Seriously - who are you referring to? No one over 17 and with an IQ of over 60 should cares if someone's opinion is different, all we should care about is that someone can take the time to have a debate without name calling and having a hissy fit.

Look, back when the R56 was introduced, I drove one and started an thread with my review. Believe it or not, I did not pan the car. However, a bunch of hysterical cry-babies broke down and starting getting all hot and bothered that someone would criticize an aspect of their cars.

Since the R56 has been introduced, any time someone criticizes it, the first thing that gets brought up is what iteration Mini they own. I'm not going to speak for Slag, or ClubmanS or anyone else who was a current or past mini owner but WTF? I welcome differning points of view and I welcome a healthy debate.

Why I don't welcome is people who huff and puff, call people trolls, make personal attacks instead of addressing the topic at hand, and try to discredit people based on what car they own. What is even more absurd is someone getting so agitated that they threaten to put people on "ignore" who don't subscribe to their views.

All of you who can't stomach a healthy debate or who feel the need to start denying membership in certain areas based on what car you own should take step back a re-evaluate your priorities in life. Hint - your car is not the most important thing, and it's also not attached in any way to your ego.

 

Its times like these that I wish we had a stirring the pot emoticon, lol.

 

From this site;
http://www.autospectator.com/cars/bm...es-record-2007

Successful market launch: Over 2100 MINI Clubman sold already
The MINI is also continuing to enjoy a high level of demand worldwide. The number of vehicles delivered in the period to the end of November rose by 16.1% to 202,076 (prev.yr.: 174,082) vehicles. This means that as many MINI cars were sold in the first eleven months of the year as in the whole of the top-selling year 2005 (200,400 units). In November, 19,078 (prev.yr.: 13,402) vehicles were delivered to customers. Compared to the same month last year, this was an increase of 42.4%.
A new member of the MINI family successfully contributed to the further increase in MINI sales: The MINI Clubman has been available in Europe since 10 November and, as an individual shooting brake vehicle concept, has expanded the MINI model range to three versions. Even in its launch phase, this automobile has proved extraordinarily popular with customers. 2,142 buyers chose a MINI Clubman within the first few weeks. With the start of the model in the spring of 2008 in the sales markets in North America (16 February 2008) and Asia, the brand is expecting a clear rise in sales figures. In the first full sales year, 2008, every fifth MINI will probably be a Clubman.

Mark

 

Ya'll need to grow up and get a life. Do you realize how sophomoric this whole thing sounds. R53/R56--great automobiles. We should be so lucky to have the experience--enough already.

 

I'm all grown up and have a life ...wife, kids, house, cat, dog, small business, 401K ...the whole enchilda. Thank you.

I have experienced both cars and find them very different. Different enough that I would not buy one of them.

I do agree that we are lucky ...lucky to be able to make the choice as to which one we prefer ...buy it, drive it and talk about it.

Sophomoric would be not experiencing both cars and buying one based on someones else's say so.

 

All I know is the part of the whole MINI ownership is having a community that comes with the car that no other car brings...sure I could have bought some honda or gotten a new eclipse and had to race every other car that was of the same brand and get their dirty looks, but instead I wanted the car that puts a smile on my face, fun to drive, and connects with people that you wave to when you pass instead of thinking who has the best rims or loudest exhaust

Thats just my opinion

 

I bought my Mini BECAUSE of all the things you just mentioned as negative. I. Love. My. R56. Mini.

 

+1

Yeah its an amazing car and if you ask me I am a MINI enthusiast so BMW did not take away the enthusiast with the R56

 

My take on the sales figures is different from the opinions expressed so far. I think you have to focus on the total sales figures, and view it as a measure of overall demand for MINI. The vast majority of the public cannot distinguish between an R50/R53 and an R56. To them, a MINI is a MINI is a MINI (well, the Clubman looks different enough that this view will change slightly). I believe that each year, there is only a limited number of people interested in buying a MINI. and that number is relatively unaffected by R56 vs R53. Overall, interest in MINI remains high (2007 was the best year yet).

 

Exactly what the bean counting designers were betting on when they watered down the R56... When the original series was designed the driving enthusiast was centric... when the R56 was designed... the masses were the target... and it shows.

 

Except that many enthusiasts have switched to the R56 and love it. Just because it now rides like a BMW instead of an R53 it makes it a non-enthusiast car amirite?

 

IMO, more than just the "ride" was lost. Fake hood scoop, 4wd stance, pizza pie speedo, fish eye lights, and even the little touches, like an idiot light instead of a temperature gauge all contribute to an automobile design that has become a caricature of itself. BMW could have taken the R56 and sharpen and already timeless design, but instead took the R56 in a completely different direction. But as one poster pointed out, the masses can't tell one from another...

