"It follows then that many people will quit posting altogether, even when they may have valuable information to share."

so hasn't the over active censure amounted to the same thing?

 

So in other words...this is no longer an open forum for mini enthusiats, it is attempting to be a business for a family (good luck to anyone trying to make a good living simply from a forum, it's not an original idea), and is in existence mainly to serve the source of funds (vendors, advertisers), hence it is extremely closed to open discussion and negativity, even if warranted, to said source of funds.


Well, now everything makes perfect sense.

So who's got the biggest, non-biased, North American based, open community going now?

 

In a way. Still, I differentiate between those who are censored because of their disrespect toward others, and those who censor themselves because they don't want to subject themselves to ridicule.

Let me say also, I'm not in favor of the overactive censure. I'm not in favor of removing whole threads. However, I also realize how hard a job it would be to moderate some of these threads. I wouldn't want to do it. And, as for me, I may run up against this censorship at some point (I have probably come close a few times) but I'm mainly here to have fun, learn a few things about the MINI and the people that love them, and interact with some of these folks in a fruitful manner. I appreciate that opportunity!

 

censure...censor different meanings.

 

Very Well.

In a way. Still, I differentiate between those who are censured because of their disrespect toward others, and those who censor themselves because they don't want to subject themselves to ridicule.

 

Yeah. Censure is usually invoked by government bodies against one or more of their members, but that's politics, and that's a big no-no here.

 

I would love to see those who were kicked off to come back. I mean you have to have some diversity. I think they should abide by the rules and be warned if you start to act up again your out permanetly. The only thing is, is that now that they have be deported/betrayed by their "friends" and fellow motorers they probably won't come back, and their enjoyment of their fun little car is probably diminished also.

If I didn't have someone to talk to, complain to, and laugh with (as El Diablito and I did many times), I don't know if I would even care about MINIs near as much as I currently do. This has hurt me because most of the people that would answer my stupid/controversial/curious threads are now gone. Also I have lost a couple friends in the process, I was in contact with El Diablito (via PM) almost daily then one day I went to PM him and the screen would keep sending me back to my letter and say no such member or what ever, this hurts me because I never even go to meet him, as I would have as we planned to at the Dragon next year.

Also my view on street racing (as by looking through the moderators log), it seems that it is very prevalent on this website, I really dont think it belongs here but if you delete these guys threads,(I know this because I know street racers who I am friends with) it won't discourage them from doing it ever again.

This entire situation has hurt me and many others personally. We have lost friends/co-horts, our enjoyment, our enthusiasm, and our sense of community and fellowship that this site is supposed to have. We are all here for a common reason and that is that we share a love for our little cars. Up until now NAM has been, and provided this, but with the removal of some of it's players it has gone from a colorful and bright community of people of varoius ethnicities, ages, backgorunds, locations, poltitical prefrences, sexual preferences, occupations, hobbies, and attitudes, to one with a very black and white character. I just wish we could forget all our differences and all unite under one common friendship and share our enjoyment of our MINIs freely once more.

Sincerely

Mike E. Goodrich

 

I'm glad we are different, and that we remind each other of that. Or it would be boring.

 

right on!!!!!

 

I also agree with that 100%. Unfortunately it's been made very clear that the reasons most of US are here, are not the reasons the forum is here. Things clearly are not going to change, so we can either deal, or move on.

 

Whether you believe it or not we made many attempts to get these individuals to abide by the rules. As they continued to violate the rule we put in place we were left no alternative but to remove them. There is a big difference between being colorful and conterversial and making a point to violate site rules.

Mark

 

I find it interesting how anyone can describe WHO the key players were/are?? I mean, what does that mean? Come on, NAM's existence isn't reliant on a few colorful people. Personally I don't think any particular individual is KEY to the existence of NAM. In fact, there are several people that I wish would just go away and stop posting when they have nothing beneficial or positive to share with the community, but for some reason they continue to exist, atleast for the time being.

This whole thread began as a question to why NAM seems boring, and several posters commented as to what they deemed as unworthy topics populating the forums. Seems to me that it's summer time and like last year at this time, things are just quieter--so maybe we should all just get out and drive some more, and worry less about where NAM is going? Maybe even hook up with some of those *banned* persons outside of NAM??

 

how about a frank report from the moderators describing (anonymously) the amount of vendor complaints and number of different vendors complaining viv a' vis the various personalities who got ejected. This would confirm or deny the reports I have been getting about NAM bending to pressure from certain vendors.


here is one tale,for example: outspoken member1 was getting a lot of moderator clipping in his posts and eventually was ejected. that same member is having some $ collection issues with board financial supporter vendor1, known to be a vociferous complainer to the moderators against "bashing" his products.

 

So it doesn't matter how many times your told that people have only been banned for violating site rules, you're still going to throw around false accusations that members are being banned because a vendor pushed them to be? Hey didn't you pay to get "manufacturer" under your name... If you think it's possible for a vendor to push somebody off the site, why don't you try it and see what happens first hand? You seem to think advertisers have some control over content here, why don't you exercise some of that control and see how that works for you?

