We too are in agreement -- although I'll refrain from using the word "enthusiast" from my description (needless to say, in a forum which is run and read by people who feel very passionately about their cars, saying that someone is a non-enthusiast because they prefer another model is as much name-calling as calling them "idiots").
My response from the beginning has been to question the idea that BMW should or would listen to gripes like the ones being voiced in this forum. If sales are going up and car awards and prestige continue to accumulate, then there will not be any need to appease the self-proclaimed "enthusiasts".
For those that followed the transition from the E36 to the E46, you know the same arguments were made about the loss of BMW's soul (despite BMW's reinvigorated campaign as the Ultimate Driving Machine) -- to some extent the same happened in the E30 to E36 transition . . . but you know what? BMW has not taken the E90 in the direction of its earlier cars. . . and I don't expect them to do so with the R56.

This is all different if in fact MINI sales do decrease from the changes in the 2d gen. That's why I welcomed, and defended, the objective discusion of sales data that might reflect that. As some have questioned already, however, US sales data does not appear to show that the R56 is a commercial or marketing disaster sending BMW engineers back to the drawing board -- far from it, MINI is increasing worldwide sales. Despite what we'd like to think, the opinions of a minority of R53 owners does not serve as a true example of the buying public. Thus, I see BMW as continuing with its trend towards pushing the MINI brand toward the broader masses as it is doing with the R55 and will do with the R60.

Edit -- in the name of full disclosure, i should note that my personal preference is the same as slag's and reelsmith's and R50MINI's and many others: I prefer the 1st gen, and my R52 will not be traded for the R57. I've driven the R56 and found it to be too much like driving the E46 in my garage -- I do not want a mini-BMW, and that's what it felt like to me. There's a reason my wife and I fight over who gets to drive the MINI on any given day -- and it's not because of more comfortable seats. I, too, wish that MINI would not follow the E30-E36-E46-E90 progression, which it seems to be doing. I would consider the R57 with factory JCW kit, but that's far north of $40k for a MINI . . . so I may hold on to this until I can't get another single mile out of it. But there's a difference between my personal preference and where I think the bean-counters will take the brand -- bottom line is that sales and feedback from R56 owners indicate that this is not how the majority of the target customer base feels (they want the E90/R56 over the E30/R53).

 

What was wrong with the '07?

 

Remember what a killer car the Mustang was back in the 60s and how they started to mess it up in the early 70s, then altogether killed it in the 80s, began a return to its roots in the 90s and today it is a cool car again.

Maybe that will be the course of the MINI.

 

My post was addressing the interpretation of sales figures. I just don't see the sales plunge that you say there is.

 

Ummmmmmmm... the January 2008 R56 sales are down 20% from the R53 era average... just a continuation of the downward trend of the last 3 months of R56 sales. For a new model offering.. in the market less than a year... 20% is a huge plunge. For MINI, which enjoyed unheard of demand during the R53 era, it is a disaster

 

en·thu·si·ast /ɛnˈθuziˌæst, -ɪst/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[en-thoo-zee-ast, -ist] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation –noun 1.a person who is filled with enthusiasm for some principle, pursuit, etc.; a person of ardent zeal: a sports enthusiast. 2.a religious visionary or fanatic.
[Origin: 1600–10; < Gk enthousiasts one inspired, equiv. to enthousi- (see enthusiasm) + -astés, var. of -istés -ist after i]

—Synonyms 1. zealot, devotee, fan.


Dictionary.com Unabridged (v 1.1)
Based on the Random House Unabridged Dictionary, © Random House, Inc. 2006. American Heritage Dictionary - Cite This Source - Share This en·thu·si·ast (ěn-thōō'zē-āst') Pronunciation Key
n.

1. One who is filled with enthusiasm; one who is ardently absorbed in an interest or pursuit: a baseball enthusiast.
2. A zealot; a fanatic.

[Greek enthousiastēs, possessed person, from enthousiazein, to be inspired; see [FONT=arial,sans-serif][SIZE=-1] enthusiasm[/SIZE][/FONT].]

(Download Now or Buy the Book) The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition
Copyright © 2006 by Houghton Mifflin Company.
Published by Houghton Mifflin Company. All rights reserved. WordNet - Cite This Source - Share This enthusiast
noun1. an ardent and enthusiastic supporter of some person or activity 2. a person having a strong liking for something [syn: fancier]
WordNet® 3.0, © 2006 by Princeton University. Kernerman English Multilingual Dictionary (Beta Version) - Cite This Source - Share This
enˈthusiast noun
a person filled with enthusiasm
Example: a computer enthusiast

Sounds like a lot of MINI owners to me, that own either a classic Mini, or a first or second generation MINI.

Mark

 

.

Self-edit

 

I think we may be hearing from the "masses" about that statement

Mark

 

this thread is motoring nowhere very fast.

 

Here are some new numbers to chew on:

MINI success story continues
The MINI brand was able to increase its sales volume in January by 13.3% to 15,432 automobiles (prev.yr.: 13,618). The level of equipment provided and the product mix continue to be of a high quality: in January, 36% of customers went for the MINI Cooper, with 27% choosing the top model Cooper S, 23% selecting the Cooper D diesel option and 14% going for MINI One. In a comparison of body variants, the classic MINI comes in first, with 75% of sales, followed in second place by the new MINI Clubman with 16% of sales and then the Convertible with 9%. The market launch of the Clubman this month in the USA - the largest MINI market - will provide added momentum for MINI sales.

http://roadracingworld.com/news/article/?article=31363

 

In the article you posted... one in every four world wide MINI's sold in January were diesel. Are you considering the diesel a target of the driving enthusiast segment? Is that why R56 sales are down in the USA... because MINI doesn't offer the diesel as an option for "driving enthusiasts"? Once again.. we are talking about driving enthusiasts here... otherwise we could broaden the discussion to how the toyota tercel is outselling the MINI... but that is not really the point... unless one feels that is where the R56 now competes... with toyota.

