reason I wanna run e85 is MORE POWER ofcourse. I have 2x minis so this mini can be strictly for making as much power as I can with it.
CAN SOMEONE please tell me the stock fuelpump size , do you think a 255lph fuelpump is adequate or should i just get a 340lph to be safe ? Also i plan on running 1000cc injectors BUT will those be overkill for my power levels and setup ? I know injectors like to run at higher % duty cycles so I don't wanna run them at too low of a % and run into inaccurate fueling possibly. I will list my mods now because it will tie into my next question about ability to tune and my cars setup.
2004 6psd...
lightweight flywheel and stage 2x clutch
snow stage 2.5 meth kit( on #1 nozzle , i have more sizes)
Tpr2 head with all upgraded valves n springs and ns1 cam
sprintex sc on 60mm pulley , 2% crank , 5% alternator pulley and it makes 20psi
2006 facelift ecu
550cc bosche injectors
421 catless headers & nvida exhaust
65mm throttlebody and 3in intake and velocity stack
Alta oversized intercooler
nology hotwires plugwires and stepcolder ngkR plugs
ported ic horns and ported sneedspeed Manifold
lower temp thermostat and aluminum radiator

I DO have an aem wideband afg and it is the wider sweep one that reads 8-20 and has the selectable fuels and I also have torque plus on a tablet and boostgauge so I'm able to monitor my engine pretty well.
I would REALLY like IF it CAN be remotely tuned and run on my current ecu.. or do i NEED to go aftermarket ecu and run an ethanol sensor and onspot tuning ? I plan on keeping the car strictly on summer blend e85 so I don't have to worry about ever running out of gas or not having access to the same blend e85 , the car is only used in summer and will be only filled from the same gas Station the same time of year.
do you think the gains I would get switching to e85 would justify an aftermarket ecu and retune ? Because that's ALOT of money and as nice is and much as id like an aftermarket ecu , theres NO local tuning available for that so thats the big reason id like to continue running the facelift ecu. My tuning is done remotely via mpps by adriancl. So im willing to bet adriancl can dial in the e85 because he can remotely tune my car via internet and in realtime watch the data while im driving because thats how weve tuned in my methanol..
what do you guys think ? On my current setup , if I am able to go e85 and just use bigger injectors and fuelpump , what kinda gains do you think could be had ? Imo if I can get 20whp from the switch the easy route , I'm gonna be doing it asap.. buuuuuuuut if I gotta go aftermarket ecu , idk..
Let me know what you guys think and your opinions. And anybody who's switched to e85 , whats your opinion on the 93oct v e85 ???

 

Just remember e85 is a less power dense fuel than petrol is, that’s why you need the larger injectors to get same power on e85 vs petrol/race gas.


the benefit of e85 is that it’s effective octane rating makes it resistant to detonation as if it were race gas, thus you can turn up the boost and run boost levels that wouldn’t be possible on pump gas.


if you can run your existing set up on pump gas, than you would need to be able to turn up th3 boost even further to take advantage of e85…with a turbos engine it’s not a problem to adjust boost levels or get a bigger turbo… but a positive displacement supercharger to me doesn’t seem to offer the same adjustability IMHO.

 

Yea but the octane rating alone and being able to run much higher timing is where the power gains are had.. sure you can crank up boost or in our case we can crank up timing. I'm already running a pretty high boost so I'm willing to bet my timing table under those larger boost numbers , I bet the timing has LOTS of room for advancement with e85..
e85 also has a much much better cylinder cooling effect as the fuel atomizes befor its combusted..
soooooo 255lph or 340lph fuel pump ????? Also should I run 800cc or 10000cc injectors ? Cmon I know you guys are on e85 so let me know your setup plz...

 

looks like your in the right parking lot judging by all the tire marks hahahaha

 

Moving from 93oct to E85 on my 300ZX was tremendously beneficial. Yes, it allowed me to run more boost, but i saw gains of 50hp at 3500RPM from timing improvements alone.

