Does anyone have any proven dynos with the stock 2005 exhaust versus aftermarket yet?

 

I owned a 2003 and the exhaust note was great but the 2005 tends to be louder and it cracks and pops when you let off the throttle. I don't think i'll need an after market unit.

 

I agree, the exhaust is phenomenal, and given the very small gains you see on exhausts for this engine, I don't think I'll mess with success... unless of course I end up pushing enough power through that it becomes worth it.

-mike

 

I think the only thing an aftermarket exhaust can add is the weight savings over stock.

 

The '05 S exhaust is different than the previous years? Any info on exactly what has been changed? Less baffles?

FWIW, my car used to crackle and pop when it was stock too. However, now that I have the supersprint the pops are just louder and deeper, especially with the bypass valve zip-tied shut.

 

Don't know the specifics but the 05 sounds are more "raw". Mini specifically tried to make it sound like the classic rally minis.

 

All I know is it is less restrictive and is partially responsible for the gains to be found in the '05 over the older MCS. Oh, that and it sounds totally sweet.

-mike

 

We did the one-ball on the '05 the first week it was here out of pure curiousity, and it heightened the noise and snap-crackle-pop a lot. Good stuff

 

Oh reeeeeaally? I may have to do that!

 

Sounds really good in the cabin with the back seats out too!

 

I finally heard an '05 from outside the car....it sounds just as raspy/ricey as the previous stock exhaust It does sound better from inside the car, but knowing how buzzy it sounds to everyone else is a deal-breaker for me.

 

I am more concerned with the sound inside of the cabin. Their opinions aren't going to make my drives any less fun, but my opinion would.

Anyways, I'm not about to spend $600 on an exhaust for 3-5HP. I can throw an old cherry bomb on it for $10 and be done. Hmmm... I do have one laying around...

 

Just how good? It works I suppose. And sounds OK inside, but if an when you roll the window down your illusion of throatiness will end.

I used to own a Civic with a stock exhaust. When you revved the crap out of it going through the gears it didn't sound bad (inside). But we all know the truth of what it sounded like outside Methinks automotive equivalent to 98lb weakling - trying to sound tough.

The OE MCS exhaust just sounds too tin-ie for me. YMMV.

Obviously you're gonna spend your $ on whatever makes you happy. But if I might make a suggestion... You'd appreciated the Milltek & should give one a listen.

Just my .02

 

On the other hand, you can spend $600-$900 making your car sound fast, or you can spend $600-$900 making your car faster. I choose number 2!

 

Don't knock aftermakert exhausts on the whole - there are a couple that give positive gains, but I've found that which work is very individual car reactive (see my Dog MCS thread). There are plenty of other garbage aftermarket products that cost much more than a cat-back that give less in return. Also, tailoring the sound of your MINI to your personality is half the point of an exhaust. Why settle for "sounding good from the inside only" when you can have "sounding great everywhere!"

I hope that helps see the other perspective.
Cheers,
Ryan

 

Actually the Milltek works pretty damn well. ...And I went with a Magnaflow - so no Milltek bias here. And I choose #2 also

 

My concern is that gain of an exhaust on a 2005 MCS will not be nearly as high as the 02-04 because of the redesigned exhaust. That is why I started this thread. I would like to have someone with a stock 02-04 dyno their MCS and then put an 05 exhaust on and dyno it. I suspect the gains will not be too shabby.

 

I see where you're going with this... but you'd need to put an 02-04 exhaust on a 2005 and dyno in addition to dynoing the 05 system - to be comparing apples to apples. ...And I don't know anyone who's gonna do this for you.

What are the resellers / tuners saying? Helix? Webb? Others?

I know they're saying the 05 has 170 hp vs. the 02-04, but I thought these gains were from changes to the S/C and its being more efficient. Could they be getting 7 hp out of the exhaust? Its possible, but not likely. ...And if not, then how much do you think the exhaust is responsible for?

 

I agree. You have to look at the 02-04 with stock exhaust and 05 exhaust and get dynos then compare to an 05 with stock exhaust and 02-04 exhaust and dyno again.