Nobody has been banned from NAM for speaking out against a vendor. EVER. Those that have been banned have always been for belittleling and demeaning other members repeatedly, and other violations of site guidelines. You want to voice your opinion... you've always been welcome to. The only restriction is that if you're opinion is along the lines of "user XXXX is a fxxxx moron who shouldn't be allowed to breed..." see that's insulting, and that type of thing isn't allowed.

From the way I've seen the comments here boring= no conflicts. Boring=Members are getting along... And from the comments posted by many, they don't want people getting along...

 

Now that's negative!

Mikey

He isn't talking about me or you kaelaria is he?

 

I just believe everyone should just forget everything said and come together. I'm tired of all this (^) bickering, I mean people make mistakes, it's part of life. If you can't except that than, well... Yes, maybe some of us need to be put on some sort of internet aderol, but your going to meet some of these same people in real life, so if you think you can come online and not find these wierdos than you're also stupid.
I mean, can't we all just go out motoring and come back tomorrow with a rejuvenated smile and a new outlook on this forum?

Mike

 

I think it's just another good example of a mod abusing power and bringing a personal agenda to the job...just my opinion.

 

The way I see it boring = no members bothering to post, boring = no constructive dialogs happening, boring = no innovation, boring = stifling atmosphere, boring = no creativity, boring = lack of intellectual stimulation, boring = loss of community and energy. So, yeah, mods might daydream about no conflicts and members getting along, and that is quite achievable on a dead site. A certain amount of confict is unavoidable when a large amount of people are actively posting and interacting with one another and becoming involved. You guys volunteered to moderate, so expect there to be some work needing done. If you guys are looking for a quick way to reduce your 'workload', try this link.

I truly value the efforts and achievements made by the people on this site. I am amazed at what has and can be done with and centered around these cars. I look at the whole picture here and see that the comparitively low amount of drama was more than worth the greater good that has occurred. Feel overwhelmed? Sign on more help. With Mr. Ferguson tasked almost exclusively with the (difficult at most times) commercial aspects of this site, I see the influence on and the control of the community end of it concentrated on a mere two people. A couple remaining core mods assist and the remaining local forum coordinators deal with issues specific to their forums. I feel it's this 'command structure' that is at times contributing to the 'staleness' of this community.

I wont presume that all the good folks are 'jumping ship' from NAM, but it seems we are stuck in port because people don't want to come back from shore leave.

Two more cents worth,

Phil

 

I think my intent was mis-construed. I made no accusation, I simply asked for a moderator to frankly address what I had heard.

this was the "frank" comment I received back:

"So it doesn't matter how many times your told that people have only been banned for violating site rules, you're still going to throw around false accusations that members are being banned because a vendor pushed them to be? Hey didn't you pay to get "manufacturer" under your name... If you think it's possible for a vendor to push somebody off the site, why don't you try it and see what happens first hand? You seem to think advertisers have some control over content here, why don't you exercise some of that control and see how that works for you?"

I'm going to take that as a moderator response that what I had heard was incorrect and overlook the personal attack tone.
A simple "NAM has not bent under vendor pressure" would have been fine.

 

Mike,

From the beginning, in 2002, the MINI culture has been about fun! The fun of ordering our MINIs; the fun of meeting others who are also awaiting their new MINIs, and sharing our specs; the fun of finding out about local and regional clubs; the fun of auto-crossing; the fun of going to big events like MINIs On The Dragon; the fun of hanging out here on NAM, whether in Performance Mods or in Off Topic. It is NOT fun when someone tries their best to SPOIL the fun for everyone else. There are ways to critique and influence things here without resorting to tiresome attacks, whining, and flames.

I know you mean only the best with your comments, but I see that you joined NAM in December 2004. There were SERIOUS violators flaming up the boards here prior to your membership, beginning in the summer of 2003. Believe me, Mark was more than fair to the offenders, giving them numerous warnings. They were trying their best to destroy the site, causing horrible dissention, and dominating it with their trollish agendas.

When a member disregards the site's rules, basically daring the Admins and Moderators to deal with him/her, they've abused their privilege to post and must be banned.

And being banned is permanent. No "take-overs" are permitted. It undermines the experience of the site for everyone when the rules are not fairly administered. I don't think you'd enjoy coming here if it were full of nasty flame-athons.

I hope this helps.


Clover

 

Hey Mike, actually I wasn't, but if the shoe fits......

As for Kaelaria---I didn't mention names nor point out any particular individuals. But I am curious, what kind of abuse of power have I done?? Where is the personal agenda? Please elaborate, I'm sure we ALL want to know!! It definitely makes NAM less boring!!!

 

Sorry, that would be violating the rules, going off topic, and I'm sure it would offend you

 

Smart reply!

 

My only problem with this is there's a huge difference between banning and deleting a member. Banning prevents them from posting any more. Deleting destroys the posts and threads they have contributed to the community.

Deletion for the sake of the community is laughable. The only reasons for it is 1) you can't afford the disk space 2) an administrator who hasn't fully thought through his decision or 3) an administrator's emotions getting the better of him.

 

I agree with part of your comment. It is a shame that some good info is deleted in the process of banning. IMO, in the majority of cases deletion of posts have been very important to remove for the sake of the community. You simply cannot let stand the abusive, divisive comments made by banned individuals.

I do not have banning power, BTW. That is up to the Admins.


Clover