Good point...lots of subtleties, combined, makes the car so simililar yet so different. It's fun to shake things up now and again.

 

Well ,here's my 2 cents. I have an 07 cooper that I was happy with. great milage, etc. Then, here in nj it got warm. I put on the ac, my 240lb pal hopped in and it became SLOW as a a dog. So slow, that in heavy traffic in the same afternoon jaunt we almost got hit twice pulling into traffic. NO PICKUP. That was it. I went to my dealer- Prestige- they did a search, the same cooper - but an S model had just been produced in Oxford. This coming tuesday it will be mine. Trading in my cooper plus some green for the s model. I will keep you posted.

 

bottom line--power to weight ratio. I hope the s has the ejector seat option.

congrats on the S...

 

Thats unusual to say the least. Yesterday I had the opportunity to give a ride to two stocky friends (+200#each) and myself (180#) in my MCa. I gave them the usual accelleration and speed demo. They and I were impressed with the abilities of the car under those load conditions. Nothing slow about this baby. Plenty of pickup. +a/c running.

 

yes, sounds like something is wrong with that MC ... I usually have heavy loads in it, even with A/C on and its fine.

 

Sorry guys but even running the A/C on high can bog down an MCS a bit so to say it has no effect on an MC, meh I don't see how that could be so

 

i had the same experience with my old MC. that thing would bog down like crazy with the AC on, especially with people in it. freeway merging was scary to say the least. thats one of the many reasons i moved to the MCS. needless to say the AC bog down problems are a thing of the past.

 

I dont think that anyone suggested that A/c had no effect on performance of MC or MCs , but it still left me with plenty of power to do some spirited driving, even with that load..

 

thats kinda the metaphore I was going with.. until once I drove them more I discovered that neither car is actually fast.. therefor pushing a cooper is far less enjoyable than pushing a cooper s.. if that makes sense..

 

I think the throttle response of the cooper is what makes the difference and not the power. I have a R50 cooper and love it but I will probably be trading up to a R56 S. When I get that I will not be looking for more power in my mods but more throttle response. The R56 S has a ton better response than the old S but not as much as my cooper, so its going to need some help before I make it into the car that i want and is right for me, since thats what matters

 

Well if its throttle response you like , not power, try the 07 MCauto especially with the Sport Button. It will surprise you.

 

+1 only I will be more focused on suspension if the r56 has as much power as claimed

 

my personal take on it is like what many others have said but then a little different. First, I agree that both cars are great. No matter what you go with. Im currently a Cooper drive myself and love the car. She is a blast and a half to throw around corners and enjoy her and I do agree, if you drive her in the twisties the right way, chances are, there are plenty of cars to beat. From there on, great gas milage for her is a plus.

Having said that, I feel that sometimes, the power im looking for is just not there. It could be that im on the highway and need to merge or trying to get onto the highway from a ramp. I feel like that thrust is just not there for me. So personaly, I feel like the S would offer me these additional powers that I miss.

so with all that being said, the Cooper and the Cooper S can be very much the same machine while being different beasts. They both just depend on your life style and needs. For example, for my sister, going with a Cooper S would make zero difference for her and the Cooper would just be enough because she is such a casual driver. Why not save some cash, get better gas milage and still have one hell of a car. I know for me, my R56 will be a Cooper S.

 

What exactly are you trying to say here? Other car makers use the same fundamental chasis with different drivetrains for differnet levels of performance (and price). This is no different. Assuming that price is not an issue, why buy a MC over a MCS? Everything is relative. Drive faster? Do you think ppl driving in LMP1 at Le Mans are not driving just as hard as say those drivers in GT2?

 

Obviously you missed the point. On normal public driving roads, not race tracks by working more via shifting etc... I got more satisfaction driving the cooper vs S, in order for me to get the same level of satisfaction on normal roads driving the S, I would be carelessly taking into consideration of other people on the road. It's meant to be driven faster, speed is not what brought the satisfaction, driver feel and interaction with the car. Hence why I said a 600cc sportbike is more fun than 1000cc on tracks, more involement to get the speed. S you just step on the gas, if you are pushing an S on normal roads, you are being careless of other people on the road.

 

So if you go out & push the gears in your MC on a public road it's OK but if I do it in my MCS I am endangering the public What you say makes absolutely no sense to me. The MCS is not some 0-60 in 4 sec drag racing monster. I assure you I can also have tons of fun winding my way through the gears without being a menace to society.

 

I just traded in my Honda Element for a MCSca, Now I have a turbo and a S/C version. For myself, there was no discussion on the MC or the MCca
I've always believed that power can be your friend most of the time.

PS the turbo gets around 34 MPG with moderate aggression.

Carl

 

I drove a Porsche 356 for many years as my daily driver and it was 90hp

the thing wound out like a champ.

I would be all over the turbo model if it had a spare tire

 

Oh, this makes perfect sense to me! One can push a Cooper and have a pretty good time doing so and still be well within public road norms for the most part. Why? Less power available. You wind it up a bit...and accelleration is quick but still fairly normal. Do the same thing in an MCS and things happen quite differently. There is just more power available so accelleration is much more direct with an MCS. Bottom line...the MC is more benign and can be played with a good bit w/o getting into much trouble. Do the same thing, same level, in an MCS...whole different thing. I mean, this is why folks get an MCS...it's faster!! The point is that with the lower-lowered MC you can actually use the available power more readily on public roads...you can use MCS power, too, but not most of it....unless one may be on an on-ramp or something.

 

Oh you can use the available power of a S just as easily. I think you mean that you can use all the available power of an MC easier than an S.

 

So you are trying to tell me that the normal shift speeds on the MC are different than on the MCS? I find that hard to believe & it goes against the way every other manual shift car I have ever owned has performed.

 

No...to me it's more like the MC just does not ever pull as hard or for as long as an MCS. On a real road, both can be driven sanely, of course, but if driven more aggressively, the MC requires more shifting to stay in a narrower power band where the MCS can pull much harder for much longer in any gear. So, spirited driving can demand more shifting in an MC...and for many of us that is what we find engaging/fun. I'm using more of the power I have available more of the time...the MCS, on the other hand, has massive reserves that are available if called for or pressed into service.

I hope I'm explaining this right and not confusing things.

 

Gear shifting would be done quicker on the MCS as you arrive at the need to shift faster than you do on the MC. Now you might have to downshift more on the MC to get needed power but I don't see at all how the MC is more fun. Well we can agree to disagree. If I thought the MC was more fun to drive that's what I would have bought.

 

I think the point some people are trying to make is...

You're going down a 2-lane road with a 50mph speed limit. The car in front of you is going 45mph. A short passing zone appears. What gear are you in when you pass?

In a Cooper, it will probably be 3rd, maybe 2nd if you really are feeling playful.

I don't have enough MCS experience to say what gear you'll pass in.

 

It seems to me if I remember when I had my Coopers that they are more of a "drivers" car. You have to work more to keep it in the torque band I think the Cooper might have been more fun when I was in the zone with the S you can be "less alert" and still have the power and torque.