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Since it was a long weekend I decided to change my oil pan gasket, been putting it off for awhile. Dropped the pan, #$%$#$, all shredded up timing chain guide. Scarlet was running great!, no noise, chatter, she was just losing oil. How common is this problem where there is no indication of a guide failure? Been looking around for a procedure to replace the plastic,(whatever it's made of), guide, any help would be greatly appreciated.
Last edited by gumbedamit; Jan 15, 2018 at 07:26 AM.
Pretty sure you need to pull the crank pulley and remove the cover to access the bottom bolts of the guides. There are pictures here somewhere.
Thanks, but I don't see that there are bottom bolts, pins that the rails sit on. Looking at the diagrams, I believe I can figure it out, but I was hoping that someone would have a procedure documented or experience they could share????
Thanks, but I don't see that there are bottom bolts, pins that the rails sit on. Looking at the diagrams, I believe I can figure it out, but I was hoping that someone would have a procedure documented or experience they could share????
There are no bottom guide bolts only guides, but I would recommend replacing the crank sprocket as well as the chain when you are doing this. Also a good opportunity to do replace the leaky cam sensor and crank sensor o-rings, and cam cover gasket. I also did spark plug gaskets as well. You would be wise to get a repair manual. I'm doing this from memory as I did this repair this past summer. Also a good time to service the supercharger oil and replace the water pump.
Put car on jack stands and then into front end service mode (see modmini youtube channel). Remove passenger tire and fender liner.
Remove accessory belt, harmonic pulley, idler pulley, belt tensioner, alternator, ac compressor (unbolt and support with wooden block).
Remove cam cover and oil pump timing cover (will need replacement gasket)
Use 19mm socket (I think) to put in valves in neutral position. You can check by placing straws in the the spark plug wells after the plugs have been removed. Straws should be in a middle position and all about the same height. I am really **** I kept spinning the timing chain until the gold color links lined up with the mark on the head and the two at the bottom. I don't think this is needed. You will need a timing tool set as well to lock it in place.
Remove crank sprocket, chain, tensioner from back of the engine. Need to replace the bolt. You need to heat the new crank sprocket to about 280 degrees F (I think) before you install it on to the crank.
Reverse the above. I have a lot of pictures of the repair, but they are on my old phone.
Not sure that you need to go as far as replacing the crank sprocket and/or chain (unless of course it is (A) needed, and (B) required to remove/replace the guide rails), but in addition to removing the timing cover, you'll also need to remove the entire passenger-side engine mount to remove and replace the camshaft sensor o-ring, and to also remove the two large screw plugs on the passenger-side of the head, which allow access to the upper guide rail bolts inside.
Also while you're inside the timing case, I'd replace the two internal oil seals (upper and lower) as well as the crankshaft seal.
Mod MINI gets into that region of the engine at 9:57 of THIS video.
Last edited by AoxoMoxoA; Jan 16, 2018 at 07:25 AM.
Reason: Further clarification
Since I have the pan off, should I be able to see the bottom end of the rails?
Looking down from the top - yes, I believe you would likely be able to see enough of the guides to evaluate their condition.
But looking up from the bottom - you can certainly try, but I doubt you'd be able to see anything, as the pan area is blocked from view by the timing case bottom. There's only a narrow slot just large enough to allow broken pieces of guide rail (and broken sprocket teeth) to fall into the pan below.
Not sure that you need to go as far as replacing the crank sprocket and/or chain (unless of course it is (A) needed, and (B) required to remove/replace the guide rails), but in addition to removing the timing cover, you'll also need to remove the entire passenger-side engine mount to remove and replace the camshaft sensor o-ring, and to also remove the two large screw plugs on the passenger-side of the head, which allow access to the upper guide rail bolts inside.
Also while you're inside the timing case, I'd replace the two internal oil seals (upper and lower) as well as the crankshaft seal.
Mod MINI gets into that region of the engine at 9:57 of THIS video.
Looking down from the top - yes, I believe you would likely be able to see enough of the guides to evaluate their condition.
