Stumble
6th Gear
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 2,796
Likes: 0
From: New York
MINI USA claims that the 2004's wont have any software problems. But since no one has a 2004 yet, that remains to be seen. And if the 2004's are okay, does that mean they are just gunna leave all the 2003 owners in the dark?
Coordinator :: Chicago MINI Motoring Club
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 1,251
Likes: 0
From: San Antonio, TX
That is definitely a concern! Especially when you consider the theory that had been tossed around that the big problem they were having was staying true to original 2003 emissions readouts (to maintain California and Massachusetts CARB requirements) while still correcting the Stumble. If this happened, I would gladly go lemon style on 'em!
4th Gear
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 548
Likes: 1
From: Cramerton, NC
I asked MINI to either confirm or deny that the hold up was due to EPA regulations. MINI said, "That could be, since this issue is likely due to fuel/air ratios, but I don't know."
I asked MINI about swapping out my ECU/DME, as others had done. I was told that option is no longer being offered, because they found it didn't work. The stumble returned in those cars.
I asked for am estimated time to fix. MINI doesn't know.
I was told, as before, engineers are working on the issue.
I relayed to the rep that I wasn't mad at him, but I was sure frustrated and angry with MINI for their lack of explanation and lack of response. I asked him to let those in charge know that I was an extremely dissatisfied customer.
At this point, I am about two breaths away from proceeding with lemon law. Why should I drive a MINI that performs poorly and have to wait and wait and wait with no end in sight, just because I got an unlucky roll of the stumble dice. Plus,my paint was flawed from the factory, so just one more reason to toss this one and get a proper new MINI. I'll order a 2004 MINI and be done with it.
I had faith that MINIUSA was being honest with us. I had faith that a fix would shortly be forthcoming, but MINI continues to change their story, and that's directly to me. I'm only referring to what I have been told, personally. They evade the questions. They don't respond to any inquiry with any level of intelligence. "I don't know" is not acceptable.
In the absence of any information from MINIUSA, we will become their voice. We will become their message. We will define their company's image. MINIUSA doesn't rely on conventional advertising, and much of their success is through word of mouth adverting. "Hey, what kind of car is that? Do you like it?".
Here is MINIUSA's new message:
"This car could be a lot of fun, but it's been nothing but headaches. My paint was bad from the factory. They botched the repair job on my paint, making it worse. My car hasn't run properly from day one. It stumbles and surges; it sometimes bogs down in the middle of traffic nearly getting me killed. It rattled like you wouldn't believe the day I took it home. Quality control must have been snorting coke the morning my car was built. I had to rip out my glovebox while on vacation, before I went insane from all the rattling and squeaking. Now, don't get me wrong, it is fun to drive, but I really can't recommend you purchase one, because it's a real crap shoot if you'll get a properly working car. But hey, if you're feeling lucky, roll the dice. Style over substance, I always say. Be cool, man. Own a MINI. When looks are everything, who cares if the car doesn't run worth a crap, right? Am I right? Think of how cool you'll look in one of these MINI's. Yeah, but then when the car pitches forward and stumbles, it does sort of make you look like an idiot that doesn't know how to drive. Well, I better go."
Let's make buying a MINI a crap shoot. Sometimes you win, sometimes you lose. Let's keep tight lipped about problems until our customers are mad with rage. Let's sit on our hands. Let's bury our heads in the sand and hope the stumble issue goes away. Let's plead ignorance. Let's take customer service to an all time low. Let's see if we can lower our already low JD Power's survey score from last year. Let's just hope that cool looks and old reviews will keep our sales alive.
Over the top? You bet your hiney. I'm mad at MINI for being tight-lipped. I'm mad at MINI for producing a great car with sloppy quality control. I'm mad that I paid $23K dollars for a car than runs worse than ANY car I have ever owned before. My 200,000+ mile Jeep runs better than my 5800 mile MINI. I want to be like Cooper4us and say that my MINI is perfect, but it isn't. Far from it.
Disgusted,
JS
I asked MINI about swapping out my ECU/DME, as others had done. I was told that option is no longer being offered, because they found it didn't work. The stumble returned in those cars.
