R56 My 2 cents on Cooper vs Cooper S
6th Gear
Joined: Jul 2002
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From: Burlington, VT
hint: The 911 Turbo is more powerful and faster than the GT3RS.
2nd Gear
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 137
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From: Sacramento, CA
They are definitely both awesome cars. For anyone out there looking, drive them both and see what fits you.
6th Gear
Joined: Jan 2003
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4th Gear
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 396
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From: Germany
I really have a hard time buying this "involvement" concept. When the engine fires on the Carrera, I am involved.
Same applies to my MCS. When the engine fires... I am involved.
When I romp it merging onto Autobahn 6 every morning
, I'm really involved.
Neutral
Joined: Mar 2007
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Actually, I think it is really the opposite. The MCS may have the raw power, but because of that, you can really get yourself in trouble if you really stand on it. This (nor the MC) are my wife's Camry....you have to pay attention to what you are doing in a MINI. I just think the MCS has the potential for a bad driver to end up in an even worse situation because there is more power there. Another car like that is the MazdaSpeed3. The regular old 3 is nimble, but try out the Speed 3 sometime. This thing will kill you.
6th Gear
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 15,478
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TT might be quicker straight line but PAG backs the GT3RSR in racing.
And I hear ya ... 100%If I follow your logic your saying don't buy a M3, or even 335I but the lowest entry level 3 series ... Makes no sense to me if you can afford it.
Last edited by chows4us; Jun 21, 2007 at 03:23 PM.
6th Gear
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3rd Gear
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 258
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From: New Jersey
hey guys...i thought i'd pipe up here. i had an 04 cooper for 3 years and just bought an 07 turbo s. i gota say the difference in power is awesome. so either i had a really dead cooper or now have a freaky cooper s. i do have to agree on the fact that if you don't know how to drive you could really get yourself into a bad situation...the torque steer coupled with a bumpy road could be a real killer. but in my opinion the s is a whole lot of fun to drive...and really easy to get a ticket with......
just my 2 cents
bob
just my 2 cents
bob
6th Gear
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 2,021
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From: Burlington, VT
None of the Cooper backers are saying that the MCS (either generation) isn't faster than a Cooper.
We are simply trying to say that for some of us, trying to wring speed out of a slower car is a fun challenge.
In the previous gen, MINI let us get a Cooper with the same brakes and suspension as the MCS, which was awesome. Basically, the only thing we were missing out on by getting the Cooper instead of the MCS was some horsepower.
With the new generation of cars, that doesn't seem to be possible any more, which is dissapointing. At least by bench racing with the specs. I'd have to get behind the wheel of the new cars to figure out if it really is an issue or not.
The Cooper performance fans get grumpy when people try to tell use we made a mistake / are wrong / are crazy. You can disagree with us, that's fine. But try to understand that some of us think we made the right choice for us. And we want to let other people know that the Cooper has great potential if you are one of the folks who want to try to make a slow car go fast.
We are simply trying to say that for some of us, trying to wring speed out of a slower car is a fun challenge.
In the previous gen, MINI let us get a Cooper with the same brakes and suspension as the MCS, which was awesome. Basically, the only thing we were missing out on by getting the Cooper instead of the MCS was some horsepower.
With the new generation of cars, that doesn't seem to be possible any more, which is dissapointing. At least by bench racing with the specs. I'd have to get behind the wheel of the new cars to figure out if it really is an issue or not.
The Cooper performance fans get grumpy when people try to tell use we made a mistake / are wrong / are crazy. You can disagree with us, that's fine. But try to understand that some of us think we made the right choice for us. And we want to let other people know that the Cooper has great potential if you are one of the folks who want to try to make a slow car go fast.
3rd Gear
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 258
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From: New Jersey
i understand....i wouldn't say anyone is wrong or crazy 
)
i drive hard and fast all the time ...and with my cooper i had to be fully on it all the time. with the s i could hurt myself being on it all the time.
everyone likes something different....the raw powers to me is fun. funny cause when i went to mertle beach for bike week i test drove a boss hoss ( ride a lowered yamaha royal star td) and i felt the same way about the boss hoss. i like that throw you in the back seat feeling that one of you guys mentioned in an earlier post
cool beans...have fun
bob
)i drive hard and fast all the time ...and with my cooper i had to be fully on it all the time. with the s i could hurt myself being on it all the time.
everyone likes something different....the raw powers to me is fun. funny cause when i went to mertle beach for bike week i test drove a boss hoss ( ride a lowered yamaha royal star td) and i felt the same way about the boss hoss. i like that throw you in the back seat feeling that one of you guys mentioned in an earlier post
cool beans...have fun
bob
Former Vendor
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 1,472
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From: Sterling, VA
I personally didn't really consider the MC, but I have to say, it would be nice to have the fun of a MINI with an extra $3000 (the price differential between MC and MCS) in my pocket to spend on all the other stuff there is in life...