The good news is in Wisconsin E85 blends tend to be very consistent, regardless of brand or location. If you make the complete switch to E85 and don't intend to run 93, a true flex fuel setup isn't required. You will still want a content sensor to verify at each fillup. I built a custom setup for around 1/3 the price of an off the shelf option. Let me know if you're lookin for something fun and homebrew.

I'm also casually curious about E85 on the R53 platform. I'm unsure if the OEM fuel pump will support E85 on typical JCW mods.

 

Stoichiometric ratio for E85 is 9.8:1 compared to 14.7:1 for gasoline.

With stock hp output the fuel system will be required to deliver around 50% more fuel. The fuel pump, fuel line, filtering, injectors all need to be sized appropriately.

With additional engine mods which raise output above the stock hp then this requires even more fuel.

Hardware mods for running E85 are a waste if there is no corresponding tune done to allow the engine controller to properly fuel the engine.

I am not familiar with Adriancl. I have to wonder how a suitable tune can be provided remotely with your of engine mods. But of course if you believe Adriancl can deliver a suitable tune then you can use the remote tune method.

 

I ran the DW65v (265 lph) and 850 injectors for E85. Make sure the tune is safe - E85 and knock detection don't always get along. We tuned the car on 100 race gas using both EGTs & knock detection, then converted to E85. E85 required about 35% more fuel.

I don't run E85 anymore (converted back to 93) for 2 reasons
1) E85 turned every piece of plastic it touched hard and brittle. For example I didn't replace the fuel filter, I would replace the entire basket containing the fuel filter. I also ended up replacing the cross tank hoses and fuel pump basket after a couple years.
2) E85 pump gas is all over the place from E70 to E95 - Get a ethanol content measuring tool so you know what you're dealing with. Or install a flex fuel sensor with tune.

Alan

 

Thanks sofar for the input and info guys...
I'm thinking with my mods and psi I'd be better off and safer going 340lph fuelpump and 1000cc Injectors..
i will also get a new fuelpump housing and yank the pump out and put in the highflow one and better feedlines. Then I will just give away the new stock pump.
I guess I need to start talking with my tuner because he should be back now..

 

My aem gauge is installed and ebay one Going in my other mini and I also ordered this fuelpump too.. iiiiiiiiif adriancl CANT tune for e85 I still will be installing this pump for when I can find someone or somewhere to tune the e85 for me.. I also wanna go with bosche 1000cc injectors, ones like my 550s but larger flow ones obviously but same design and everything.

 

I make 45 more at the wheels but I have expensive bits link g4 etc. Wouldn't do it on the stocker. If your looking for the big jump maybe its worth it maybe not. I also have a complex fuel system and a Desiel tank from a r56 to get around saddle issues on left handers. You will starve the pump quick under 1/2-1/4 on long hard left handers it sucks the basket dry that fast and with it pushing to the other side the venturi cant keep up. Also I have fried so many dw65s Subbie guys do too. I run a dw400. Once you get close to 300whp fuel is a issue most who have claimed to try e85 likely havent encountered. So be aware. DW will replace the pumps fwiw but its still a hassle. All of my lines are ptfe -8 return is -6 . Either Surge tank in the boot or a r56 Desiel single side.

 

I was reading about people swapping to r56 style fuelbaskets and doing something else while there... do I remember that correctly??
I'm not looking for massive power gains but I'd definitely like to pickup a few more hp exp with e85 being so readily available by me..
Im gonna look into the r56 diesel pump your talking about... sounds very interesting
thx for the info and input...

 

The r56 has a higher in tank reg. I am using the r56 Disel tank itself as its not a saddle. Will run into lots of noise garbage and those that claim they have but reversed it. Normally all internet bench BS and BENCH rascing not actual skill or knowledge. Look to those that have done it still doing it making power while doing not those who say they did that took it off because of something that they failed at. You know I am running it. Not on stock ecu making guarnteed more power than 99.999% of people here etc. Not bragging but its not noise from me. I guarantee I am the highest HP longest running Supercharged setup on this forum other than Shane Kimballs old build. Likely higher HP turbos I am sure. But honestly if not willing to commit to the parts the ecu flex fuel return setup etc its prob not worth your time. Its not something you can do without doing it right safely.

