i was thinking about getting a set of coilovers but i wanted to know how they affect the handling on the MCS. is it better? worse? ive heard from some people that coilovers are a stiff ride so id assume they would reduce body roll and the handling would improve...even though it should improve by lowering the car anyways. Let me know.

Thanks

 

Based on my experience with H&R coil overs.

1. Yes they are stiffer - normally the application is competition and reduced body roll is one of the goals.

2. Yes they are normally aimed at lowering - to some degree. Coil-overs by definition have adjustable spring perches so the ride height can be specified within the limits of the components selected.

3. Coil-overs (the good ones) also contain matched springs and shocks, which is important in most cases to avoid an under-damped suspension and/or accelerated wear on OEM shocks.

4. Coil-overs, due to the adjustable spring perches, also permit (and in my view require) corner weighting. The point of this exercise is to ensure that the ratio of weight front to rear is equal on both sides of the car. This makes the car handle identically when turning in either direction.

5. Coil-overs are most often paired with other components - for example rear sway bar and adjustable lower control arms. The former to reduce understeer, and the latter to reduce negative camber at the rear axle (which gains negative camber rapidly when ride height is reduced).

6. Finally, coil-overs are often paired with camber plates - primarily to reduce understeer (but some folks get an additional benefit from the resulting increase in strength at the top of the shock towers to combat deformation of that area of the chassis - a.k.a mushrooming).

The ride on my car, which has all these components, is quite stiff. If I did not race the car I would think the trade-off a poor one. If you intend to autocross your car then these changes will take you out of stock and place you in Street Touring at a minimum.

It's a slippery slope, and not cheap - if you've any doubts I'd recommend seeking someone with similar modifications and experiencing the result first hand before taking the plunge.

Kind regards,

Charlie

Ps: my car will routinely pull > 1.1 G lateral during competition on any of the current crop of top 140 TW street tires, so the upside of all this bother is a Mini that will out perform a Ferrari on a skidpad.

 

ok thanks a lot and ya ill deffinatly ask around. im going to autocross this summer with it stock and then ill modify it for next summer.

 

Most people, (including Mini owners), couldn't drive thier way out of a paper bag, let alone drive one in anger in a competition setting. And that's in stock form. Now you start modifying the suspension without really understanding your limitations, or the actual dynamics of the car, and you get a large pile of crap just waiting to to happen. Say the actual maximum performance capability of a given car is 10. Most people don't have the skill set to operate competently at above a 7 or 8. In fact most people start getting scared above 5 or 6.

So now you go and start adding stuff to a car to increase it's performance envelope to 11 or 12. Before you could do stupid things and get away with it, like lifting the throttle in the middle of a turn, or using the breaks, or some more ham fisted steering inputs, and the car would shrug, and then understeer you off to relative safety, it now will bite back and swap ends, with a lot less warning and forgiveness. Your skill set probably isn't up to that.

Seriously, go improve you the driver. When you get to the point where you know why the car is limiting your performance, then you can start to make changes to the car.

Rant off, flame suit on...

 

....so you're saying it'll make his car go to 11.



Seriously though, tighten the nut behind the wheels before messing with the car. A simple set of good rubber will have a huge effect on the abilities of any car and you'll likely get more out of them in regards to reducing lap times that you will out of any suspension changes.

 

Very true. well i have a year to drive the car and get to know it as a DD before any upgrades so ill learn how the car reacts around corners and such.

 

ROTFLMAO! Now why would someone flame you for that?

I couldn't agree more, and indeed an autocross setup that slaloms brilliantly will eat your lunch on a decreasing radius off ramp...

I do not push the car on the street - ever. Period. No exceptions.

That's what autocross is for.

And of course once one has had a few seasons and some good mentoring, the performance level on course is just inconceivable in any other setting (including in my case HPDE, etc).

I should perhaps temper my remarks somewhat, as I tend to spend a fair bit of time at sccaforums.com where these principles can be safely assumed.

Kind regards,

Charlie

 

There is no doubt that technologically advance equipment can make a good athlete better, but when it comes to such sporting activities as car racing, sailboat racing, golf, hitting a baseball or tennis ball, archery, etc., the old saying "it's the indian not the arrow" always rings true.

 

It's what I'd recommend. Go to a rookie school if your local scca or bmwca chapter offers them, get as much seat time as possible, and then race it for at least a year before you upgrade to truely sticky rubber (rcomps), if you are planning on running in st or another class that requires street tires, then the last part matters a bit less, though I'd still recommend learning on crappy tires.

 

That doesn't apply to a Taylormade R11 driver, I can tell you that .

 

Really??? Strike what I said before. The OP should buy his coil overs. Me, I'm headin to the Pro Shop after work. Maybe that will be the club that get's me to the Senior Tour. I am sure my wife won't mind me spending more $$$ on another driver if it really improves my game.

 

'tis true about the driver. I've three proofs over the years - and in each case upgrading the driver produced a significant improvement in performance.

Regrettably all three were human (well two were - the third was female, of the sub-species "championas nationalas perennis"), and I'm sort of attached to driving the car myself. One must make do I suppose...

 

I think Charlie and Richard have nailed it; great posts.

I think completely stock is the best setup to start autocrossing or track. That way, you'll learn what you and the car can initially do together, and, as you improve, you'll eventually discover the car's first limitation to your continued progress. That might be tires.

 

I autocrossed for a season with the stock setup and found that the two biggest limitations for me were the understeer and the lack of significant camber adjustments (no adjustability on the front, and only a smidge on the rear).

After that, I put on a bigger rear swaybar, adjustable rear lower control arms, lighter wheels/tires and some CROSS coilovers. Then I lowered the car about an inch and a half and had it corner-balanced.

The difference in handling was amazing, but the ride with the coilovers was significantly harsher. On some of the really bad roads around here, it borders on punishing.

My wife has a MINI that's identical to mine except hers is still stock, so I haven't forgotten what the stock ride/handling is like. I'm not autocrossing much any more, and I've got almost 60k miles on the coilovers, so I think I'm going back to the stock springs soon.

If I had it to do over again, I think I would have just gone with some Koni FSD shocks to improve the handling a little bit rather than the CROSS setup, which is almost overkill for a daily-driver.

 

Slightly off topic, but another happy TaylorMade R11 owner... but you still have to swing the club.

 

ya thats what my dad and i are doing this summer. rookie school then auto cross . depending on money ill upgrade for next summer or summer 2013