I've heard of many people dropping in 380cc injectors with basic mods and no tune. What I can't find is if anyone has dyno'd or datalogged what happens when the stock tuned ECU run's these higher volume injectors. Im thinking injectors and later, a tune are my next mods.

Unless the ECU knows that you have swapped in larger injectors,which I think our's probably cant figure out unless you tell it, then a a given pulse width sent to the injectors will be delivering more fuel then the ECU expects it to which would cause you to run rich. This might not be an issue when you are car is running in closed loop mode (just cruising). During situations like that the ECU looks at the readings it gets from the O2 sensors and trims or adds fuel (decreases/increases pulse width) based on how lean or rich you are running and what the ECU's target AFR is, that's assuming the programmers gave it enough capacity to compensate, the ECU I work with you place a limit on how much the computer can enlean or enrich based on closed loop readings.

In open loop mode (full throttle, hard driving) our ECU is probably just ignoring the 02 sensor data an looking strictly at the T-Map sensors to see how much air goes into the engine. In other words the ECU is sending injector pulses of a length suited to the stock injectors, not your newer larger ones. So, if you were stock you would be running rich. Modded... well you just don't know. That's the theory behind it anyway.

I haven't seen any actual logs of stock versus larger given the same tune, but going off of what I know I could guess what the AFR's what it would look like compared to stock injectors on a stock car.

EDIT: As gray raven points out below, if you were lean when you installed them then they are just what the doctor ordered.

I have a 17% pulley, DFIC and JCW box and exhaust. I was always getting a lean code so it was time for more fuel. I grabbed up a set of JCW injectors and that solved my lean codes.

was orig advised that w/o a tune my 380's would not work. That was not the case, and noticed significant overall improvement in drivability and power, and a little more gas consumption. I constantly check my plugs and they burn perfect, and maintain a light coffee color indicating a perfect burn, not rich, not lean.

Would have loved to document the dyno, but since they make so many different kinds of dyno set up's and as they are rather scarce in my area, I doubt it would have recorded a decent base line for our future reference.

Butt dyno says they work great and my car idles and starts so much better. I will eventually plug in a Unichip or purchase the JCW upgrade pack from MINI which includes the disk I need, then sell off the JCW airbox and injectors that come with that kit as I am already sporting those.

I realize Unichip has no tune for a 17 pulley, but given the volume of air pushing through the DFIC my boost dropped a lb or so, so it should balance itself out.

I'm already running pretty bad mpg. Im getting 23mpg with 65% city and driving what I would consider very conservative. I haven't thrown any lean codes yet but I know with the extra modifications I'm running there is no doubt the stock ECU is overwhelmed

IMO, dump the One ball and get a real exhaust......you will need that for a decent tune considering your mods anyways. And that MPG isnt totally bad considering it is winter time, and winter fuel. My MPG dropped soon as we switched to this E-10 Ethenol mix feel good green crap gas.....so much for the fuel savings by adding corn. doh.

I have had my mileage down in the teens in normal driving. Dont sweat the 23, that's what I get unmodded on a good day.

Its just sad bc I averaged 22-23 with a 330whp greddy turbo S2000...just not what I was expecting with my MINI

It's possible to do better, I have a lead foot and run on summer tires (215/45/17), that usually results in the above numbers, often less. This winter on 185/65/15 I see 25-26mpg on the highway without making undue effort. It's unfortunate, but while are superchargers offer amazing response (barring throttle lag...) they also draw a lot of power when pumping the air to boost our engines. While the new (07+) MINI uses a new engine with direct injection, the fact that people see mileage in the 30's without much difficulty should show why turboing is going to get you better mileage for a given output of power. Using waste heat is just the better way of doing it from an efficiency standpoint.

I still running Falken RT-615's (215's) and can get 30mpg on the freeway but it seems like the car sucks gas like a drunkard in the city.

Not gonna argue with that. Even the EPA agrees...

http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/2008c...f.jsp?id=20530

Man thats depressing mpg for a car this size...

I had a big response written up but firefox crashed... but there are reports of people having there mileage go up after getting a tune.

Anyway... When you tune a car there are parts of the fuel map that you can not reach. In other words there are areas where a particular speed and loading combination cannot happen in real world conditions. That said it is good practice to take those areas and fill them with plausible values. The reason for doing so is that if for some reason your car does something weird (breaks) the ECU should be able to look at the map and at least have a value to reference.

