Sales are down in the U.S., but in the links I provided in previous posts world wide sales are up.

Mark

 

They aren't necessarily in trouble. If anything, in the US, they are at the same level (more or less) if not higher.

It has to do with expectations. If you build 10000 cars a year and pre-sell more than you can make - the car is perceived as a success (to the public at least). You may actually lose money in the process - but that's another story.....

Let's say you revise the car to appeal to a slighter broader base and build 16,000 a year but still sell 12,500. Was the car successful? The manufacturer can claim record sales and perhaps they made more profit per car than they did with the original, but the question remains - is the car successful?

 

Its important to note in slag's case because many of his contributions to, not necessarily this thread, but other threads like these in the past could easily be construed as trolling attempts. For instance, if he does not own a MINI, and therefore has no stake in this debate, why is he here? Since he has finally answered the question, it gives his opinion some credibility, even if he does put enough spin on his facts to make most politicians jealous.

And I agree, they should have ditched the hood scoop for something more practical, I'm just saying that I can see why they kept it.

 

I'm amazed that current ownership means diddly squat to anyone. I'm even more amazed that in other threads it's been used as a means to discredit his opinion.

....and Vic, his past ownership status is available to anyone who takes five minutes to look at some of his past posts. Hopefully by the time the Moderators wake up and see fit to approve my post for publishing, the post that I posted last night regarding how we perceive a car a "success" may finally see the light of day..........

Then again, it's been over 6 hours........

Edit: All your posts have been approved as I have seen them come in. That said 6 hours ago I was still asleep and was unable to approve it immediately. - Mark

 

Your back in "moderated" status? I thought there was discussion about opening up this site... and a return to lively but respectful debate? I know I can't get a single comment posted on motoringfile... every post I make is moderated to oblivion. It almost appears that the BMW shills have been given the game plan from corporate: The R56 is struggling... so quiet dis-content. I suggest a different approach to correct the R56 sales direction... come clean! First, publicly recognize the piston slap in the Peugeot engine... stop strong arming your customers, and fix it. Second, do a mid-series design refresh, address the areas of the R56 that has invoked so much negative passion from your base: Fish eye lights, stance, fake hood scoop, pie size speedo. Third, bring the enthusiasts back into the fold, offer a "feel" that mimics the original series. Do this BMW, and your shills can return to grassroots marketing vs. damage control.

 

^ fair enough . . . I guess the reason some of us are not convinced is that the analysis is all based on the idea that MINI sales are drastically down, but it seems that, if it exists at all, this is a US phenomenon (could be due to economy, could be due to US customers awaiting launch of Clubman 'cause we like bigger cars than the rest of the world, could be that the initial interest in a small car has peetered out in US but continues strong everywhere else where it's always been strong -- we don't know and can't tell from the data) . . . what we do know is that worldwide sales are collectively up. So again, I don't think BMW need be too worried about the self-described enthusiasts -- and if it is, it probably hopes to keep them with the factory built JCW (just like others such as you were kept in the fold with the GP)

 

The voice of reason!

 

#1
I think you are exhibiting 'selective reading comprehension'.

It takes 4-6 weeks to ship a car here. So the cars produced in late november/december 05 are added to the 06 sales. New orders were still being delivered in December 06. Again, you twisted reality to suit your story, but you are wrong. There were 12 months worth of production of R53s for sale in 2006. R56s were only available to be sold from the middle of February on.

#2:
Again a reading issue. What classic style are you referring to? There are no R56 convertibles, so the R56 outsold the R53 year on year.

#3
Another attempt at misdirection, but incorrect. See #1 above.

#4
Please provide a link to said 'not secret'. Everything I've heard is that they are maintaining the full capacity. (and they'll need it, since worldwide (and US, actually) sales are UP!)

#5
I got a discount on both of my 06s. So not unheard of at all. In fact, there were R53s still sitting on lots in May last year, because they couldn't be sold. Interesting that once you realize the numbers you are trying to use to make your argument don't work, you decide they are only 'half the story.' And the other half of your story is still wrong!

#6
Your statistical analysis skills are lacking. Picking one data point is irrelevant to the long term data, and CERTAINTLY isn't a trend. And the long term data says you are wrong.


I'm not trying to bash you, but I do feel that someone needs to at least point out where you are completey incorrect on these issues. People who are here for real information may be misled by your false statements, which have no basis in actual fact, as shown by the production numbers. Your irrational hatred of the R56 has caused you to bias your arguments in such as way as to make them inneffective.

On top of EVERYTHING else you've posted, you've also missed out on the fact that the US dollar has absolutely tanked in the last year, and so BMW/MINI are getting less actual cash for each car that they sell here in the United States. This has lead to some price creep in the vehicles in order for them to maintain profitability.

 

Your posts on this subject matter lost all credibility when you cooked the R53 production numbers:



As others in this tread have validly pointed out... the R56 is in sales decline here... one needs only look at the glut of R56 automobiles on dealers lots.

 

But slag1911 is right on one point ...the R56 isn't an R53. He's obviously very passionate about that point ...as are others.

I hate to say it, but what's done is done and there probably is no bringing back a car that more closely resembles the R53. I'm glad I got mine in time and when the time comes to replace it I'll look at the new MINIs ...and if they are even further removed from the R53 than the R56, I'll likely look elsewhere.