I asked for am estimated time to fix. MINI doesn't know.
I was told, as before, engineers are working on the issue.
I relayed to the rep that I wasn't mad at him, but I was sure frustrated and angry with MINI for their lack of explanation and lack of response. I asked him to let those in charge know that I was an extremely dissatisfied customer.
At this point, I am about two breaths away from proceeding with lemon law. Why should I drive a MINI that performs poorly and have to wait and wait and wait with no end in sight, just because I got an unlucky roll of the stumble dice. Plus,my paint was flawed from the factory, so just one more reason to toss this one and get a proper new MINI. I'll order a 2004 MINI and be done with it.
I had faith that MINIUSA was being honest with us. I had faith that a fix would shortly be forthcoming, but MINI continues to change their story, and that's directly to me. I'm only referring to what I have been told, personally. They evade the questions. They don't respond to any inquiry with any level of intelligence. "I don't know" is not acceptable.
In the absence of any information from MINIUSA, we will become their voice. We will become their message. We will define their company's image. MINIUSA doesn't rely on conventional advertising, and much of their success is through word of mouth adverting. "Hey, what kind of car is that? Do you like it?".
Here is MINIUSA's new message:
"This car could be a lot of fun, but it's been nothing but headaches. My paint was bad from the factory. They botched the repair job on my paint, making it worse. My car hasn't run properly from day one. It stumbles and surges; it sometimes bogs down in the middle of traffic nearly getting me killed. It rattled like you wouldn't believe the day I took it home. Quality control must have been snorting coke the morning my car was built. I had to rip out my glovebox while on vacation, before I went insane from all the rattling and squeaking. Now, don't get me wrong, it is fun to drive, but I really can't recommend you purchase one, because it's a real crap shoot if you'll get a properly working car. But hey, if you're feeling lucky, roll the dice. Style over substance, I always say. Be cool, man. Own a MINI. When looks are everything, who cares if the car doesn't run worth a crap, right? Am I right? Think of how cool you'll look in one of these MINI's. Yeah, but then when the car pitches forward and stumbles, it does sort of make you look like an idiot that doesn't know how to drive. Well, I better go."
Let's make buying a MINI a crap shoot. Sometimes you win, sometimes you lose. Let's keep tight lipped about problems until our customers are mad with rage. Let's sit on our hands. Let's bury our heads in the sand and hope the stumble issue goes away. Let's plead ignorance. Let's take customer service to an all time low. Let's see if we can lower our already low JD Power's survey score from last year. Let's just hope that cool looks and old reviews will keep our sales alive.
Over the top? You bet your hiney. I'm mad at MINI for being tight-lipped. I'm mad at MINI for producing a great car with sloppy quality control. I'm mad that I paid $23K dollars for a car than runs worse than ANY car I have ever owned before. My 200,000+ mile Jeep runs better than my 5800 mile MINI. I want to be like Cooper4us and say that my MINI is perfect, but it isn't. Far from it.
Disgusted,
JS
4th Gear
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 548
Likes: 1
From: Cramerton, NC
Somehow the top of my previous post was truncated. Here it is:
I called MINIUSA, today, and had a lengthy conversation with them. I asked very pointed questions. As you might expect by now, I received very little information.
I asked how many cars are affected. MINI says "I don't know."
I asked about how many calls they receive about the stumble, and they said between 1 and 5 calls per day.
I asked if current production MINI's had the stumble. MINI said, paraphrasing, that some current production MINIs do stumble, others do not. The stumble issue affects cars throughout most of 2003 production year, but there are also 2003 production MINI's that don't stumble. Get this, I asked if it was basically a crap shoot whether a new MINI would stumble, and MINI said "Yes".
I asked MINI was the software to blame. They can't say, anymore.
I asked why the delay was so long in getting a fix. MINI says, "I don't know."
JS
MINI USA claims that the 2004's wont have any software problems. But since no one has a 2004 yet, that remains to be seen. And if the 2004's are okay, does that mean they are just gunna leave all the 2003 owners in the dark?
