Like your motorcycle concepts for the MC, spot on. I have a 748 track bike, its only 94HP, but I can smoke many liter bikes in the corners, which is really fun. My wife has 05 MC, and when I am behaving I get to drive it But really, the MC is much like a non-liter racebike, you can put in the corners hard and fast, but down the straights, you will get passed by the MCS. My only complaint with our MC is at fast freeway speeds. Here in Socal its not uncommon to see a Hyundai doing 95mph on the freeway. On long trips, the MC really must work hard to have any researve "go" at a fast freeway pace. I drive it way up on the revs already, but for sure a MCS would be a much better freeway long trip driver. Its just sort of difficult to pass quickly when you are going 85mph...Otherwise the MC is perfect, but it would still look cooler with the MCS intake hood scoop!

 

The turbo would help if you're at higher altitude also.

 

Slightly OT here, but I agree with gokartride on this point. We test drove a RAV-4 with the V-6 engine recently. The sales guy told us that it was "overpowered", and we thought, "right!" But it does have a huge power to weight ratio! Unfortunately, it doesn't have quite the nimble handling of something like the MINI. I could see a young enthusiastic driver getting into trouble with the "raw power" available in this. :impatient

 

The '07s have a 6th gear making highway cruising much more tolerable. Ya still might have to downshift to pass but that's no problem...and again part of the fun.

Jolly jokester!!

 

Gokart(very great name!) thank you for the comment about the 07 MC, I had no idea it has a 6th gear now, how cool. That might make a big difference on the freeway, good on mini!

 

true for me.. no problem passing in 6th gear even slightly uphill if I'm already doing 50 BUT it's more fun to downshift for just about any reason.

heck I slow down sometimes just so I get a chance to accelerate.

I can see where a cooper could be more fun since you get to row the gears more.

 

For the R53 it was easier, if you wanted fuel economy plus fun, the MC. The R56 is a tough choice. The gas mileage difference is negligable, price is even less of an issue now with the hike in the MC price.
I'd likely get the MCS and s**tcan the runflats at the dealer...though the non metallic oxygen blue looks sooo nice, reviewers love the MC's ride, and the rumored auto engine off while in neutral for manuals would help sway things back to the MC.

I currently have an '06 MC inspired by my briefly owned '72 Mini. If I could I'd have a '67 S, '73 Inno 1300, my MC, a '07 MCSC Sidewalk AND an '07 MCS oh and what the heck, a GP.

 

Here's this line of thinking again... Considering an MC a 600 and an MCS a liter bike is absurd. They're the same chassis! Sure a liter bike is bigger and heavier, which is why a smaller lighter bike outcorners it. That's not the case with the MC/MCS comparison.

I don't understand why one would think an MC would automatically be able to outcorner an MCS. Aside from the different shocks and swaybars, the MCS has bigger brakes too, which means later braking. Drivers being the same, you're going to get out-braked in the corner entrance, and smoked on the exit.

 

