Just decided to start new thread about cooper and cooper s performance. I was wondering same myself. "Would Cooper be enough", that said I used to race both motorcycles at tracks, nothing too serious, however, I wasn't all that bad. The most fun I had was on 600cc sportbikes that were torquey. You could ride them too their limits more easily, than a 1000cc bike. I concluded it was more fun to ride a slower bike fast, than a fast bike slow.
I feel this translates nicely to my experience test driving cooper and S model.
For normal driving even highway, the cooper would be more fun, hands down.
That's what these cars were made for shifting gears, cornering at a spirited pace, and feeling one with the car. The Cooper S, was fun no doubt, but it lost some of that connection with being involved with the car while in motion.
As mentioned before, step on the gas and go fast, little to no shifts, no downshift. Now at the track, the S would be more fun, but still the cooper will be fun in it's own class, and like some have said with a good driver, a few simple mods, it'll run fairly close to the S on windy tracks, which if the track isn't windy, then it's called drag racing, or nascar, not true racing.
I have elected to get the cooper, and I bet I could give alot of S drivers a close run for their money at the right tracks. And for everyday driving, it will be more fun, unless drag racing is your thing. Also, as an FYI, I met a guy who said he has an 07' Cooper and ran it 75-85 all the way from PA to Virginia ( 8 hours ) no problem, passed everyone, except in DC beltway, where that is average speed He said the car could run at 80 all day if he wanted it too. To top it off he still averaged 37 mpg! IF you race the car more than 40 percent of the time, then maybe better with S, if take it to track for a little fun from time to time, the cooper will be ok, you'll actually learn to be a better driver than jumping right into the S. My 2 Cents.

 

This is a great example, I feel, of how the two cars (MC and MCS) meet different sets of expectations. Minpin comes from a racing background rooted in certain driving dynamics and the Cooper meets those sets of expectations most effectively. I have other friends whose expectations are set differently based on their own motoring experience. This really gets to the crux of the MC vs MCS discussion and sums up nicely why one might purposely opt to motor in a Cooper. Without his experience the OP might have chosen differently based on a test drive, so I'd suggest those considering a Cooper take a good look at this excellent example and the lesson it contains. Good job, Minpin...a very valuable 2 cents if you ask me.

 

+1.......my Cooper runs with the best of them (I got 2 tickets a couple of years ago) and gets good mileage and I've even taken her to an autoX and she did just fine. I test drove both but my little car said "pick me" and I did. 4 years later we're still together.

 

As a retired non-professional motorcycle racer, I agree with this statement: "I concluded it was more fun to ride a slower bike fast, than a fast bike slow." Consequently, my primary racer was a 350cc two-stroke twin. Notwithstanding, I disagree with this statement: "I feel this translates nicely to my experience test driving cooper and S model." The S model is perfect.

 

Then is seems we are blessed with two models that are perfect!!

 

Yep. That's why a got an MC.

 

I would agree with this to a point...

I'm coming from a similar background racing sportbikes. I've raced the 600cc in-line 4's (Hondas), eventually moving to a 750cc Ducati twin - which is not necessarily a faster bike, just loads more torque and a top end that tapers away just before redline (kind of like comparing the feel of the R53 vs R56 ). Either way you had to work to make them both go fast when compared to the bigger superbikes.

I moved on to a Trimph triple which qualified to race in the Battle of the Twins series against Buells and some Duc's one year. A Duc 996 after that angainst a bunch of 1000cc in-line 4's in a superbike series. I don't road race any more, but I'm spending a lot of time in the dirt racing enduros on a Husqvarna TE250 4-stroke... and I've toyed with the idea of getting a Husky Supermoto, but I think I might start focusing on club racing the MINI next year.

Back on track... I would compare the Cooper to a 450 Supermoto: not gutless, but not a torque happy power monster. If you hop on a supermoto apply the wrong riding technique and generally ride it like a streetbike, it seems to be lacking somthing. You have to know how to really ride it to make it go fast. But those who do can easily match and better those in a higher power machine in the tight twisties. Just keep the RPM's up, choose the correct line and try and plan ahead getting on the gas early on corner exits and it's a fast car.

