There're lots of good threads - and posts - about the MC. Intentionally or not, this one started out with "the MC is better". "Hands down" was the phrase used, I believe. I'm not surprised where it ended up.

 

I'd say that is a little harsh... If you hop out of an MCS and into an MC and drive it as if it's the same car then yes, you will feel out of sorts.

During our trip to MOT-07, I had to hop from one car to the other a few times and each car required an adjustment in driving style due to how different the cars are. The MC requires more revs when accelerating. When merging onto the freeway, I usually stayed in 3rd right up to traffic speed before skipping 4th and going right the 5th. We drove through the outskirts of Boston - an area not exactly known for benign traffic.

In situations where you can be in 5th in the MCS and "punch-it" to make a pass, downshifting to 4th in the MC was required... sometimes 3rd.... there were a few times on hills where I simply left the car in 3rd (while paying attention to the break-in rev-limit) when I thought I might need more oomph. Keeping the engine higher in the rev-band provided extra punch when I needed it.

Of course, my normal drivers are a VW TDI (rev-limit: 4500) and a Dodge Cummins 4x4 truck (rev-limit: 3000)... so whenever I hop into either MINI, I have to make significant adjustments to my driving.

 

The initial post was worded slightly awkwardly and can easily provoke responses.

If your idea of fun is shifting a lot and running up the revs, as the initial poster does, the Cooper is every bit the equal in that regard as the MCS, if not better. Cause you have to shift more and run up the revs. In the MCS, you do not have to. Sure, you can.

Then, people start posting stuff like "you have to downshift in a Cooper just to accelerate / merge" as a negative. Same point, opposite conclusion. Neither is wrong.

I freely admit to living in an area with no traffic, so I'll stay out of the "dangerous when merging" discussion.

I do a lot of 2-lane driving in the hills, so I can comment on passing with a low powered car. Passing on a 2-lane road is as dangerous as you want to make it. If there's not enough room - don't try for the pass. You can be just as dangerous in any car. Yes, an MCS will let you pass in less distance. If that's your benchmark for safe / dangerous, then sure, the MCS is safer. But, you can be an idiot in either.

 

While not quite LA I live in Vancouver, Canada (a major canadian city) and take the highway to work daily and have never had a problem merging into traffic. If anything I have to slow down .

 

As luck would have it, I just happened to have a Yaris as a loaner car today. No rush hour commute but a bit of highway. Since the MC appears to be maybe .4 secs quicker 0 - 60, IMO, the Yaris, an auto, had to work pretty hard for me not to be run over by everyone around me, who were also blowing by my first chance they got. I have usually nothing but good things to say about Toyota but today was not fun, it was work.

This is a key point. Even the most devout "enthusiast", sometime you just want to get somewhere and having to "work the gears" simply is not fun ... but work. With the quicker car, its less work

And then again, to each their own

 

Yaris sounds like something you shouldn't get near unless you are wearing a Hawaiian shirt and rubber flip-flops.

 

nm

 

I, too, generally like Toyotas. Not a fan of the Yaris looks, though (never drove it) and the name stinks.

 

nm

 

And, just because...

At our first autocross this season, someone brought one of the three door Yaris hatchbacks. Many, many people, including myself, drove that car during the event. It was bone stock except the owner bolted a set of light wheels and sticky tires on it.

It was one of the biggest hits of the event. For the spectators and drivers. Was it fast? Not really. Was it fun? Hell yeah! It got way more smiles and comments than the 911 turbo, elise, or exige s did. I guess we're just wierd up here.

 

The Yaris has the better gas mileage. 26/35 for the corolla and 34/39 for the Yaris. This is the regular corolla for $1-3k more than the Yaris like you stated.

 

Well since this turned into a Yaris review post...

The Yaris drives fine if you don't have any expectations. I owned one for a year. The MC is more fun and has far more oomph and handling but the Yaris was definitely adequate for getting from A to B and I never felt "unsafe" in traffic. I should say that I had a hatchback and it seemed in all ways superior to the sedan (which I'm guessing you drove?).

Try $3,250 more (comparing MSRP on a manual hatchback Yaris to a manual Corolla CE) which is pretty significant when you're spending that little on a car. The Yaris gets significantly better gas mileage. Furthermore the Yaris does have a proven track record as it has been available in Europe and Japan for a number of years where it has received very high safety and maintenance ratings (and I can personally vouch for its safety after having survived a high-speed collision in one with only minor injuries).