 

The data reinforces the fact that MINI aggregate sales for all its variants are up with the 2d gen. Again, I don't think BMW would consider this a disastrous result sending them back to the drawing board . . . regardless of the labels we attach to anything that's not an enthusiast's R53 JCW or GP.

 

Did you forget to test drive the R56?

And why is it that because the car has a more comfortable ride that it all of a sudden isn't a driving enthusiasts car? Are BMWs not driving enthusiasts cars?

I gladly chose the R56 because of its more comfortable seats and ride than the R53. Why? Because its my daily driver and I do a lot of travel for work. And guess what? It handles just as well as my R53 did, you just don't have the same feeling of "connectedness" with the road. And I agree, that sucks, but it does handle just as well, as you all would find out if you had spent any time actually giving the R56 a chance.

And guess what else I got out of choosing to go with the R56. More power, better torque, and a hell of a lot better fuel efficiency. In the end, the R56 performs much better than the R53 did. How again is that pandering to the masses?

But lets bash it because it has a bigger speedometer, a fake hood scoop, a higher ride height to comply with regulations and a slightly different body shape. Yeah those are its defining qualities. How many of you were happy with your R53 at its stock ride height and how many of you have since altered its appearance to suit your tastes?

I think some of the contributors to this thread have completely lost sight of the big picture here and are ignoring many of the R56s qualities in order to harp on its few flaws. Why is this, and why again do we need multiple threads dedicated to this topic?

 

Which is why the bean counters have taken the R56 in a different direction... to the masses. Maybe BMW will move even closer to the toyota tercel market segment with the next release... and we will have a whole new set of tercel types telling us that the new R5x is the best thing since sliced bread. oh boy

 

But the engine appears to be truly a French Fryer.

 

^ ?
Which engine did you order for your R55?

 

VicSkimmer, welcome to the "Masses"

When slag1911 explains "driving enthusiast" and how that does not include owners and proponents of the 2nd gen of MINIs it will become clear to us huddled in a mass that even though world wide sales are up on the 2nd gens, and that out of the box they are quicker than an out of the box 1st gen, that we have nothing to say to this topic.

Nah, that won't be enough

Mark

 

The toyota tercel offers better fuel mileage and a "nicer" ride than the R53.. it does this without adding a tacky fake hood scoop, 4wd ride stance, or pizza pie speedo... and I bet that tercel is a "nice" daily driver. But it is not a car geared towards driving enthusiasts, and neither is the R56.

The R53 targeted a different market segment... the redesign of the R56 took MINI in a different direction... maybe this thread should have been titled "bring back a MINI model for the driving enthusiasts"...

 

Nope. I drove several.

My Accord gives me a comfortable ride. So does my Lexus. I wanted something different.

Some are, some aren't.

Yes, it does.

Performs much better? I think not. Better, yes. Much better, no. What does all that extra power and torque get you ...an extra half-second faster from zero-to-sixty? That's not much better ...that's nearly the same difference.

For me, the flaws greatly outweighed the advantages. Period. The few advantages (ever so slightly faster, better fuel economy) were not nearly enough to get me to purchase a car that I did not like the ride of or the looks of (in or out). If I want to spend a few bucks I can make my R53 go faster than an R56 ...but my car will remain forever stock ...its perfect as is.

I did my homework ...heck, I even ordered an R56 and waited months for it to arrive. While waiting I drove a few, spent a lot of time looking them over and ultimately decided it was the wrong car for me. Still is. Always will be.

This all boils down to opinion and you are just going to have to accept the fact that yours is not always going to be the same as everyone elses.

Dean.

 

The fries with onion rings version

 

Both are enthusiast's cars and both have superb driving characteristics...but they are different. So it's simply a matter of perference and that is all.

 

Which is great, and like I've said in the past many times before, they're both great cars, they're just different. I don't see one as being more of an enthusiasts car than the other, as they both have strengths that appeal to enthusiasts.

You're still missing the point. I understand that people like one better than the other. Thats not the issue I have. I have an issue with people who feel the need to bash the car because its different, period. I have an issue with trolls. When it comes down to it, there is animosity towards the R56 here, more than just an opinion that one is better than the other, and that does nothing to further a healthy debate.

 

Ding, ding, ding. I think we have a winner.

 

I have tried to choose my words carefully and not participate in any bashing. I am not a troll as I have been here since the beginning with the R56. Take a look on the Gen 2 forum at the thread called "Post Pictures of Your R56 Here". I started that thread a year ago when I was all excited about buying one. Most of the other folks posting in this thread have been around since then as well.

I think more than anything else its a sensitivity issue. You just have to not care what someone else thinks about your car.

Yes there is animosity towards the R56 here ...its not the evolutionary step some of us wanted the R53 to take.

 

Notice that I too chose my words carefully and did not call you a troll. If it came across that way then I'm sorry as that was not my intention.

I just don't see the need to have multiple threads dedicated to bashing the R56. Like you said, it is an evolutionary step, and you can't please everyone. For me? I loved my R53, but the R56 is much more practical. Not everyone needs a practical car though. That doesn't mean that we need to have threads dedicated to bashing the new model just because its different. Notice how you don't see any threads bashing the R53 even though the R56 is superior in many aspects (the degree of which can be debated).

At this point this thread is just entertainment value for me. I'm bored at work and this helps to pass the time.