Just do your research. Mostly not on this forum. IF you want to do it step one is accepting the correct way is the link and not band aiding the stocker. But again if your not chasing a number prob not your thing. The increased torque is bananas. The left hand turn issue is you will suck the stock basket dry in less than a few seconds on the throttle with e85. So my work around was a non saddle tank. on Petrol/gas this isnt a issue. On e85 with 1200cc injectors in 2nd-3rd I will drain that basket and G force at low tank level will prevent the stock siphon return setup from supplying it back fast enough. Lean go boom pop bang Hi Rodney.

And again the only way the dw65 can flow enough is with a boost a pump driving it at 18v and they dont last long like that. Again try to avoid bench racing in theory it should work or I did the math it flows enough to real world people that have done it. The dw400 is the bare min at least at my power level. Maybe at 240-250whp the dw65 could hang.

You prob should dyno your car to figure out your needs because its all variable based on power your at trying to sustain and also make more off. Obv the requirements vary on power levels. But if you think your close or at 300whp then your going to be using most of the stuff I am to keep it alive SAFELY.

 

im not looking for ballz to the wallz power , just the increase I could get from the switch..
I haven't heard from adriancl regarding the e85 tuning so I don't know if he can or is willing to do it unfortunately.
do you know of any mini tuners than tune on the facelift ecu ? there was a shop in Chicago but my buddy and I have tried numerous times to contact them with no luck.
I'm at the point ille pay for the onspot custom tuning so long as it's not something ridiculous..lol like the local dyno wants , 125$ A PULL on the dyno..lolol that's insane , I could see an hour time at that price or even 30min but 1x ? Yea , no thx... then I asked why they charge such outrageous amounts and I was told " to keep the dyno open for our in-house cars that customers have paid us to build ".. so I can only imagine how badly their raping them for the builds if they don't even need to rent out dyno time to pay it off..
anyways Im ranting...
Going aftermarket ecu id love to do but that couldnt happen this season in time and id really just like to keep the facelift ecu and have it tuned if possible. I just couldn't afford an aftermarket ecu , tuning and have it all done in time and I really wanna enjoy this car finally.

 

Then it’s not worth the investment unless you finally go link. You can’t do a flex setup on stock and you don’t want the hassle of measuring the fuel every fill up to make sure it’s exactly the % when tuned. It would be fixed point reference at best. Your call your investment long term. Stand alone cokes with host of other benefits logging safety setups all sorts. But it’s not worth doing m stock dme with any sort of investment which you clearly have so why mess that up. But until you get around standalone you will be sort of stuck. Setting up the system with a link and tuning would prob be 2-2500 all in but you can’t go in thinking this is only for e85.

 

what about piggybacking with a unichip ??? though i cant imagine that doing anything more than mpps tuning but I don't know for sure..

 

You need to run a Flex fuel sensor so the computer can tell what % of ethanol is in the tank and blend two tables together one gas one e85 and it does fancy maths to blend them together. In other countries e85 is mandated by law to be 85% which is how some people use the stock dme because the fuel is a known value every time. In the states as we do at sucking at about everything. E85 is 53-85% so it varies widely and you need a flex sensor setup. Otherwise even if you measure everytime it would need to be tuned at that % value and if it changed even by 2-3% the tune would be wildly off and at best just run like **** and but likely would just break stuff. But again a standalone offers more benefits than just e85. You have to want all that stuff. Yes its expensive yes its not fancy or shiny or adds horsepower. So I know some people have a hard time rationalizing a purchase if it doesn't *** power or brakes etc. But again it offers so much more and again for you e85 but most important Supreme Victory combo breaking ultra mega combo logging and the ability for flawless victories Forward down Forward High punch spin ripping features. It is clearly the next level for you especially in protecting your investment. Hell I run a 3 port MAc Valve to digitally control my bypass for better traction down low. All sorts of stuff mate.