I'm not nearly as passionate as slag1911 on this argument, but I see his point. I'd been dreaming of a MINI since the reintroduction in 2002. Last April the time was finally right for me to buy one. Had the R56 been my only choice, I would have walked away from MINI ...its not the car I fell in love with.

I'm not bashing it in any way whatsoever ...I'm happy for all those that own and love theirs. Its just a different car than what I want.

 

Reelsmith, I remember you were very enthusiastic about your R56 order and the wait. But in all and all, you made the right choice and I can tell you are in love with your gorgeous R53.

 

Oh and thank you as well for being yet another contributor to bring balance to this debate.

 

I was very enthusiastic. Most all of the press was very positive and in pictures the car looked good. The excitement, anticipation and the new R56 Forum really got me pumped up big time.

slag1911 was there then too ...and frankly, I was pissed that he was ruining my fun. But, in the end, I agreed with him.

 

[quote=slag1911;2026190]Your posts on this subject matter lost all credibility when you cooked the R53 production numbers:
[\quote]
You're right, I missed that the GP was listed separately, which accounts for the less than 400 vehicle difference between my number and yours.
So I made that one small error, while you've made several, and I'm the one with no credibility?

That glut is not unlike the glut of R53s I saw last November-May.

Again, nice try to shift the discussion to another topic once you've been shown to be in error. Your disdain for the R56 is duly noted. I just hope that the more open minded members of this site can see past the grandstanding and realize that while it is okay to like or dislike the car, the sales figures indicate that MINI (the corporation) is not suffering from a lack of sales, regardless of how many times you try to slice and dice one data point.

Since I've corrected your errors now, and you refuse to acknowledge when you've been wrong, I'm finished posting in this thread, and adding you to my ignore list. Good luck with your 'search' for a GP.

 

I remember those days! Yeah.. I was just as strong an advocate of the R53 then as now. I'm glad to have played a small role in your decision to purchase the R53 vs. R56.

 

Hasta La vista, baby!

[QUOTE=BSUCardinalfan;2026258]

 

This thread makes me laugh. If those of you who love R56s are offended by the comments of those who are really, really dedicated to R53s, well then kindly curser your way over to the R56 forum.

Sheesh, I don't care for sports bars, but I wouldn't enter one and try to sway the patrons over to Jazz clubs.

 

I agree... joining a conversation centric to the R53 is great! I think participation and view points of others should be encouraged and open to all. But then getting hurt feelings over our obvious passion for the R53... in the R53 forum? Wowser!

 

one major reason why there seem to be more new MINIs on dealer lots, I was told by my MA of 5 years, is that the R56 is being built MUCH more efficiently than R50/53. The BMW/Poogy engine plant is now an hour away in merry olde England, instead of being built (and shipped) thousands of miles distant in Brazil, as was the case with the good old bulletproof iron-block Tritec.

Im sure there are other reasons, but MINI sorely needed a major improvement in manufacturing efficiency to help address demand, and they started with the most distant component, the engine.

 

The lower trending sales numbers... show that demand is down from the R53 era. The number of R56 on dealers lots is a result of manufacturing remaining steady.

 

Wowser, yes.

Don't get me wrong, I have nothing against R56s or their owners. Since I limit my forum time to classic minis and R53s, I haven't spent anytime in the 2nd gen. threads. I hope those threads aren't laced with R53 "mercenaries".

If and when MINI comes up with an AWD street car (not SUV), I'll jump back in the "current version" forums.

 

Or could the lower trending sales numbers be indicative of a sobering economy which may affect the attitude or ability to purchase any new car?

 

I THINK you have to have sliding windows and exposed door hinges to be a real Mini. See my long gone old 62 Cooper in the gallery. I love my 07 MCS, but all these BMW units are just that...UNITS. Computerized units at that. No comparison between these and the old ones. Totally different vehicles in all but the barest concepts.

 

Surfblue says: Call me old fashioned, but I prefer the kick in the *** all that tubo torque brings me from 1500 rpms on up over ANY kind of engine noise. The R56 could have an exhaust note like an EV and I wouldn't care as long as it DROVE like a demon. If I want singing, I turn on the stereo. BTW, I love all the Minis, but if you want to talk REAL, you need to go BACK to a MKI with sliding windows, ten inch wheels and exposed door hinges. I met a great guy the other day over in Sebastopol, driving his 2003 mcs which he had just bought with 41k miles...for $16k! Nice buy! I sat in that car, and immediately realized how much I LOVED the seats in my R56. We compared driving notes. He was blown away when I explained the engine differences, as we stood looking side to side at two very different powerplants (hoods up). He commented on the fact that his car required substantial time and revs to develop torque, as he was unaware of the engine change and the radical diff in the torque curve. Things change. Enjoy what you own and drive on.

 

This is great: let's have a discusion as to whether BMW should be worried about R56 sales -- but only contribute to it if you're an R53 lover/R56 hater, and your viewpoint agrees with the conclusion that the R56 is going to kill MINI . . . otherwise hang out in 2d gen forums. This is supposed to be a one-sided discussion where we talk about the greatness of the R53 and pat each other on the back in congratulations for our decision.
If we want an objective opinion, we'll first tell you what it is.
Surfblue - don't talk about exposed hinges on this thread - isn't there a forum for classic Mini nuts?