--Dan
Mach V
FastMINI.net
4th Gear
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 396
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From: Germany
We are simply trying to say that for some of us, trying to wring speed out of a slower car is a fun challenge.
For normal driving even highway, the cooper would be more fun, hands down.
6th Gear
Joined: Dec 2004
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From: Overthemountain, AL
+ a mega 1
6th Gear
Joined: Sep 2004
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From: Mililani,Hawaii
you can still have the same suspension - just get the sports suspension. your front brakes won't be quite as good but they are still as good as last years.
6th Gear
Joined: Jul 2002
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From: Burlington, VT
The swaybars are smaller in a sports suspension equipped Cooper than they are in a sports suspension equipped MCS for the 2nd gen cars.
6th Gear
Joined: Jan 2003
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6th Gear
Joined: Aug 2003
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From: PA/NJ
I've watched threads like this for years now with only passing interest. We've had an S since '03 and I've never driven a MC, so I never had anythign to add and much of it really seems based on personal opinion.
Recently, we bought a brand new MCc in addition to the '03 MCS. We got the Cooper over the S for two reasons.
First (and most importantly) was price. As optioned, our MCc Sidewalk was still over $27K. An MCSc would have been around $30K.
Second is appearance. One can argue the MC looks better than the MCS due to the bonnet differences. We were going after a specific look for the car and I'm not sure it would have worked as well with an MCSc.
Last week, we took both cars to MOT '07 and I drove both about equally. There is no doubt the MCS has more power, but I will admit the MCc can hold its own with an adjusted driving style. Basically, you have to keep the engine higher in the rev range. Hills I can comfortably climb in 4th in the MCS were better done in 3rd in the MC. When we drove up Mt Washington, we took the MCc and I spent most of the climb in 1st gear, with occasional shifts to 2nd.
That said, we would definitely like more power and to that end, a few mods are in the distant future.
Recently, we bought a brand new MCc in addition to the '03 MCS. We got the Cooper over the S for two reasons.
First (and most importantly) was price. As optioned, our MCc Sidewalk was still over $27K. An MCSc would have been around $30K.
Second is appearance. One can argue the MC looks better than the MCS due to the bonnet differences. We were going after a specific look for the car and I'm not sure it would have worked as well with an MCSc.
Last week, we took both cars to MOT '07 and I drove both about equally. There is no doubt the MCS has more power, but I will admit the MCc can hold its own with an adjusted driving style. Basically, you have to keep the engine higher in the rev range. Hills I can comfortably climb in 4th in the MCS were better done in 3rd in the MC. When we drove up Mt Washington, we took the MCc and I spent most of the climb in 1st gear, with occasional shifts to 2nd.
That said, we would definitely like more power and to that end, a few mods are in the distant future.
5th Gear
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 739
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From: Alexandria, VA - Old Town
Having driven a 2002 Cooper for five years, I agree pretty much with what you are saying. However... if you take a look at the cost of a Cooper with options I wanted... sunroof, sport suspension, 16inch wheels, spoiler, sport seats, etc, etc, I was able to run up the cost to the price of a base Cooper S that had alot of things I was paying for on the Cooper. So I bought the S this time. I do think that for a person who commutes to work alot, in heavy traffic, and was thinking of buying the Toyota Prius, that the Cooper makes a ton of sense. Add to that the obvious parking benefit and you have a winner.
So, what color will your Cooper be?
So, what color will your Cooper be?
Just decided to start new thread about cooper and cooper s performance. I was wondering same myself. "Would Cooper be enough", that said I used to race both motorcycles at tracks, nothing too serious, however, I wasn't all that bad. The most fun I had was on 600cc sportbikes that were torquey. You could ride them too their limits more easily, than a 1000cc bike. I concluded it was more fun to ride a slower bike fast, than a fast bike slow.