As far as e85 its not about the maxium power you will gain and you will gain that. But its all the torque you get under that HP curve that you just created. Imagine 40 more ftlbs between 2500-4200rpm and the saefty features protecting what you have in it. And if worse comes to worse you have DATA to tell you what went wrong etc. You like to tinker thats great. But the final frontier is the standalone and things that come with that maybe injectors. Can Lambda which is superior to analog wide band like you have now. ITs just better hgh end stuff all around and its pricy but so is all the other stuff you like to do like part swapping.

But sadly unless you move to a country where e85 is actually 85% all the time everywhere the stock DME is just not a good option and again at best a pain in the *** to deal with. Plus the ecu can be moved into whatever down the line. I would give you my tune file to use as a basemap but that would require you to purchase everything I have to make it work decent and that would be expensive. But its not rocket science. The Link g4+ comes with a stock map to get you started. Dont let lack of knowledge in the ecu sector determine if you upgrade or not. Can always learn and even if the car had a blank tune file you can get it done to perfection for around 500 bucks in person or remote meaning like what Natase does or most tuners these days will remote in while your on the Dyno and they are in Timbucktoo doing the work via the web remotely.

That being said. Your not after huge numbers and neither was/am I. But I guarantee you feel the change e85 makes even at 40-50% you will never go back. Talking 10-12 degrees more timing in sections of map its HUGE gains. Just like I also think you would be gob smacked if you tore your block down and rebuilt with rods and pistons. You would notice for sure. Expensive I guess 2-3k but peace of mind and host of other good stuff. Throttle response power etc.

Not going to even debate or validate statements about thigs are generally the same in Wisconsin. They are not. From Kwik Trip to Caseys to Super American all vary widely or can and again its your investment. Do you want to spend time checking fuel all the time hoping the trims might handle any change and again YOUR LARGE INVESTMENT UP TILL NOW!!! OR do you want to pump and dump like we all do and let the ecu figure it out while you drive away. Want to go on road trip dump in 91 for lower power but better mileage. Want some fun time track etc dump in the highest e85 you know of in your area and go for it. Issue is mistakes happen and pump level have had it happen **** gets mixed wrong etc. Winter blend e85 is 65% and gets mixed all the time when the summer blend etc on and on scenarios. So if your gonna do it proper do it proper or always have doubts about again your large investment. Are we talking about some puny lame 250whp cooper with 5k under the hood or something like mine with 25 grand under the hood or whatever you have invested. Just because it can be done doesn't mean it should. I would hope if your car is what you claim it is that you have lots of hours into it and funds and would want to make sure you dont risk that to save a few thousand bucks. At that point its just not worth doing until you can do it like I am saying. Because again you have so much invested into it. When its a basic car pulley even bvh sure its not lots of money or time invested. This make sense? Maybe I am just a autistic fool. But I would find it hard that anyone with any sort of time or finical investment wouldn't half **** it. It is 100% if you don't want to spend the money on it. ITs expensive. That just means you dont do it. Not find a cheaper way.

Plus at some point you will turbo it and you will be so far ahead at this point with the ecu and everything you did to make that work. Wont ever hit 400whp on any supercharger other than a Rotrex or I guess maybe a Crap fest RMW stroker with a tvs etc. So again to recap. Listen to r53 e85 Yoda and do or do not, there is no try. If you don't want to spend that sort of money just shelve the idea till you want to. Don't slip to the dark side and destroy what you worked hard to achieve because someone who is not gonna bank roll the disaster talk you into it.