The S however is more like a Duc 750 twin. Torquey. Fast. Nimble. Fun. Doesn't take as much skill to make to just go fast... but if you apply some technique to your driving, things get really fun, really fast. More power availible on demand, thats all.

All in all, both awsome and loads of fun. You can't go wrong with a MINI.

OK, that's maybe not a fair comparison ! Two strokes a a breed of their own. I've done track/warmup days on the Duc where the supersport guys were getting dusted by guys on 250cc GP bikes! The 500's are even more-so. Those things get crazy-fast and weight nothing. I've actually really scared myself on one of those little beasts .

 

I hate to be the nay-sayer here, but reading this:

and this:

... I can't help but think that the OP is somebody trying to justify to themselves their not getting an S, and inadvertently creating division between the groups (S and non-S). That's just what we need on top of the R53/R56 debacle(s).

The analogy is flawed, by the way. A 600 is of course more nimble than a 1000, but that's not the case between the two coopers. They're basically the same car, with one having more power. A more appropriate example would be guys bolting a 600cc mill into a FZR400 frame.

msh441 nailed it with: All in all, both awsome and loads of fun. You can't go wrong with a MINI.

 

Both are great cars. I opted for the MC, however, a couple of times I thought about switching to an S. But, I love the MC, particularly the economy. I'm getting around 38 mpg in my mixed city/highway driving. My driving style as I get older tends to get more conservative so I don't know if I really need or want the extra power, but I don't know if I'd translate lack of extra power into more fun? I do, however, think the MC is alot of fun, good torque and versatile. You can take the conservative shift at 2500-3000 rpm slow route (my normal mode) or smoothly run it up way past 4000 rpm for a spirited ride. Works perfectly for me.

 

consider the torque difference in the 2 engines. The S will deliver stronger thrust on exiting any corner (track or street) and that to me is fun. Having more power on tap at the touch of the pedal can NOT diminish the fun in driving a vehicle.

 

Both are great. We've got one of each. My wife loves her Cooper and wouldn't want an ugly hole ruining the great looks of her bonnet nor would she enjoy the stiff sport suspension or loud supercharger supercharger noise. I love my modified S but also love driving her Cooper when we go on trips.

 

No, I disagree, this was not the OP's intention...this same discussion was taking place in several threads simultaneously....and will continue to take place....because motoring in a Cooper is a little complicated to explain, but very much worth explaining. I think his perspective is valuable on NAM and especially for potential MINIacs working through this important decision.

Again, I think the OP's intent was not about power comparisons, per se, which is generally where the MC and MCS discussions tend to leave off...and this is a mistake and deserves clarification. It is more about a style of driving, a method of using available power, and a level of engagement that this creates. It is a subtle, yet extremely meaningful, point that frequently gets glossed over and overlooked.

I'm 100% with you on this, but we always risk sweeping the differences between the two cars under the carpet by saying "they're both fun." Even though that is true, the gorilla in the closet is that everybody knows the MCS has more hp...but that does not necessarily match up with someone's motoring preferences or exactly how they will have fun/motoring satisfaction in a Cooper. Every now and again, somebody comes along that can atriculate "why," and put some substance to exactly how they are both fun. This is the way this thread should be interpreted, imo.

I've had two Coopers and immediately recognized the basic principles articulated by the OP. That is what has always worked for me as well...I appreciate when someone can give voice to the subtleties of Cooper motoring.

 

No arguement. All MINIs are great. I currently have a Cooper CVT (likely the lowest level of perf. involvement in the MINI food chain) and its still a blast to drive.

Its all about feel. What is the driver's perception of "are we having fun motoring" ? I used to have a 77 BUG conv't. It could not get out of its own way. You had to drive it to the max just to keep up w/ traffic. Still loved it.

I don't think you can articulate the differences. You will drive them based on their capabilities. If I pushed my other car like I push the MINI, I would be dead or in jail. However, that does not mean I don't love driving it.

BOTTOM LINE to me...MINIS--any MINI is about as much performance as one needs on the street. It truly is one of those cars that feels like its going like crazy no matter what the speedo says.