Any gains in HP for the 05 MCS may be a combination of all changes not just the exhaust. I would guess that the exhaust itself doesn't really make any more power than before although the sound might be different.

While the extra 5 HP is welcome, the added change in appearance and sound is the most obvious reason to consider an aftermarket exhaust. The relative gains from one product to the next is fairly small due to other limitations in the MINI's engine design (there are other bottlenecks to improving power).

The biggest mistake made is to give up quietness (cabin noise or street noise) and comfort for the sake of a few more HP. Droning gets old really fast and most of us are not building track MINIs but daily drivers. Choose wisely. If possible always take a listen in person before buying- listen inside and out- go for a drive.

 

This is all idle speculation...

I've heard over and over again that the 05s are supposed to have a few extra HP, but nothing about where it came from. Has MINI said officially how they did this? I've also heard that they've tweaked the exhaust a bit, but all the aftermarket exhaust/dyno threads seem to indicate that 7 HP (was that the amount? from 163 to 170HP?) is a lot to obtain just from exhaust tweaks, especially without making the car a lot louder. This thread would also seem to indicate that the 05s sound a bit throater from inside but not from outside. Makes me wonder if other things (like sound-proofing or hanger mounts) weren't "tuned" to get this change in sound.

Another current thread about trying to fit the JCW tips to the 05 exhaust seems to indicate they've increased the diameter of the 05 exhaust (or at least, the diameter of the tips). Maybe that changed the sound? (And added the 7HP?) (irony)

Could some of the HP gain have come from changes to the software? It sounds like the MTH-powerchip software upgrade adds a few HP. (Am I going to get banned for promoting them?) (more irony) Could MINI have reverse-engineered MTH or one of the others?

And last but not least, as Andy's sig says, "Show me the numbers!" (No, I don't read German. But I do speak Babelfish.) Has anyone dyno'ed a stock 05 vs. stock earlier years? Has anyone posted "controlled" (by which I mean same track, same day, same driver, same wheels/tires, preferably multiple runs) 0-60 or quarter mile times for 05s vs. earlier years? (I know the changed gearing becomes another variable in this equation, but I'm still curious about this. I haven't seen 05 times. Has anyone else?)

What about butt dynos and "casual" street races? I seem to recall that only a few of the gears were changed - what was it? Second and third? Do the 05s feel faster (or pull away from earlier cars) in the unchanged gears? ("Casual street race" experimental design - on an open 2 lane road, driving along next to each other in an unchanged gear, at some predetermined signal, floor it and see if one pulls away from the other. I know there's a lot of variation in these cars, especially due to the adaptive ECU. Could this be enough to nullify a 7HP difference, assuming it exists?)

Inquiring minds wanna know!

 

Well, I have been to three shops so far, all say it is not worth it. The exhaust will need three bends, a 90 degree, a 10 degree up and a 10 degree down, because the pipe coming out of the catalytic converter is about 1.5" below the muffler, meaning the curved piece must go right and up.

 

what about the '06? any info on that exhaust?

 

When we test drove a MINI in 05' the salesman at the dealer said that the exhaust for 05' was new. He said that the ECU had been changed so that when you lift off the throttle the it messes w/ the A/F ratio tho make it crackle/burble. I guess this equates to slight backfiring. I don't think (speculating) that the physical exhaust changed in 05', but the ECU did. Then again the hangers changed....

As for how well it flows- I don't think it flows very well. I have a TCSportline exhaust and I've noticed slightly less power down low and more power up top. I've seen pics of them opened up and it has a lot of twists and turns. It weighs a frickin ton too.

 

I had never heard that the exhaust was changed from 05 on performance wise, just the rear hanger arrangement. I was also told the added exhaust burble and pops were from ECU changes.

The only difference in hp from pre to post '05 is advertized as 5 hp (USA) and I was told that was from coated vanes inside the S/C ala pre 05 JCW. This was all from the MA, btw...

Nevertheless, realoem.com has different product numbers for the different yr exhaust from 7/04 on, but I don't know if that's from the hanger arrangement.

 

+ 1 ^^^

One difference when going to an aftermarket exhaust is the weight of the system. The OEM MINI system is very heavy.