I asked how many cars are affected. MINI says "I don't know."
I asked about how many calls they receive about the stumble, and they said between 1 and 5 calls per day.
I asked if current production MINI's had the stumble. MINI said, paraphrasing, that some current production MINIs do stumble, others do not. The stumble issue affects cars throughout most of 2003 production year, but there are also 2003 production MINI's that don't stumble. Get this, I asked if it was basically a crap shoot whether a new MINI would stumble, and MINI said "Yes".
I asked MINI was the software to blame. They can't say, anymore.
I asked why the delay was so long in getting a fix. MINI says, "I don't know."
JS
Coordinator :: Chicago MINI Motoring Club
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 1,251
Likes: 0
From: San Antonio, TX
I called MINIUSA twice today. I'm assuming that you're calling 866-ASK-MINI? That's what I'm calling. But surely we can't be calling the same number because whenever I ask them about the Stumble, they always say "You mean 'surging'?" and I say "No, not surging. I get a cut out of the engine for approximately a half second at the exact point when disengaging the clutch pedal and engaging first gear when starting off from a stop." The say "Uh huh..."
I always ask if they're aware of the problem and what they're doing to fix it and when a fix will be available. They always say that they are aware that there are some problems like this and that they're hard at work on them, but that they really have no idea when it will be fixed, but they'll notify my dealer who will notify me.
Well, when I first picked up this car I realized that something was wrong and I asked my dealer and he told me that they were looking at 30 days or so. Well, that was the first week of June, and look: here we are in September!
Good luck people. Keep calling. Write a reminder note next to the phone to call every day until this thing is fixed.
Get angry.
GET IT FIXED!
Maxwell
I always ask if they're aware of the problem and what they're doing to fix it and when a fix will be available. They always say that they are aware that there are some problems like this and that they're hard at work on them, but that they really have no idea when it will be fixed, but they'll notify my dealer who will notify me.
Well, when I first picked up this car I realized that something was wrong and I asked my dealer and he told me that they were looking at 30 days or so. Well, that was the first week of June, and look: here we are in September!
Good luck people. Keep calling. Write a reminder note next to the phone to call every day until this thing is fixed.
Get angry.
GET IT FIXED!
Maxwell
4th Gear
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 548
Likes: 1
From: Cramerton, NC
>I called MINIUSA twice today. I'm assuming that you're calling 866-ASK-MINI?
Yep, that's who I called.
>That's what I'm calling. But surely we can't be calling the same number because
>whenever I ask them about the Stumble, they always say "You mean 'surging'?"
>and I say "No, not surging. I get a cut out of the engine for approximately a half
>second at the exact point when disengaging the clutch pedal and engaging first
>gear when starting off from a stop." The say "Uh huh..."
I think I explained the nature of the problem, first, before I mentioned "stumbling".
The person I spoke to was well aware of what I was talking about.
By now they probably have my name in a bad-boy file. :smile:
See ya,
JS
Yep, that's who I called.
>That's what I'm calling. But surely we can't be calling the same number because
>whenever I ask them about the Stumble, they always say "You mean 'surging'?"
>and I say "No, not surging. I get a cut out of the engine for approximately a half
>second at the exact point when disengaging the clutch pedal and engaging first
>gear when starting off from a stop." The say "Uh huh..."
I think I explained the nature of the problem, first, before I mentioned "stumbling".
The person I spoke to was well aware of what I was talking about.
By now they probably have my name in a bad-boy file. :smile:
See ya,
JS
2nd Gear
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 147
Likes: 0
From: Ft.Lauderdale
>>At this point, I am about two breaths away from proceeding with lemon law. >>Disgusted,
>>JS
Take 2 deep breaths and go for it - I am and I'm sure we'll all be much happier when we have another car - be it a (working) mini or otherwise. We can't loose this battle. BMW have a totally indefensible position -whether you have mods or not.
Time to teach big brother BMW a little lesson in customer relations.