Ok, Ok, it seems we all have one thing in common a passion for the MINI. When I referenced 600 vs 1000 cc bike, that again, was looking at the sense of satisfaction from the ride, you work to go faster on the 600, the liter bike just grip it and rip it, boring for me. About 3 years ago I went to a NASCAR race experience school just to see what it was like in a CUP car. We drove up to 165mph on an oval, other than the turns, going 165 on the straights got boring once you got used to it. Speed is overrated for fun when it comes to driving, with exceptions of course. Cornering and having a car give a special feeling while driving is key for driving pleasure, at least for me, now 20 somethings guys sseek pure speed, hence chosing a sportbike, the 5.o liter mustang, etc... over other types two and four wheel vehicles which can be more fun on general roads.
With all things mentioned on my part, there has to be a root reason, for me it's the discovery of the Cooper late in 2006. I occasionally would see one pass by me during my travels, and thought what a quirky looking car, you know like a circus car Then one day I took a closer look inside, and thought Cool, a center tach, and check out that speedometer in the center of the dash, standard 5 speed, now 6, so I read up online about them, how they were first built so less wealthy people could own a car, then saw they began racing these buggers. Finally, I read the go-kart feel while driving and that was it, off to a MINI dealer for test drive. That wasall she wrote, I wanted a MINI. Now, I do like the 07's, but fear that with evolution, great things can be lost. If you look at some of the concept mini's, and the idea that most makers build vehicles for the masses not the minority, if BMW follows suite, my fear a few years down the road the MINI will no longer be a MINI in an attempt to get a larger following. People who don't have a clue what driver feel is about, working gears, and just want to stomp and go, that and have more room of course in their car so they can pack in the kids and dog while going grocery shopping. Do I like to Cooper better than the S, yes and no, it depends on situation, I love both!!! My fear is this car will now longer be a MINI 5 years from now. I discovered this car only 8 months ago, and I'll be damn if they change it into a something other than a MINI. Hope you see what I am trying to say with regards to the evolution of this car.

 

I think you missed the point, or perhaps I just was not very clear. I am commenting on how the MC is plenty fast in the corners in its base engine form. Even with a larger displacement auto, the MC still has the potential to corner faster, (driver depending.) because it handles amazing. The weakness of the MC is HP, which can be driven around in the corners. So of course, more HP in a already great handling MC, would be the MCS. Now lets talk about late braking!!!!!!!!!!

 

Ok, I guess I see what you're saying. When I see:

I think you mean faster than the MCS, because of the 600cc/1000cc bike comparisons (which don't apply to the MINI IMHO).

 

I'm talking about the old models, not the new ones. I'm not as up to date on the equipment in the new models.


Not necesarily different. Put the sports suspension plus on a Cooper and it's the same parts as the MCS.

Again, put the sports suspension plus on a Cooper and it's the same as the MCS. Go aftermarket and you ca have whatever you want.


Not on the old models. Not sure about the new ones. I have heard that there are different brake pads installed at the factory, but the rotors and calipers are the same.

Drivers being the same, an MCS not out-brake a Cooper. The Cooper is lighter and the brakes are the same (I'm pretty sure). "Smoked" on the exit? Possibly... maybe even probably. It would depend on the exit speed of the corner and where the RPMs of each car falls coming out of the turn. At the end of a long straight, sure, the MCS will always be going faster.

 

we are in the 2nd gen forum

yep, 02-06 cooper with SS+ rocked the corners - and shattered your teeth.

edited - correct.

The 07 S has the same calipers and rotors as the JCW GP does - just not painted red.

see above for descrepancies. Also doesn't really matter where the S models RPMS are. It pulls hard from 2k onward.


The biggest advantage for the S if it doesn't have the sports suspension for the corners are wider tires. Sure you can get 195/16's on the cooper but you can also get 205/17's on the S.
If you want to put full coilover suspensions and 225/50/16 R compound rubber on both models go ahead. They'll both slaughter the track. The S will still be faster if only because it has roughly 50 more ponies (and bigger rotors).

There shouldn't even be a question about which car can make it around the track faster. The S is the high performance version - it's meant to be faster. No shame in that. The cooper is a very capable car in it's own right. It'll dominate H-stock with a good driver - it's a much better platform than its h-stock competition.

I could be very happy driving an 07 Cooper stick, but I still love the raw power the S has.

 

Sorry, I forgot to check which gen sub section we were in. :D

Yup, the new MCS has larger front rotors than the new Cooper. Same size rear rotors.

Sway bars:

Cooper with base suspension: 21.5mm front, 16mm rear
Cooper with sports suspension: 23.5mm front, 18mm rear
MCS with base suspension: 22.5mm front, 17mm rear
MCS with sports suspension: 23.5mm front, 18mm rear

So, MINI did dumb down the Cooper. Booo MINI! :D

There is no question which car is faster, you're right.

Some people want to drive a fast car. Some people want to drive a car fast.