 

This was stock blower 15% Pulley Meth for IAT only. RMW BVH 1000cc injectors Rmw Header Milltek cat back clapped out 150,000 mile motor on e85. (Normally this would be a 240ish whp setup see mod mini setup) Pre tvs Pre fancy rebuild Pre 338whp insanity it is now. I dont post these as I dont care all they do is cause drama. I always told the person who bought her we can do a dyno pull before cash changes hands for the big dog proof she is now. But RE read the specs in first sentance again before checking pic. Anyway best bet is to get a baseline to even know where your at. Time to stop speculating keep the sheet private as I and others normally do and make a roadmap for you future. But this was a basic setup on e85 on tired motor. Oh that was stock cam too. Look at all the useable space under the curve. NOTICE THE RPM THIS RUN STOPPED AT! Also meth does wonders look at those iat. Middle of August in WI is no fun

 

I agree with some of the things you've said. But saying the only way to go is go big or go home is simply false. E85 content is generally consistent, and the 'budget friendly' way would be to tune to a specific ethanol content (~70%). Still get all the gains of E85 and a dedicated tune, but don't necessarily need a stand alone system to allow for full flex capability. I went this route and have been thrilled with the benefits. It would be silly to run E85 without an ethanol content sensor, but in this situation it would just be a double check at fill up to catch the rare instance where E85 content was lower than anticipated or the station tank was filled incorrectly.

 

I still have not heard from adriancl so it's time to pursue other tuning options now..... what about the uni chip and the free tuning program and stuff it has..I'm wondering if that'd he an option or not because I could snag this befor it's gone if it would benefit this adventure..

 

Right but your basing a tune on a fixed state of fuel and if it deviates it wont potentially adjust and to dangerous levels. I guess it depends what you have invested. Likelihood if its more invested to take more precautions. In the end I would never do it. In eau claire its all over the map let alone if I travel.

I have stressed to Adam over the last 3 or so years on the high end way to handle stuff. I still believe at his expense/investment it is go big or dont bother. Again if its a low end build sure who cares. But again the standalone route offers much much more and I guess to me at least when I have that much invested I want max protection options.

Different options opinions for different folks. You just always here silly stuff from folks that did that removed it etc and usually you want to follow those that have and still do and continue to do vs those that tried that failed etc. E85 is the final frontier on the w11 sans turbo. The torque benefits are insane.

FWIW near me is a Caseys and a Kwik Trip and a Country Side co op. Caseys is 53% KwikTrip is 70 and Co op is 89% and that all varies from truck load to load. The only thing I was stressing was that when you have so much invested into your baby why potentially homebrew or work around the stock design. Thats all. To me I wouldn't.

Again more than happy to share my file set but unless your hardware matches mine it wouldn't be plug and play. Plus at my power level driving style I get about 150-200 miles max per tank on the Corn. Thats driving like I stole it though. Casual driivng still nets 20 mpg on highway. Petrol I still get 30+
then there is the what if you get a higher percentage which means less petrol which intern means it needs to burn more will the stock ecu be able to handle that with its narrow band tables? 80 percent requires more than say 70. Anyway far too many variables for my taste I guess. Can you I do it sure I guess.

Could always build your own mega squirt. Built my first one of those in early 00's. Either way if you need help or opinions you know where I am.

 

I cant comment effectively on Piggy backs. But I know you like to try lots of different stuff. I just think by the time you try multiple things you might be at the price of the thing your trying to avoid. If your only doing it for e85 it might not be worth it. Again if you think your close to 300whp your going to have to deal with the left handers under half a tank issue. I would suggest goign to the old RMW Forums and reading. Lots of this talk there by people with lots of experience and money so you can review all this stuff there. Has nothing to do with Jan or RMW as a brand but the people that converged there where all race car drivers/setups so you can see lots of the little issues that pop up and how they handled them. There is lots of between the lines and childish crap there though as it was not moderated. Its not active really anymore but its a wealth of knowledge. So it motoring Alliance. The left hand issue is NOT A issue for lower to mid range cars its when you get near 300+ WHP that you will suck the basket dry in a instant and on left handers all the fuel is being pushed to other side and the venturi return cant pump it back over fast enough. Also again the DW65 will not be enough at your suspected fuel demand levels. I am sure 9 billion people will share their experience and say it worked and on paper it should but all it would take is emailing Deatsch works asking for Chris in R@D mentioning my name and he will tell you all about the real world of the dw65 the r53 and e85.

All this being said I am here to offer help from my experience on the w11 platform as well as all the rest of the ones I have worked on in 45 years. DAT ***