Ditto on the rest of your post JS
_________________
'03 S DS
>>JS
Take 2 deep breaths and go for it - I am and I'm sure we'll all be much happier when we have another car - be it a (working) mini or otherwise. We can't loose this battle. BMW have a totally indefensible position -whether you have mods or not.
Time to teach big brother BMW a little lesson in customer relations.
Ditto on the rest of your post JS
_________________
'03 S DS
4th Gear
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 548
Likes: 1
From: Cramerton, NC
Why not try some experimentation with the integrity of MINIUSA. Call 1-866-ASK-MINI and tell them you're an owner with the stumble issue and ask some questions regarding the stumble. Then call back on a different phone, because some systems track your number through caller-id, and tell them you're thinking of buying a MINI, but are concerned by what you read on-line. See if you get different responses.
See ya,
JS
See ya,
JS
6th Gear
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 2,796
Likes: 0
From: New York
well said jstines, everytime I call MINI USA I get a totally different story from the last time I called, and my service advisor gives me a different story from that. This is insane, we didnt but a t shirt, this is a 23k car....thats a lot of money and it should work right. Ok my hand is tired as I am typing this on a pocket pc, at the beach. 
OVERDRIVE
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 6,365
Likes: 2
From: Yinzer in Exile
<<<Yes i'm sure the dealer is going to call me tomorrow and this is exactly why i'm not going to buy one right now its sad though.>>>
THANKS PAUL!!!!!
Perhaps if potential customers start bitching, moaning and stopping their purchases, maybe then they'll listen...
Re: the powerchip ECU upgrade, since I've heard it mentioned as a potential fix...
Why doesn't BMW just buy us all one? I mean, it'd be a fix--definitely not one they'd prefer but you know what, they have a problem to fix and they need to fix it in any way possible.
I'll be calling ASK MINI once a day now--perhaps twice on Sundays. And I'm breathing fire at my service guys on Tuesday. I've been sitting in the wings (complaining to the dealer sporadically) for way too long now, knowing there wasn't a fix. NO MORE MS. NICE WOMAN!!!
THANKS PAUL!!!!!
Perhaps if potential customers start bitching, moaning and stopping their purchases, maybe then they'll listen...
Re: the powerchip ECU upgrade, since I've heard it mentioned as a potential fix...
Why doesn't BMW just buy us all one? I mean, it'd be a fix--definitely not one they'd prefer but you know what, they have a problem to fix and they need to fix it in any way possible.
I'll be calling ASK MINI once a day now--perhaps twice on Sundays. And I'm breathing fire at my service guys on Tuesday. I've been sitting in the wings (complaining to the dealer sporadically) for way too long now, knowing there wasn't a fix. NO MORE MS. NICE WOMAN!!!
I'd be very interested in hearing if the Powerchip ECU is CARB certified...or at least in hearing the experiences of anyone in CA or MA who has tried to get through the full set of emissions inspections with a chipped car.
I'm the one (I think) who started the theory about the software and emissions compliance, and I still think that this is the reason behind the lack of a solution for 2002 and 2003 stumblers. BMW can't fix the problem without significantly changing the car's emissions profile...and recertifying existing cars is either impossible or very expensive (for BMW).
I intend to do a bit of a test on this this coming week when I have to get my car inspected. I installed an intake a while back and it took care of about 90% of the stumble (i.e,. it now doesn't stumble 9 out of 10 times when it would have stumbled before I got the intake). I'm going to try to get my car through emissions with the intake installed, and I have my doubts that it'll pass. If I'm right, then that definitely would seem to show a connection between emissions and stumbling. Anyhow, I'll post results (incl. where my car's readings fall within/outside of acceptable ranges for the various test components).
I'm the one (I think) who started the theory about the software and emissions compliance, and I still think that this is the reason behind the lack of a solution for 2002 and 2003 stumblers. BMW can't fix the problem without significantly changing the car's emissions profile...and recertifying existing cars is either impossible or very expensive (for BMW).