If you are in the first group, you want the MCS. If you are in the second group, either car will work.

 

I wouldn't say they dumbed down the cooper. Just beefed up the S.

I just checked MINIUSA I hadn't realized you could get the sports suspension on the cooper. That would really rock h-stock.

 

I am sooooo excited that my MCS will be quicker than Z3 2.5 I used to have.

 

I have little real-life use for the kind of power offered by an MCS...so a Cooper offers a highly engaging ride with plenty of thrills (as mentioned by the OP) better suited to my own actual needs. Others may approach the whole thing differently, but many will have similar requirements.

 

It is really all about preference, isn't it? Both cars are a blast! It is simply a matter of finding a way to have and S and a Cooper.

 

Precisely...both cars have a lot to offer. I hope potential owners find some useful insights in this discussion.

 

What I find interesting is how worldwide, Coopers sell about about as briskly as the MCS.

Here, in the U.S., I've read it's much more weighted toward the MCS.

Many people here seem to base their decision on the notion they want the more powerful model. Just because it's more powerful.

Seems suspiciously similar, dare I say, to the thought process used by those who choose an SUV over a smaller and more economical car.

 

Lol. How did I ever figure it was that big a difference. Here in Canada it's a $4,700 difference. For some reason I was remembering $32,000 for the MCS (probably what I usually configured it as) and the base base Mini Cooper for $23,500 (don't have that option this year).

Yeah, at 5k it's almost a non-issue. Just get the darn S.

 

We often wind up with rightful kudos going to the MCS...more power, great value, faster, but the purpose of the OP and this thread, imho, is to point up some of the definite advantages put forth by the Cooper, not to take away from the MCS. This perspective comes up very seldom but is extremely valid overall, capturing why many MINI owners actually prefer the Cooper. Yes, it is a great little commuter car, and yes, it gets slightly better mpg, but there is also a driving quality to the car that is significant, satisfying, and important to understand. Sadly, it's also tough to appreciate fully on a test drive or two but to me seems best appreciated over time. Owners (potential or otherwise) that this resonates with can find some validation in this. Those who prefer MCS motoring will choose a slightly different...although closely related...path, since the cars are, afterall, sibs.

 

Easy. My wife will get the MC. :D

 

It's not that absurd when you consider that most manufacturer's sport bikes right now are extremely close in dimention and weight. The 750 Duc (OK, sorry 748 ) and the 996 used baically the same frames, suspension and engine (exterior size). Not much separated the two other than displacement.

That seems to be the norm right now: 1000's that actually have the feel of 600's... just with a s#!tload more power. What really makes them feel different becomes the rotating mass of the larger engine.

Overall however, I agree with what everyone is saying (in our own individual ways): Both are fun cars. Both can be very fast. With the Cooper, you might have to work at it a little harder, but you'll build some skills and become a better driver for it.

The S, with the additional power and torque might be dumbing things down a bit for some... but I really like it, myself. More power would be even better and I'll probably go for the satage 1 JCW kit when it comes out . Can the FWD handle the power and put it to the ground? Maybe not under full throddle from a stop, but there will be times where it'll work. Throddle modulaton will be the key. But again, that's going to require some skills to handle properly. Heck, thats why I like WRC, Indy and Cart racing - those cars all have waaaaayyyyy more power than they can put to the ground at any one time. Driver's have to have the skills to know when, where and how to apply it. Hopefully I've built up some of those skills along the way through my riding/driving career (not to race rally cars - just to handle the Stage I JCW, I mean ).

 

excellent thread ... and I agree that an MC is a much more "fun" drive in a sense than the MCS ... especially the last gen versions. The current gen it seems the lines are bit more blurred.

Speaking of fun cars to bring up to speed ... from today's NY Times ...
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/06/17/wo...hp&oref=slogin

I've driven Trabants and my family had a lot of them ... haven't been inside one in a decade or so, but can still "feel" the experience.