 

I agree it is difficult. And yet, potential owners are asking this very question and it is a good one....even moreso as the new R56 configuration changes the variables up a bit in a way that matters. I think now and again, it's fair to expect that those of us who drive them every day step up and try to provide a response with the understanding that it's not a matter of which is better or worse (not possible...both are awesome!) but which might be a better fit or more attractive to the driver. In fact, sometimes I think the question is just that...less about the car, more about the driver.

 

I want to know who told you all that MCS drivers don't down shift to pass? I have been reading this a lot lately. I know for me this is just not true.

 

No one...the discussion has typically gone that MC owners almost have to downshift whereas MCS owners generally have enough torque available proceed w/o downshifting if they so choose. Perhaps R56 has changed this up a bit, but that's been the normal discussion from what I can tell.

 

AS mentioned my point is to emphasize the feeling one gets while driving a car, the lesser powered mini generates more interaction with car and driver in addition to the handling component that all mini's provide. The same issue was always argued in racing bikes, some felt power was everything, other's felt not so. Bottom line, if power and handling is all you want, get a corvette, mazda RX-8, etc... on straighter tracks these will blow the doors off a mini S, again, mini is about feel and working gears. A formula 1 driver, can't recall name, was asked about driving karts for offseason practice, he said karting is more fun than racing an F1. Again, it's the feeling you get while driving that creates the most satisfaction. I guess for some it's step on the peddle and go fast with no work involved, but again, for me the mini is not about speed, much better choices if that is the primary reason for getting one. If all I wanted was power, I'd be in a total other car market. Happy motoring

 

The question I keep reading on NAM is "Which MINI is better?". It is the question that is flawed. It should be "Which MINI is better for me?".
The inquirer generally means no harm, they are just seeking opinions to assist them in this important decision. Hopefully, somewhere in the din of responses the future MINI owner finds a description that resonates with their ideals. Whether it is "finesse" or "raw power" or "finessing raw power" we all have our preferences.
MINI has that covered.

 

I don't have my Mini yet but I plan on buying one when my lease on my Mazdaspeed6 is up next May. I'll tell you now that the Speed6 has loads of power and I am not sure I'll be able to make the step down in power. To tell you the truth, I am afraid to test drive the MCS because I can barely afford the MC with some options.

 

I think a lot of folks face this dilemma in the current automotive climate. Frankly, there has been debate over how much power any small car should have and I tend to agree. At some point the threshold of logic gets crossed, but there is no doubt that many folks are addicted to speed (not necessarily talking MINI owners here). IMO they are missing out. I find cars with power and little else boring.

 

Wow. not an easy decision... and you're just making it harder!

I've been looking at the MCS soley, but I don't think I'd get ~$10k more fun out of it over the MC. I love driving my '99 Civic hard. It's definately a slouch, especially in the lower RPMs, but none-the-less I still grin ear to ear working it through corners.

On the flip side, if we're talking about owning for 4 years and then selling, the S doesn't cost *that* much more. That has always been my reasoning for the S. The S would only cost more in fines and the potential accident. Never been involed in one yet (crosses fingers).

 

What if you really want webspokes and like the look of the larger spoiler? what if you really dislike the look of the black side markers?

For me, it really came down to looks. I like the front end of the S more, i like the spoiler more. I liked that i could get what i consider to be good looking wheels without having to trouble myself to wait for the original tires to go bad before i started shopping for aftermarket wheels.
Its funny, as i write this it makes me feel that much more superficial. oh well, i guess i admit it.

 

I dunno where you are getting your pricing but the base MCS is only $3150 more than the base MC plus there are things standard to the MCS that you must pay an add for on the MC. Now I know that you can easily price the MCS up to $28K but to say that there is a $10K price difference between the 2 if equally equipped is stretching it a bit

 

Absolutely...the MCS is an insane value!!! If I wanted to motor in an MCS I would not let thet the extra 3-4K (or whatever) hold me back, especially given the upgrades that come standard!!

 

At altitude, say motoring up I-70 in Colorado approaching the Eisenhower Tunnel at over 10,000 feet, the turbo is something to Love!