I intend to do a bit of a test on this this coming week when I have to get my car inspected. I installed an intake a while back and it took care of about 90% of the stumble (i.e,. it now doesn't stumble 9 out of 10 times when it would have stumbled before I got the intake). I'm going to try to get my car through emissions with the intake installed, and I have my doubts that it'll pass. If I'm right, then that definitely would seem to show a connection between emissions and stumbling. Anyhow, I'll post results (incl. where my car's readings fall within/outside of acceptable ranges for the various test components).
2nd Gear
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 62
Likes: 0
From: NJ Shore
For all those who would like to know, I posted this in the other Stumble topic:
My MCS developed a stumble issue in my June'02 build car sometime in July of this year after recieving updated software for a cold start problem. I just picked up my car yesterday after spending 1.5 weeks at the dealer, the stumble/hickup is gone. Of course my car's DME spent about a week at BMW headquarters for reprogramming. I couldn't tell you what software version is in there or if it is what to be expected in December. However I can say that the problem is definately gone (for now at least). Of course my car didn't start up on the first try this morning :evil: :evil:
My MCS developed a stumble issue in my June'02 build car sometime in July of this year after recieving updated software for a cold start problem. I just picked up my car yesterday after spending 1.5 weeks at the dealer, the stumble/hickup is gone. Of course my car's DME spent about a week at BMW headquarters for reprogramming. I couldn't tell you what software version is in there or if it is what to be expected in December. However I can say that the problem is definately gone (for now at least). Of course my car didn't start up on the first try this morning :evil: :evil:
2nd Gear
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 62
Likes: 0
From: NJ Shore
To add to my post above. I brought the car to the dealer before labor day for a list of problems including the stumble problem, cold start (again) and other accumilated issues (my MCS averages one trip every two months to the dealer). The dealer sent the DME to MINI/BMW US headquarters (Woodcliff Lake, NJ) where they spent some time reprogramming it. So far I've driven about 90 miles (70 from the dealer in stop and go rush hour traffic) and not one hint of a stumble. But like I mentioned before the car didn't start on he first try this morning (a problem I don't think has ever really been fixed after numerous trips to the dealer) so there might be some tradeoff for having the stumble fixed :???:
4th Gear
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 449
Likes: 0
From: Export, Pa
>><<<Yes i'm sure the dealer is going to call me tomorrow and this is exactly why i'm not going to buy one right now its sad though.>>>
>>
>>THANKS PAUL!!!!!
>>:D
>>Perhaps if potential customers start bitching, moaning and stopping their purchases, maybe then they'll listen...
>>
>>
>>Re: the powerchip ECU upgrade, since I've heard it mentioned as a potential fix...
>>Why doesn't BMW just buy us all one? I mean, it'd be a fix--definitely not one they'd prefer but you know what, they have a problem to fix and they need to fix it in any way possible.
>>
>>I'll be calling ASK MINI once a day now--perhaps twice on Sundays. And I'm breathing fire at my service guys on Tuesday. I've been sitting in the wings (complaining to the dealer sporadically) for way too long now, knowing there wasn't a fix. NO MORE MS. NICE WOMAN!!!
OmToast, the Powerchip software does not fix the stumble, look at my sig line!
Powerchip never had a stumble car to test with. But they are willing to try. I've had a post out there on the S. Cal forum looking for a candidate and nobody has come forward. They would get a free rental car while Powerchip worked on their car.
Graham
>>
>>THANKS PAUL!!!!!
>>:D
>>Perhaps if potential customers start bitching, moaning and stopping their purchases, maybe then they'll listen...
>>
>>
>>Re: the powerchip ECU upgrade, since I've heard it mentioned as a potential fix...
>>Why doesn't BMW just buy us all one? I mean, it'd be a fix--definitely not one they'd prefer but you know what, they have a problem to fix and they need to fix it in any way possible.
>>
>>I'll be calling ASK MINI once a day now--perhaps twice on Sundays. And I'm breathing fire at my service guys on Tuesday. I've been sitting in the wings (complaining to the dealer sporadically) for way too long now, knowing there wasn't a fix. NO MORE MS. NICE WOMAN!!!
OmToast, the Powerchip software does not fix the stumble, look at my sig line!