 

Well the fake hood scoop because they went to a turbo (and maybe they found other reasons to do it)...the headlights look amazing and make it much easier to mod since they arnt connected to the hood...that pizza size speedo is something that I love it is such a nice design and a great accent for the interior compared to that small one in the later models that just doesnt seem MINI...and personally I feel the overall interior of the R56 is more MINI than any other (no offense meant)....yeah the lack of a temp gauge for an idiot light was a bad move, but the temp gauge isnt enough anyway so I think many that really care are going to buy some sort of gauge pod or a scangauage to have that many others that are needed

And honestly...they did sharpen a timeless design...yes they broadened the aspect of people it attracts, but thats what every company must do...you cant expect them to produce the same car and expect them to stay in business just by what you define as the enthusiast...if the enthusiast just bought their 06, then they sure arnt going to by the 07 when theirs is still new....so they need to market to get more people interested and stay in business

 

Not to be read as off subject, but look at what has happened with the famous Mitsubishi EVO vs. Subaru STi war. Subaru has gone to the masses, the Evo has retained and refined its character (IMO). The subaru now looks just like any other car on the street, the EVO is an eye catcher, trend setting car.
Which company do you think was thinking "let's make this car just like pop radio, bland, easy to swalow, easy listening!"

I don't know about you, but I like to be as unique as I can within reason, and that is exactly why I have an R53. When I drive it I feel like my personality is reflected in a car as much as a car can, without having to put ridiculous fins or spinning rims or anything else!

conclusion: BMW followed the Subaru formula, and it was a mistake.

 

Maybe, but they lost some others along the way.

Dean.

 

They broadened the design for the masses... I can only imagine things like fake hoodscoops, pie sized speedo, 4wd stance and fish eyes are attractive artifacts to the masses.

 

Ah yes the famous R50/R53 temp. gauge.

Useful as the car warms up to normal operating temp. Useless in an overheating situation.

My 03 MC overheated because of a block heater leaking, which heats coolant in the engines water jacket. It is a MINI part, that was installed by the dealer. I was on the highway, a few minutes from home when it let go, the gauge went from normal to the top of the gauge in less than 10 seconds, then the "idiot" light came on and it started chiming at me. From what I have read since about it, thats how it works, works well up to normal temp. then does not respond well until the the engine is overheating So really just a glorified "idiot" light.



Mark

 

Have you driven either car? I'm guessing the answer is "no" because your comparison couldn't be farther from the truth.

You got it backwards. I have driven both and was an Evo 9 owner. The new Evo is a huge step towards the mainstream fro Mitsu and that has been their stated and oft quoted goal. The Evo got heavier and has drifted far from is homologated rally car roots. Subaru made the suspension a tad softer, but the car is still based on an actual rally car.

Mitsu also dumped one of the most celebrated engines in production (4G63) for an engine that is not only unproven but barely more powerful. The handling has been sharpened and the interior made a bit more livable but that's about it. In fact, the 0 - 60 and quarter miles times are much worse in the X. The car has been made to compete with the 335 and the A4 - not the rally car circuit. All the character of the past Evos has been purposefully erased..........the car has not been sharpened, it's been watered down.

Mitsu completely sold out to the masses with the X. Subie made a few concessions in that direction - but not to the same level as the Mitsu. The only thing that the X has in common with the previous Evos is the name. Pity. I'm regretting that I sold my 9 - I think that it will be regarded in the future as the "Last True Evo".

I have never been a fan of Subies, but after driving both cars, I'd take the 08 STI hands down over the X.

 

True, but from what I'm reading here, that " some " are out numbered by those that continue to follow the brand.

Mark

 

Saw this about worldwide sales and thought it might be of interest

 

http://www.motoringfile.com/2008/02/...3-for-january/

I still don't forsee a lot of concern at BMW.

It seems we agree, Skiploader. My sarcastic remark was directed at the comments in the previous page which seem to write off any discussion which questions the negative interpretation of sales data as merely comments from thin-skinned R56 owners who stuck their noses in the wrong forum -- which is particularly ironic since most of those who question the assertion that the R56 is a commercial failure appear to be R53 owners.

 

eager2own, I too have posted many links the show the same kind of numbers showing that MINI sales are up, and that people are enthused, which according to some does not make them "enthusiasts", about the car that seems to be selling in record numbers.

Mark

 

If the R56 is selling in record numbers that implies to me that they changed it enough to appeal to the masses and now more non-enthusiasts are finding the car acceptable.

Keep in mind, it wasn't the enthusiast segment that complained about the burble and got it taken away in the R56 and it wasn't the enthusiasts that complained about the ride of the R53 and got it softend up in the R56 ...it was the non-enthusiasts that bought the car because they thought it was cute and then found out it wasn't what they expected.

 

The R56 was Ämericanized".

 

We traded in our 2005 Mini convertable for a 2007 Cooper. We returned the 2007 Mini the next day and got our 2005 back. Next weekend bought a new 2006 Cooper and traded in the convertable.