What happens in court? In my 24 years of driving, I just received my first ticket. I was making a U-turn on a divided main street, accelerated to match the speed of the oncoming traffic, the traffic light that was literally less than 50 yards from the u-turn turned yellow, I deemed it unsafe to suddently stop (not really sure of the speed of cars behind me), went through the yellow which my wife who was beside me concurred, was stopped by an officer who was sitting on the left turn lane in the same direction. I asked him at least 3 times if he thought I ran a red. He never directly answered me but instead talked about a zero-tolerance grant that they received...about how this would have just been a warning but because of this grant, he was compelled to write something down...about how he was giving me a break by writing down a violation that did not have "points" but involved a fine...about how there was zero tolerance around "forcing a yellow". As I was looking at this citation, I could not put myself to plead "guilty" of breaking any law. I was sooooo pissed . The citation read Charge: "Obedience to Official Traffic Control Device", Nature of Offense: "(RED LIGHT)" in parenthesis. I asked our police officer neighbor if I was indeed charged for running a red light and based on the citation, he said I was...this even made me angrier because the officer could not even tell me staight in my face when I asked him if he was charging me with such. I have decided to FIGHT FOR MY RIGHTS.

So what actually happens in court? Does the judge typically believe the officer's account over yours. Also, does anyone here think I may have broken the law? Are MINIs unfairly targetted? I would really appreciate some input as I am very anxious and angry about going to court. Thanks for letting me vent .

 

If I read that correctly above... No points? Shoot, just pay it and forget it. Unless it's a $300 ticket. Would not be worth my time to go and sit on a Loooong line at the court house waiting to talk to a judge.

Does anybody know if a NO POINT ticket would effect your insurance?

 

You made a U turn on a divided highway? Does this mean you crossed a single or double yellow line to do that? If so, you may have made an illegal U turn but thats not the issue.

You went through a yellow. Yellow does not mean "speed up", it means "slow down". You should not have "accelerated to match the speed" ... You can fight it but its going to be your word against the cop. You can hope he doesn't show up but dont hold your breath ... those days are long gone. I dont understand this grant thing but it sounds like the are looking to nail ppl which makes it worse.

If its no points, just a fine, it should not have insurance rates go up. IMHO, pay the ticket and learn the lesson, whatever that lesson may be. Not worth the hassle for a non-moving violation.

BTW, if you fight for your rights and lose ... he can make you pay to the full extent of the law ... let it go.

 

Well, my experience is that you can expect to go to court at least two times.

The first time you go there, you won't talk to a judge nor will the officer be present. They'll ask you if you want to pleade guilty or innocent. Then they will set a trial date. Then you'll have to come back all over again. This next time you'll be able to either work out a plea with the prosecutor (again without speaking to a judge) or set a time for a trial. The trial may take place that day or they might make you come back all over again.

The point of the system is to make you give up and just plead guilty when they offer something a little better than the original fine and points.

I was determined to go all the way through with it for a very minor speeding infraction, but the courts system here is set up such that you have to pay court costs no matter what, and the court costs are the vast majority of the fine. So even if you win, you will still be paying about the same as if you just paid the ticket except that you will have wasted many hours of your life.

In the end, you get screwed no matter what. You are guilty until proven guilty in a court system that is designed to produce revenue for your city/county/state.

 

That's about right. I just got a ticket (first in 9 yrs) in our new mini and the deal here is pay in 20 days get 2 points. Pay at the court house on the scheduled court date and plead guilty and pay and get 4 points. Go to judge and get 4 points and if he's in a good mood maybe lower your points or fine. I even went to two lawyers... It's just a no win situation and a waste of a day to go to court.

 

I made a u-turn using a left turn pocket. This is not a highway but instead a four lane street (2 each way) divided by a grass island. U turns are legal here. Also, in case others such as one post misunderstood, I did not accelerate to beat the yellow, I accelerated as one would when making a u-turn. The officer said that the violation will not affect my insurance unless I change insurance companies or if my company does a random check on my record. From this, I am assuming there there is a risk that my premium might go up.

 

Every state is different. Ever state has different point values.

I know in my state the judge once offerred NO points but double the court costs Where do I sign the check????

 

Just a point about "points" (no pun intended). Points are used by the state to determine things like whether or not to suspend your license. Any citation, however, is recorded on your record and your insurance company can find it, whether there are 0 points or 100 points attached to it. The insurance company MAY OR MAY NOT "charge" you for the ticket depending on whether you have had other citations, the type of citation (speeding, red light, etc) and how long you have been insured with them. Many companies allow you one "free" ticket every three years, as long as it's for a minor offence. It's good to have the points dropped as far as your status with the state is concerned, but it has nothing to do with your insurance.

I was an insurance agent for 15 years and I used to get this question all the time.

 

Thanks miniprof. This was very helpful/informative. It confirms what the cop was telling me.

 

i would go to court if i were you. doesnt feel right.

 

Unless you've got some kind of photographic evidence on your side, the judge will take the word of the cop without blinking. They're infallable you know!

Traffic Court in CA is very straightforward. You and the cop (if he shows up) appear before someone acting as the judge, both sides are heard, the decision is made, unless you push for a trial. If the cop doesn't show, you'll probably get the case dismissed. Unually an in-and-out deal here.

 

But doesnt that depend upon the insurance company and what is explicitly stated in the policy? For example, I know mine looks for moving violations for the last 3 years plus 4 months (strange time frame). First ticket is free, second is not. It explicitly tells you. Same on accidents. First one is free, second is not. BTW, it also explictly details the sliding scale upwards which is NOT linear but more like exponential!

 

You're very welcome. Good luck!

 

It felt really crappy for me and my wife as we were sitting in the car (as he was writing the ticket). I moved from Seattle where people actually stop at stop signs, slow down at yellows, stop for pedestrians, and such. I never broke these habits despite it being very different in Philly (people don't typically stop here at stop signs and run red lights) because I visit Cali and Seattle often and would not want to have to readjust. It becomes particularly frustrating when I see so many violations and he had to "pick on me". Not being paranoid or anything but this is what made me wonder if MINIs are just more likely to be stopped.

 

Yes, it definitely depends on your insurance company. The point I'm trying to make, however, is that the points assigned by the state have nothing to do with what your insurance company does. And, yes, it is definitely exponential. Many companies will simply drop you if you have more than 2 tickets or accidents or combinations of the two. ARGH!

 

If you want to read a VERY interesting story on fighting a red light ticket (long) read here ....

http://www.elisetalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=25002

NO SPEEDING involved here, just a red light

This is just another reason why I don't think its worth fighting the ticket, especially if it is not a moving violation

 

Thanks for the link chows4us. As I said earlier, I am very unfamiliar with all these things. It is very unfortunate that fighting for what you think is right is a winless battle. Anyone out there have a more positive ending to this struggle? Anyone win their case ? p.s. I wasn't speeding either. Did not have enough road to even reach speed limit after making the u-turn...maybe 30mph on a 40mph zone. Light turned yellow at around 2-3 car lengths from stop line with cars approaching from behind me.

 

Chow, great story, but sadly all to often true, even with a great defense you still loose, man it's a hard call fight or roll.