Powerchip never had a stumble car to test with. But they are willing to try. I've had a post out there on the S. Cal forum looking for a candidate and nobody has come forward. They would get a free rental car while Powerchip worked on their car.
Graham
4th Gear
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 362
Likes: 0
jsun wrote:
>>I'd be very interested in hearing if the Powerchip ECU is CARB certified...or at least in hearing the experiences of anyone in CA or MA who has tried to get through the full set of emissions inspections with a chipped car.
>>
I would not be surprised if cars with Powerchip ECU software actually runs CLEANER than cars with factory software. We all know that the factory software runs very rich, which leaves black residue on the exhaust pipes. I don't know if Powerchip software does this, but one way to get more power is to get closer to the optimal fuel/air ratio. Since I remembered someone reporting that the black residue on the exhaust pipe reduced after they flashed their software with an aftermarket one, I would expect cars with aftermarket ECUs to be actually cleaner.
>>I'd be very interested in hearing if the Powerchip ECU is CARB certified...or at least in hearing the experiences of anyone in CA or MA who has tried to get through the full set of emissions inspections with a chipped car.
>>
I would not be surprised if cars with Powerchip ECU software actually runs CLEANER than cars with factory software. We all know that the factory software runs very rich, which leaves black residue on the exhaust pipes. I don't know if Powerchip software does this, but one way to get more power is to get closer to the optimal fuel/air ratio. Since I remembered someone reporting that the black residue on the exhaust pipe reduced after they flashed their software with an aftermarket one, I would expect cars with aftermarket ECUs to be actually cleaner.
4th Gear
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 548
Likes: 1
From: Cramerton, NC
My MCS developed a stumble issue in my June'02 build car sometime in July of this year after recieving updated software for a cold start problem. I just picked up my car yesterday after spending 1.5 weeks at the dealer, the stumble/hickup is gone. Of course my car's DME spent about a week at BMW headquarters for reprogramming.
People, MINIUSA is either dishonest or disorganized. Take your pick.
Also, the more I think about this, the more confused I become. If this was strictly software related as we were thinking, all cars with the current software would stumble, but they don't. Some cars that didn't stumble in the past were upgraded to new software, and they began stumbling. So, maybe this is a combination involving both software AND some hardware problem, and maybe MINI really doesn't yet know what combination produces this problem.
I'm researching lemon law. Does anyone know if the jurisdiction for lemon law falls to the state in which the car was purchased, or the state in which one lives? I purchased in South Carolinas, but the car is registered in North Carolina. No need to keep beating my head against the wall. I'll just get another MINI and be done with it.
See ya,
JS
Coordinator :: Chicago MINI Motoring Club
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 1,251
Likes: 0
From: San Antonio, TX
People, MINIUSA is either dishonest or disorganized. Take your pick.
I'm a little confused about these lines:
If this was strictly software related as we were thinking, all cars with the current software would stumble, but they don't. Some cars that didn't stumble in the past were upgraded to new software, and they began stumbling.
The problem is that we have no idea how to identify what software we all have in our cars. If we could just sneak a peak at the software version on our individual MCSs, then this thread would be a whole lot more interesting and a whole lot less speculative. I thought that pretty much all "recently" software-upgraded MCSs had the stumble, but I really don't know that to be a fact, it just seems that way.
What I really can't explain is how there are a certain number of may/june build cars which don't have the stumble. Is it possible that they were being loaded with an older or newer version of software that was known to be stumble free? Is it possible that they were put out as guinea pigs and the MINI people stand back with bated breath waiting to see if someone with one of the guinea-pig cars will call in to ASK MINI? I don't know. What I do know is that my car was built in mid May and was delivered with the stumble. My friend Scott's car was built in early May, and his car was delivered stumble-free. I think nomonstersinme (among others) had June build MCSs that contain no trace of stumble. Lately I've been hearing of recently delivered MINIs coming pre-packaged with the stumble.
As I understood it, the software induced stumble existed back in the early spring...March? So how could cars be built stumble free one week, then containing the stumble the next week, then not containing it two weeks later!??!?!