But looking up from the bottom - you can certainly try, but I doubt you'd be able to see anything, as the pan area is blocked from view by the timing case bottom. There's only a narrow slot just large enough to allow broken pieces of guide rail (and broken sprocket teeth) to fall into the pan below.
Yep, as you can see, there was plenty of broken rail in the oil pan. I'll take the valve cover off tomorrow. The PO had this car serviced BMW only. The CARFax report is pretty extensive for it being serviced. Oil pan gasket replaced at 74K, Timing chain tensioner/guide changed at 62K. I purchased the car at 110K, she now has 135K. Just strikes me odd that if the rail has broken off, why is it not making any noise. Could be that the Rail side has broken off and the chain on that side has nothing to really slap against. If the tensioner side rail broke off, the chain would be slapping against the metal tensioner, just a thought. I will know by tomorrow and will keep you guys informed, thanx again for the info.....
Mine didn't make noise either. Found the plastic guide pieces when I went to change the oil pan gasket. Looking at the tips of the guides from the top is difficult if not impossible. It is usually the tips that get damaged from the loose chain.
If you change the guides you should do the chain, sprocket, and tensioner. You can take my advice or not, but I've actually done the repair. Good luck.
Mine didn't make noise either. Found the plastic guide pieces when I went to change the oil pan gasket. Looking at the tips of the guides from the top is difficult if not impossible. It is usually the tips that get damaged from the loose chain.
If you change the guides you should do the chain, sprocket, and tensioner. You can take my advice or not, but I've actually done the repair. Good luck.
Base on what's in my oil pan, it's more than just the tips. I will find out one way or the other tomorrow.thanx
Courtesy of AoxoMoxoA Mod MINI gets into that region of the engine at 9:57 of THIS vid
i love this community. I’m excited to contribute and help others. Thank you.
if I understand correctly...
when I open my oil pump, I can turn the crank until the markets are in the correct position then unbolt the cam sprocket remove the chain, both sprockets, chain, and guide rails.
Then put it it all back together no problem. Do I need to use a tool to hold the cam in place?
Yes. You can get it on amazon for 50 dollars. You got to have this tool to do the job right . If you are going to replace chain an sprocket. You will need a puller to remove dampener an one to remove the lower sprocket .
There are no bottom guide bolts only guides, but I would recommend replacing the crank sprocket as well as the chain when you are doing this. Also a good opportunity to do replace the leaky cam sensor and crank sensor o-rings, and cam cover gasket. I also did spark plug gaskets as well. You would be wise to get a repair manual. I'm doing this from memory as I did this repair this past summer. Also a good time to service the supercharger oil and replace the water pump.
Put car on jack stands and then into front end service mode (see modmini youtube channel). Remove passenger tire and fender liner.
Remove accessory belt, harmonic pulley, idler pulley, belt tensioner, alternator, ac compressor (unbolt and support with wooden block).
Remove cam cover and oil pump timing cover (will need replacement gasket)
Use 19mm socket (I think) to put in valves in neutral position. You can check by placing straws in the the spark plug wells after the plugs have been removed. Straws should be in a middle position and all about the same height. I am really **** I kept spinning the timing chain until the gold color links lined up with the mark on the head and the two at the bottom. I don't think this is needed. You will need a timing tool set as well to lock it in place.
Remove crank sprocket, chain, tensioner from back of the engine. Need to replace the bolt. You need to heat the new crank sprocket to about 280 degrees F (I think) before you install it on to the crank.
Reverse the above. I have a lot of pictures of the repair, but they are on my old phone.
im literally doing this today.
can i get advice on removing the base R50 harmonic balancer. I’m taking pictures as I go and intend on subitting and thorough walkthrough seeing as it seems quite desired and lacking in useful help.
You can use a puller. But you have to be careful. You can break it pretty easy. There is a special tool you can you to remove.. https://youtu.be/I2NHXwORyZA
Sucks. I have the tool they used on video. Im in Florida. You can try using something else. May try to pm message way from way motor works. He may have another option.
When you pull the it from the crank. You have to be careful not to break the edges of the crank pulley..