Ergonomically the liftback was fine "for me" (at 6'5"). The center speedometer, while initially disconcerting, is actually pretty nice once you get used to it. Or so I found. Also I had slightly more visibility than in my MC and a lot more room in the back seat for passengers (I frequently took 4 passengers to lunch in it).

It's not nearly as fun as the MC. Taking a corner quickly was well, a bit disconcerting at times. Acceleration is as sluggish as you'd expect but ample for freeway driving as an LA commuter (for most of the time I had it I was on a 30 mile commute back and forth across some of the scariest freeways of LA). It doesn't look as cute as a MINI (although I did get a lot of compliments on it) and it comes with very few options (standard or to choose from). However, I think for the value-shopper it's possibly the best bang-for-the-buck deal on the market today. On every "value" metric it's great. Low maintenance (I was able to snag a 7 year, 100k warranty for only $850 -- would have been like 2.5x as much for that on a MINI), near-Prius gas mileage, surprisingly roomy for subcompact, very safe, ok enough space in the back if you put the hatch down, very distinctive look (in the hatchback) and only $11,200 base cost.

 

From Edmunds

Yaris 34 mpg / 40 mpg;
Corolla 32 mpg / 41 mpg

From the new EPA calculator

Yaris Manual 30/37
Corolla Manual 28/38

Looks like a wash to me

That was not my intention. I like Toyota and have owned many and do now. I just happened to have one today.

Yes, base, middle model, 4 door sedan. I didn't feel "unsafe", my observations on driving were:

1. The car floated over the road. I actually started to feel a bit queasy until getting used to. Then again, its a "getting used to" thing. Im used to harsh suspensions and can get seasick easy.
2. Acceleration left a lot to be desired. For my short time, ppl passed all around me and the engine was working hard (auto) to 5K or so.

To give credit, the drivetrain felt solid as all Toyotas I have owned.

Prices? From carmax ... real life prices that you can actually buy. No negotiation. In my region ... DC

Yaris http://carmax.com/dyn/search/searchr...&esx=0&zd=&m=2
Mostly priced at 14478 and $15208. One low at 12168, high at $16508. throw out the low and high and I'm guessing an average of $14843

Corolla
Mostly priced at $14678, $15098, and $16088. low $14468, high $17088 (S). I'm guessing average based on the three most popular prices by far $15288 http://carmax.com/dyn/search/searchr...&esx=0&zd=&m=2

Not even $1K difference.

This might be a regional thing but there are many, many cars listed and at under $1K average, Corolla a much better buy, IMO

If your talking trim level only average prices ...
Corolla CE $14678
Yaris 3 door avg price $14326

These are real world prices I can go and buy the car today. It might be a regional thing but carmax is usually right around or below invoice (whatever that means). If you bought toyotas, they do not build to specs. If you want something specific, you got to have a dealer find what you want and be willing to buy it from another dealer if he doesnt have it. Fortunately Carmax has, literally, hundreds of cars. I also just check a "normal" local toyota dealer and their cars in stock reflect the same thing. Yaris prices virtually the same as Corollas.

Gas mileage. See above. I dont have real world experiene but edmunds and the EPA differ

I can only relate how I felt driving and I found the A pillars, curved roof, rear seat headrests and rear view mirror constantly blocking my view. The driver side window thing was annoying because I could not see out the window at eye level.

The rear seat head rest thing ... we had the same thing in a 2003 Rav4 and ended up just taking the rear seat headrests out (no one used those seats anyway) or folded them down. On the current model they seemed to have fixed that issue.

Again, I love Toyotas and would buy another one in a heartbeat but if I had to actually buy one today, I could drive away today in a cheaper Corolla than some of the Yaris in stock and thats real life. Or I could pay maybe $1K ... with gas mileage (per Edmunds and EPA) a wash. Maybe it is a regional thing but its what I see here. Its just not for me

 

You people have far too much time on your hands.

 

I'm not sure which "corolla" you are looking at but the CE on Edmunds is listed at 28/37. 26/35 for the automatic (versus 34/39 on the Yaris automatic). That's a pretty big difference. In practice I averaged around 35mpg on my Yaris but I heard stories of people regularly getting 38+.