If you have received an MCS in the last four months, please respond to the recently revived Poll posted in this forum and let us know your Stumble status.
Thanks (if you're still reading!)
4th Gear
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 548
Likes: 1
From: Cramerton, NC
As I understood it, the software induced stumble existed back in the early spring...March? So how could cars be built stumble free one week, then containing the stumble the next week, then not containing it two weeks later!??!?!
I just want a working MINI with good paint. I love working MINIs. Unfortunately, mine doesn't make the cut.
See ya,
JS
Coordinator :: Chicago MINI Motoring Club
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 1,251
Likes: 0
From: San Antonio, TX
JS,
I hear you, but I don't believe them. What a load of crap. So this car here stumbles and the one right behind it on the assembly line doesn't? My BS-Detector is blowing up. That just makes it easier for them to claim that it's a really complicated solution that may take them months, or years even, to fix. It's not like there is this certain screw somewhere that occasionally isn't all the way in, and if it were only turned then the stumble would be gone. No way. I think it's software pure and simple. Those who received the stumble through upgrades can attest to that: they take the car in to the dealer with a little cold start problem, and when they receive it back, it's completely stumble-ridden. Ask Sol at Perfect Power. They did it to him and then told him that maybe he wasn't very good at driving stick...a guy who's been racing Porsches for decades...unbelievable.
I still stand squarely in the "purely a software problem" camp...but of course, the disclaimer: that's just one man's opinion.
Throw us a frickin' bone here MINI Division!
I hear you, but I don't believe them. What a load of crap. So this car here stumbles and the one right behind it on the assembly line doesn't? My BS-Detector is blowing up. That just makes it easier for them to claim that it's a really complicated solution that may take them months, or years even, to fix. It's not like there is this certain screw somewhere that occasionally isn't all the way in, and if it were only turned then the stumble would be gone. No way. I think it's software pure and simple. Those who received the stumble through upgrades can attest to that: they take the car in to the dealer with a little cold start problem, and when they receive it back, it's completely stumble-ridden. Ask Sol at Perfect Power. They did it to him and then told him that maybe he wasn't very good at driving stick...a guy who's been racing Porsches for decades...unbelievable.
I still stand squarely in the "purely a software problem" camp...but of course, the disclaimer: that's just one man's opinion.
Throw us a frickin' bone here MINI Division!
4th Gear
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 449
Likes: 0
From: Export, Pa
>>jsun wrote:
>>>>I'd be very interested in hearing if the Powerchip ECU is CARB certified...or at least in hearing the experiences of anyone in CA or MA who has tried to get through the full set of emissions inspections with a chipped car.
>>>>
>>I would not be surprised if cars with Powerchip ECU software actually runs CLEANER than cars with factory software. We all know that the factory software runs very rich, which leaves black residue on the exhaust pipes. I don't know if Powerchip software does this, but one way to get more power is to get closer to the optimal fuel/air ratio. Since I remembered someone reporting that the black residue on the exhaust pipe reduced after they flashed their software with an aftermarket one, I would expect cars with aftermarket ECUs to be actually cleaner.
Here's what I know based on Randy's testing of various ECU mods.
The stock ECU runs rich. For a forced induction engine, we need about 12.5:1 A/F ratio.. The stock car is about 11:1, so we're losing some HP there. Add a pulley and we go to 9.5 or worse (according to Randy). The search then started for an ECU tuner that could get us to 12.5 and Randy found EvoTech. I can attest to the fact that adding EvoTech to my car after already having the pulley was like having another pulley's worth of power due to better mapping.
Then Randy worked with Powerchip and found even more power due to their work on improving throttle response. Randy helped Powerchip build in his performance mappings on top of the throttle response mappings and da da! Here we have something that really lights the fire! I really believe the A/F ratio is pretty well optimized across the 7200 rpm range. BTW that is up from the stock 6950. For anyone that really cares, 14.7 is the holy grail for A/F but that's not for performance cars, just economy cars.
