be as broad as some other systems for reasons mentioned in the previous post. If the intent is to have the car tuned using the kit for bigger gains, the operational characteristics, consistency and performance may be limiting factors and depending upon the nature of the tune, possibly damaging.

 

Ding Ding Ding - well said! Many thanks.

Great example - in my case, my intent is to NOT tune for water/meth - but to use it as an add-on to augment whatever tune I have, allowing the ECU to take advantage of better temps, etc when they are available. If I run out of juice, no harm - no foul.... so I think my expectations for the system are aligned with what I'm likely to get out of the boost controlled progressive pump-based systems. Again - if I had YOUR car and YOUR objectives, I understand that a different system would be preferred.

Thanks for sharing your knowledge - this was exactly the point I was hoping we'd get to - some reasonable parameters behind what to expect from each system, and what objectives define someone as a fit for one type of system or the other. Instead of the "approach X rocks, all others suck" type of discourse we often have around here these days...

 

what do you guys think about the coolingmist set up (non vari cool)?

 

I agree with you regarding the discourse. It's the presentation and understanding of information that's most important, and many time folks get lost in other agendas.
I can say that getting the car to run full timing in 100 degree heat can be quite addictive, but that is where the old system had issues. Logging hours of data to try to tune the system to be repeatable, even just at WOT, was a futile effort. It gave acceptable gains most of the time, but not great gains the majority. Believe me, I have a lot of dollars tied up in that old system, and tried like hell to get it to work(the way I wanted) .
After running the car countless times on one piece of asphalt, I can almost tell you how much timing the car ran before looking at the data. I can say the system you have will probably need to be tweaked with changing weather( say a 40F swing), to get the most out of it. Keep us updated on the results, more findings are always interesting.

P.S. One side note is the MINI and it's parts combinations do make a significant difference on how the ECU will react to a system and result in power gains. My car always pinged bad from the factory, the first system mostly remedied that, after a lot of tweaking, when the car was stock. Once I installed the DTBPV, the boost became near instantaneous, which caused the ECU fits and the old system to be too sluggish and inconsistent to make a difference. Dyno graphs are one thing, but real world driveability for each application is another, and should be considered in the equation. As has been said many times and worn out by now, the drivetrain is a system and one small change down the line can have effects across the board.

 

Good stuff.

 

Curious - what were the major engine mods you were running while trying to get the old system to meet your desires? Head, header, cam, pulley et al?

I understand the fundamental issues regarding how boost builds on the cars vs. where max HP is made - but I'm curious if your issues were augmented by the "insane" amount of air/fuel you flow at the top end with your current setup vs. 98% of the cars out here...

 

At the time it was a stock JCW car. I don't remember the exact order, but before it's first visit to RMW, it had a W/M system, DTBPV, K&N air filter and an OBX header. I wasn't doing all of the data logging at the time, but many of the OBD parameters(including Timing and IAT). Knowing what I know now there are just so many variables to the whole mix it's difficult to get right, let alone talk shop with folks.
For example, get jets from three different vendors, all rated the same, and see if they actually flow the same at a given PSI. They don't. In fact, some are off 100% or more from others. So when playing with the first system, knowing what I know now, could I have made incremental improvements, yes. Could I have made it right in my eyes, not even close.

 

Great piece big howe

 

I guess you would mean "Not bad for a genetically inferior, chocolate box carrying tard?"

 

my thoughts exactly

 

Just to clear things up as I've been asked;

I have not used a Devils Own System, this thread being about them. My first system was a Coolingmist Varicool S-HSV with the blue box and all the gadgets.
I am currently using a RMW Aquamist Kit.

 

Even with the tangents, and extracurricular vendor participation, and shenanigans, this has been an EXCELLENT thread IMHO - much good info on the pros & cons of various w/m approaches, much good experience from big howe who has run both major types of systems, good input from several other folks who are happy with their results on boost-controlled pump-based systems... shows how far the knowledge base has come on this topic in the past couple of years.

In the interest of full disclosure - I DO now have a Devil's Own system installed, and early results seem consistent with my objectives. Still have lots of testing to do on the street and on the dyno. More details coming soon.

 

one quick question.... does it rock?

just me................

 

ROFLMFAO.........Your a gem!!

 

ROFLMFAO... yep you are!!

The key being the water/ meth works.. and good for the performance of our Minis.

Now on to other things..

Just me....................

Thumper

 

Ask me when it's 90F outside... but it definitely pulls harder and has lower temps under heavy boost in the fat part of the torque curve where I normally live on the street... might be absolute donkey poo on a hot day at the track... but so far, I'm liking it. Of course, it would rock more if I had spent three times as much. That's only natural. Lighter wallet and all.

Data point... even with the weird flat spot I have below 4000 RPM... I went out yesterday and bested my best previous 1/4mile dynolicious run with the cam+header, with a lousy start, all else equal except now I have the system, and it was 10 degrees hotter outside than the previous run.... but lots more testing to come.

 

Install is finished, thank you to Dustin (AutoXcooper) and Blimey for allowing me to call with my stupid questions... It helped me do the install once and only once

I should be heading to the dyno later today to get some before and after of what the W/M is doing...wish me luck.

 

Cool... can't wait to see your results.

It took me two weeks to install mine.

 

4 hours with the right help and tools

Thanks again for being the beta...

 

AZblackOUT: Thanks for the info on the phone today...when do you think you will have results posted?

 

Any pic's of the install?

 

here's a great one, http://www.blimeycabrio.com/?p=592

 

Intercooler boot boost leak...got one run on the dyno and got chewed up cause of that...hopefully soon. may not be until next week i get my shot at the dyno again

 

Too bad Sushil... those boots can be a bear. You'll probably do better to wait until you have a 2gph nozzle on there, anyway.

 

its all good, just ordered a set of ALTA IC boots from AutoXcooper to help solve the issue...mine are worn down and have been removed and put back and removed and put back so many times I should have expected it...

Also, Ive been advised to grab my stock IC and possibly see if putting that on will be more efficient because now that im using meth to cool, dont need an oversized IC... infact might be pulling boost away because its just that much more space to fill before it meets the Intake manifold...

Any thoughts?