I feel this translates nicely to my experience test driving cooper and S model.
For normal driving even highway, the cooper would be more fun, hands down.
That's what these cars were made for shifting gears, cornering at a spirited pace, and feeling one with the car. The Cooper S, was fun no doubt, but it lost some of that connection with being involved with the car while in motion.
As mentioned before, step on the gas and go fast, little to no shifts, no downshift. Now at the track, the S would be more fun, but still the cooper will be fun in it's own class, and like some have said with a good driver, a few simple mods, it'll run fairly close to the S on windy tracks, which if the track isn't windy, then it's called drag racing, or nascar, not true racing.
I have elected to get the cooper, and I bet I could give alot of S drivers a close run for their money at the right tracks. And for everyday driving, it will be more fun, unless drag racing is your thing. Also, as an FYI, I met a guy who said he has an 07' Cooper and ran it 75-85 all the way from PA to Virginia ( 8 hours ) no problem, passed everyone, except in DC beltway, where that is average speed
He said the car could run at 80 all day if he wanted it too. To top it off he still averaged 37 mpg! IF you race the car more than 40 percent of the time, then maybe better with S, if take it to track for a little fun from time to time, the cooper will be ok, you'll actually learn to be a better driver than jumping right into the S. My 2 Cents.
I feel this translates nicely to my experience test driving cooper and S model.
For normal driving even highway, the cooper would be more fun, hands down.
That's what these cars were made for shifting gears, cornering at a spirited pace, and feeling one with the car. The Cooper S, was fun no doubt, but it lost some of that connection with being involved with the car while in motion.
As mentioned before, step on the gas and go fast, little to no shifts, no downshift. Now at the track, the S would be more fun, but still the cooper will be fun in it's own class, and like some have said with a good driver, a few simple mods, it'll run fairly close to the S on windy tracks, which if the track isn't windy, then it's called drag racing, or nascar, not true racing.
I have elected to get the cooper, and I bet I could give alot of S drivers a close run for their money at the right tracks. And for everyday driving, it will be more fun, unless drag racing is your thing. Also, as an FYI, I met a guy who said he has an 07' Cooper and ran it 75-85 all the way from PA to Virginia ( 8 hours ) no problem, passed everyone, except in DC beltway, where that is average speed
He said the car could run at 80 all day if he wanted it too. To top it off he still averaged 37 mpg! IF you race the car more than 40 percent of the time, then maybe better with S, if take it to track for a little fun from time to time, the cooper will be ok, you'll actually learn to be a better driver than jumping right into the S. My 2 Cents.
OVERDRIVE
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 5,550
Likes: 1
From: Texas
Yes, I can see this might happen but we must please keep in mind that for many.......okay some......alright, a few...of us it is more fun. Admittedly, as useful as this little tidbit of information might be, it is difficult to say that in an open forum and not get some push-back...and that seems fair. Also, remember that the OP started out offering his "2 cents" and this whole discussion should be framed in that light. By my estimation we are probably now up to 40 cents, more or less.
I did not buy this car to race. I had a $45K budget for a new car. I wanted something fun to drive with distinctive styling. The MC fits just fine. I drive pretty laid back. I do not care to drive at 9/10'ths all the time, or even part of the time. I rarely ever get the engine above 4500RPM. I never get it above 4000RPM in first gear.
I have never really cared for front wheel drive cars. Hence why I really disliked the MCS as the torque steer was intrusive enough to remind me it was front wheel drive. It also meant I had to pay more attention to driving it with the gas pedal lest the steering wheel be yanked from my hands, or the car changes lanes without any input from me. I just do not care to be that busy when I drive.
These are my personal opinions. They are right for me, but may not be right for you. Just a different perspective. I am having a blast with Romi. An MCS would have been a waste of money for me and would have ended up in the garage most of the time. Romi, on the other hand, is a car I make excuses to drive around in because of her relaxed way of getting the job done.
Yes, you can drive an MCS in that relaxed manner, but then what would the point in buying it have been?
EDIT: By the way. A test drive of the MC does not do it justice as the engine is not broken in. Now that Romi has over 1300 miles on her, I have noticed a distinct difference in how much easier she likes to rev up. She pulls better at lower RPM as well. I am sure the MCS is even more scarier once broken in.
Last edited by Skuzzy; Jun 22, 2007 at 07:45 AM.
6th Gear
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