Graham
>>>>I'd be very interested in hearing if the Powerchip ECU is CARB certified...or at least in hearing the experiences of anyone in CA or MA who has tried to get through the full set of emissions inspections with a chipped car.
>>>>
>>I would not be surprised if cars with Powerchip ECU software actually runs CLEANER than cars with factory software. We all know that the factory software runs very rich, which leaves black residue on the exhaust pipes. I don't know if Powerchip software does this, but one way to get more power is to get closer to the optimal fuel/air ratio. Since I remembered someone reporting that the black residue on the exhaust pipe reduced after they flashed their software with an aftermarket one, I would expect cars with aftermarket ECUs to be actually cleaner.
Here's what I know based on Randy's testing of various ECU mods.
The stock ECU runs rich. For a forced induction engine, we need about 12.5:1 A/F ratio.. The stock car is about 11:1, so we're losing some HP there. Add a pulley and we go to 9.5 or worse (according to Randy). The search then started for an ECU tuner that could get us to 12.5 and Randy found EvoTech. I can attest to the fact that adding EvoTech to my car after already having the pulley was like having another pulley's worth of power due to better mapping.
Then Randy worked with Powerchip and found even more power due to their work on improving throttle response. Randy helped Powerchip build in his performance mappings on top of the throttle response mappings and da da! Here we have something that really lights the fire! I really believe the A/F ratio is pretty well optimized across the 7200 rpm range. BTW that is up from the stock 6950. For anyone that really cares, 14.7 is the holy grail for A/F but that's not for performance cars, just economy cars.
Graham
2nd Gear
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 147
Likes: 0
From: Ft.Lauderdale
>>
>>I still stand squarely in the "purely a software problem" camp...but of course, the disclaimer: that's just one man's opinion.
>>
>>Throw us a frickin' bone here MINI Division!
>>
>>
The fact that cars have had a stumble introduced instantaneously with a software revision does support this being a software only problem but this again begs the question - Give me the car that doesn't stumble software? To which there is a deafening silence from the ranks of BMW.
Does anyone know Jack Pitneys phone #?
>>I still stand squarely in the "purely a software problem" camp...but of course, the disclaimer: that's just one man's opinion.
>>
>>Throw us a frickin' bone here MINI Division!
>>
>>
The fact that cars have had a stumble introduced instantaneously with a software revision does support this being a software only problem but this again begs the question - Give me the car that doesn't stumble software? To which there is a deafening silence from the ranks of BMW.
Does anyone know Jack Pitneys phone #?
OVERDRIVE
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 6,365
Likes: 2
From: Yinzer in Exile
Ok, I'm trying to hang on to all this tech-talk and, thanks to some really clear explanations, I think I'm still a viable conversationalist. But here's MY disclaimer: the following may, in fact, be suggestions already beaten to death, just rearranged slightly to suit my level of understanding.
Since the problem seems increasingly random and weird...
If we give MINIUSA the benefit of the doubt (something I'm willing to do only for the sake of argument) and assume that they AREN'T using consumers as guinea pigs for new stumble fixes, could the non-software-complicating-factor be the ECU itself? Since several people have been told that at least part of the problem is the incomplete loading of the software, could the incomplete loading be what causes the absurdly rich A/F mixture? And could an otherwise busted ECU prevent the software from loading correctly? Should I just stick to analyzing old buildings? What is the meaning of life....?
Since the problem seems increasingly random and weird...
If we give MINIUSA the benefit of the doubt (something I'm willing to do only for the sake of argument) and assume that they AREN'T using consumers as guinea pigs for new stumble fixes, could the non-software-complicating-factor be the ECU itself? Since several people have been told that at least part of the problem is the incomplete loading of the software, could the incomplete loading be what causes the absurdly rich A/F mixture? And could an otherwise busted ECU prevent the software from loading correctly? Should I just stick to analyzing old buildings? What is the meaning of life....?
2nd Gear
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 62
Likes: 0
From: NJ Shore
Now, forcer78, how can this be, because I just spoke to 1-866-ASK-MINI, yesterday, and they told me they are no longer doing this procedure, because it didn't work.