Edmund's True Market Value (for Southern California, with no options)
Yaris Manual Hatchback --$11,597
Corolla CE Manual -- $15,611

Difference: $4,014

Which Yaris were you pricing? Nevermind, I looked at results on CARMAX. You priced an automatic Yaris with several options. Yes, that may end up costing almost as much as a bare bones, manual Corolla. I bought my Yarisfor $250 below MSRP which was a pretty good deal a year ago but seems par for the course now. I even shopped for a Yaris 2 months ago when I got my MINI and recall thinking that I would get an even better deal.

Absolutely, you're not paying for any kind of performance with a Yaris. But as an above poster pointed out, that doesn't mean you can't have fun in one all the same. For me it was a high-value commuter car (I put 15,000 miles on it in 10 months).

And all I can say is that after nearly a year of driving a Yaris, it was a pain to get used to less visibility in an MC. Not a big pain but it was definitely noticeable. I do agree that the back headrests were annoying and even took them out for a while (but had too many passengers in the end so I put them back in). I still felt I had a better overall view.

:-)

 

But the point is I gave you real life links to actual cars, hundreds, you could buy tonight. There are no stripped Yaris here and I said it might be a regional thing but I can get a Corolla for virtually the same price. List prices mean nothing if there is nothing built stripped (at least here)

 

a great discussion MC VS MCS. MC2 wrote up a piece on 11 mod'd minis. 10 MCS, and one MC. the MC came in 6th fastest out of 11. interestign comment on the driver being one of the most significant limiting factors!

 

Problem is that Carmax is nowhere near authoritative for this purpose. For Yaris's it lists cars from exactly 4 dealers across the entire US and not a single one on the west coast. Does that mean that a Yaris is impossible to buy in California? I think not. Edmund's is actually a better source if you just want to get a regional cost for a car -- they actually poll lots of dealers and get average values whereas Carmax is just listing cars for dealers that agree to pay Carmax a fee.

And bottom line is, the Yaris that is offered to be a value is offered at $4,000 cheaper than the value Corolla. That's a huge difference when you're talking $12,000 for the whole car.

 

But my point was its does ... to me. I can walk in there right this moment with hundreds of cars in stock and buy one. These are real world cars configured for buyers. The fact you dont have a Carmax in CA ... like I said ... configured cars for the region

Not true. Those are the prices you pay. You pull up the Internet price and walk in. Show them the listing and they take you to the car in the lot. Those are real cars you can buy

Not in these real life cars ... here.

Cheapest carsL

Corolla 14438
Yaris 12168

Thats a $2300 difference, not $4K

 

One google search and on my first hit I found better deals on a Yaris in the DC area than you mentioned. I.e. the world is bigger than CarMax. Not to mention that online prices sometimes magically disappear by the time you actually get on the lot ("Oh, I'm sorry sir, that one's sold but we have these nice ones over here for just slightly more").

Meanwhile we have this nice site called Edmunds that actually researches average values of cars in a region and considers all dealers not just the two that pay Carmax money. Hmm. Sounds useful.

Of course it doesn't support your conclusion which I guess, for you, makes it significantly less useful and is the only reason I can think of you that you would ignore it. Look up for the DC area if you want.

 

Edmunds is entirely inaccurate.

 

P.S.:

I.e. exactly what you want. Not an advertised value but data from actual SALES of cars to people in your region. They even go so far as to include data for pricing bias based on what color you want.

 

I HAVE used Edmonds. No dealer offered prices anything like Edmunds claims. At least, not where I live. Plus, Carmax IS a dealer. What do you mean "dealers they pay"? Finally, what's with you attitude?

 

I think this thread has been officially hi-jacked.

 

Attitude? What attitude? Does the fact that I disagree with chow and you necessitate an attitude?

I've found Edmund's to be quite reliable. It was spot on to the value, for example, that my insurance company appraised my car at after it was totalled. That doesn't mean that it will always be correct but it's a far more useful indicator of market value than "well I looked at two dealer's websites".

The data you need to get actual regional value of a car is completed sale price, not advertised value. That's what Edmund's used and that's what my insurance company used to assess my car.