Take a look at this:



This is a fuel map off a 4L 180sx that has been superchargerd. The areas I circle represent points that were actually looked at on the dyno (or close to them) and were adjusted to some optimization point, in this case anything above 75% load he has his closed loop target AFR at 12:1. It's worth noting that in closed loop mode he only allows his ECU to apply a 1% correction, which means that if he changes something it is only going to help a little.

When you modify you car, lets say smaller pulley for more boost, you are shifting the load points your ECU will be looking at up,moving yourself outside of the circled area and into best guess territory. If you are being conservative with these values (rich) then you are of course using more fuel then you really need. That said BMW/Chrysler had far more resources to throw into optimizing this engine when they were making it then the average joe tuner does, so a best guess on there part is probably fairly decent. In any event, if you change something think about getting a tune, it's possible that it will help your fuel economy.

Incidentally the dark read areas in the circle part (or a few cells down if you were modding from stock) are were the extra flow of larger injectors is going to be needed. Outside of those areas stock size would probably still be large enough. None the less, injector size must be dictated by were the engine needs the most fuel (along with other things)/

All of this of course is based on the idea that our engines use a management scheme like the one I kinda described above. If it's different then I cant really say what effect larger injectors will have.

EDIT: Hope the Adaptronic guys appreciate the advertising...

Ive gotten 52 mpg at 60mph.... Im pretty happy about that! I still get 40mpg at 70mph and 32 at 80mph

This topic has been discussed so much that it is confuseing....and there are lots of opinions, and very few true data.
I can speak from my own experance. I have jcw380's, no tune, CAI, and a 17% reduction pulley. I added the new jcw 380, and my car ran better, and now at higher rpm pulls harder. My MPG is still 28 on the highway...no real change, but it did drop a lot on my in town driving. IMO my car runs better, and now it seems to start better, and is more fun to drive. I would strongly recommend getting 380's....tune or not.
Many people will say the car cannot use the extra fuel without the tune, etc. I can say in my experance that with the small increase to the 380's, the car does seem to adjust with the fuel trim, run great, and not have ant codes. Are the injectors a cost effective way to make more power....maybe not, but IMO it does increase driveability....and in my book that is what counts. Dino's are just a way to try to measure driveability in the lab, but I drive my car on the street, not the lab.

I would also caution you to make sure you get injectors with the correct dual-cone spray pattern. There is a lot of junk redrilled crap for sale on evil-bay that may result in motor dammage or at the very least, a poorly running motor. JCW 380's are by defination OEM. Others are around, but be careful when you select them.....DO NOT SHOP by PRICE alone. Helix seems to have some nice aftermarket injectors if $$$$ is tight, but they do need adaptor harnesses to work, and do not look stock, but have a great reputation, as do the ones sold by M7.

I just purchased a UNICHIP Zippy, mapped to my specs, let you know how it works out

well it might be depressing, but then again our engine is a Chrysler/Peugeot hybrid..
and if that isn't depressing I'm not sure what is...

]

being smoked by a stock SRT-4. Damn Im glad I didn't spend the money to buy this car new

And.....SRT 4 off the lot and 3 yrs old is worth squat while your MINI fetches a premium NADA book value.....

SO if you purchased the MINI solely to smoke MOPARs then you should not be in a MINI.....

And if you knew anything about the Brazillian Engine, roller rockers ect, you would not have any worries as to "where it was made". These are awesome little 1.6L engines.

nvm, don't care

The ECU has more than enough headroom to use the 380's. BUT, you will get the best perfromance with a custom tune, NOT a POS Unichip that is no longer made or supported.

Uni-chips, while not new, and beaing old school do still have some advantages....namely no changes to the cars computer. Sure, a few folks have had computers fried, but just unclip it, and no-one is the wiseer. On a side note, software upgrades, and Bluetooth support is still beaind added to the "Q" version if I remember right, so they are still supported. Like many tuning products, it is a nitch product, made more so by the spreading Dino-tuneing products that are avalialble. "piggybacking" is still around.

Unichip is junk.

End of story.

+1
Nothing but problems.
And poor customer service.