Boost could come from the Clubman slag. If anything slag, the Clubman could prove to be a surprisingly good seller, eclipsing the R56.. R52 production is scheduled to end in November. When I see Ian's published sales data, it amazes me how the convertibles still sell fairly well, considering, they are based on the 1st gen cars and are still the most expensive MINIs in the lineup.

 

I suspect a lot of the strong sales for the convertible is folks turning to the last of the classic MINI's still available new. I'm not a convertible person... but would take one in a heartbeat over a R56!

Funny, but somehow the Clubman is much more appealing to me than the R56... I suspect it has an opportunity to pull MINI out of the nose dive the R56 has placed the brand in...

 

For what I have read, the Clubman rides and handles better than the R56. Have not driven it, so don't quote me on it. And while the Clubman is saddled with the R56 front end and interior, the thing looks so much better from the sides and the rear. It certainly has more of a R53 flavor...weird.

 

Just do your own search...it's easy. I have no interest in this frying pan, anyway, nor do I have any quarrel with 1st gen owners. I've said my piece and I stand by it. In any case, slag is right...time will tell. At this point I think I'll just enjoy my MINI like most on this board. Whoever wants to paint themselves into a corner on this is welcome to it.

btw, I too an very excited about the Clubman...it's a great addition!!!

 

I went and test drove an '08 S and I was still impressed by it. I still like the look of my '06 better, but many people are different. My friend was actually turned off by the '02-'06 Mini but he recently ordered an '08 because it suited him better.

 

In theory... the R56 should appeal to a greater number of people... as it is designed and targeted for the masses vs. the narrower driving enthusiast segment. The R56 was also designed to be cheaper and easier to produce, so BMW could keep up with consumer demand... a consistent problem for dealers during the R53 era. The R56 designers did remedy the consumer demand problem... but not quite in the way they envisioned.

 

Okay ...here's a pipe dream. Why not just continue to offer the R53 in the States (where the mods of the R56 to the front end are not needed to pass our laws) along with the R56 ...the supposedly more consumer friendly MINI.

Heck ...I bet enthusiats would even pay a few grand extra to get the car they preferred. I would.

Maybe they could even take it to the next level ...an R53i, so to speak ...and give enthusiasts some of the mods they add later as factory options.

Sorry ...just woke up and snapped out of it. Please ignore.

dean.

 

LOL so this is where you wandered off to after the thread in the general forum was closed.

If you see being called an internet troll as a personal attack, fine. I'm not the only one who can clearly see whose trying to stir the pot here. I find it humorous that you hide behind the forum rule of no personal attacks so nobody can call you out on your trolling attempts.

 

At this time... our best hope is that MINI is reading feedback such as this... and they take it into account for the next generation design. The disappointing sales must have their attention... we just need to let them know why!

 

Just went to the GBMINI site. I see a drop from 06 sales to 07 sales, then a rise in 08 sales, all for the month of January. The 08 Jan. numbers do not included Clubmans that have been ordered, but not delivered yet.

I wonder if the drop in 07 Jan. numbers are a result of first year jitters among potential buyers, I know I had them and waited for a late build 03.

Also from googling around auto sales sites reports are up and down for different auto makers, GM was up, higher end cars seem to be down, and in general auto sales were down in the U.S. for the month of January.

The whole thing seems to be tied to the U.S. economy in general, which is slowing. In Canada sales are up as the economy is strong.

Mark

 

The period from November 2006-February 2007 impacted both the R53 and the R56 sales numbers due to retooling at the factory. I suspect the YTY drop in January 07 R56 sales is due to this... nothing more. However the current decline starting in November 2007, December 2007 - January 2008 .. that is telling. MINI has never had either this level of sales performance or this downward sales trend during it's entire run. With the R56 in its first year, the trends should have been much stronger than its successor... but such is not the case. I guarantee that this sales performance and trend is getting those R56 bean counting designers plenty of attention from cooperate...

 

So a general drop in U.S. auto sales does not play into this at all? Nor the shrinking dollar against the Euro, nor the slow down in the economy?

Mark

 

VicSkimmr.. I guess you missed this earlier post from Mark in this thread...

If you have a comment to add that is relevant to this discussion.. great! But I would appreciate it if you would keep your personal attacks off this thread... and not get it tanked like the last one.

 

Further to my earlier post;
http://www.cnw.ca/fr/releases/archiv.../02/c7924.html
http://www.cbc.ca/cp/business/080130/b013029A.html
http://www.newswire.ca/en/releases/a.../01/c6502.html

Like I said Canada's economy is very strong.
Seems a tanking economy plays big in auto sales, not just model changes.

Mark

 

The R53 era was born into the post 9/11 world and the turmoil and economic uncertainty that followed... it had an appeal to a strong enthusiasts base... that cut through expense, logic and even reasoning.. the R53 instilled the "gotta have it!" emotions in potential owners... that is what made it a runway sales success. Obviously the R56 does not instill the same emotional charge in its potential owners... as reflected by its sales numbers.

 

To be honest, there's not really much to add is there? The original topic was that the OP felt that the R56 didn't look like his R53 and that people should take good care of their R53s. Thats great! Its an old and tired subject, but sure, lets have another thread about it, why not?

I'm sorry you view my posts as personal attacks, but thats not how I see it. If I see someone trolling the board looking to cause trouble, I feel that I should be able to point that out so that people see it for what it is and not get so riled up over it without the fear of having my posts moderated.

And, since I have not received a notice or a warning from Mark for the report you sent in about my post (and thank you so much for the PM just to let me know, it really meant a lot to me), I have to conclude that Mark feels the same way, until I am told otherwise.

In fact, I would so far to say that this rule:
May actually apply more to you than to myself. I guess time will tell. If my post is, in fact, considered a personal attack, then I apologize to whichever moderator has to take care of it as it was not my intention. Would it have been easier just to report your posts? Sure, but that just creates more work for the moderators when these things can usually be worked out between the community without moderator involvement.

 

If you truly feel that way... then please move on... so those of us having a discussion can keep this thread on topic and about automobiles...

 

More
http://www.cnn.com/2008/BUSINESS/01/....ap/index.html
http://auto.moldova.org/stiri/eng/74196/

Mark

 

I do find the discussion on comparative sales interesting -- especially since I may have instigated it with my comment about whether BMW cares about R53 owner's opinions when sales are up. . . . so I hope that topic can continue.

It would seem from the previous figures regarding US sales and from the numbers quoted in the articles posted by Mark (primarily the cnn piece) that MINI US sales were down in 2007 but worldwide sales were none-the-less much stronger. This would seem to indicate that the problem is only in the US -- whether economic or because the US has more "pure enthusiast" than the rest of the world -- but overall the decrease in US sales is more than made up for by increased aggregate sales everywhere else. . . . so I'm still not sure that BMW is worried about returning to the R53. Additionally, I bet BMW is hoping to recapture the "enthusiast" market with the upcoming factory JCW kit.

As to the back-and-forth going on in the previous several posts: I have no opinion on the matter, but may I suggest that you PM each other with such comments directed at one another? Hope this suggestion doesn't generate a bunch of "well, he started it" responses -- just keep on topic and save the rest for PMs

 

These numbers are from the GBMINI site.

Any statistical analysis needs to look at the big picture. Taking one data point (or even one small period of time) and trying to make a broad generalization makes for a nice item to post, but it doesn't make it correct.

FACT: Let's remove convertibles from the mix completely. Easy to do based on the data GBMINI has provided.

FACT: 2006 Sales of Cooper and Cooper S + GPs (not including either convertible) : 28,980

FACT: 2007 Sales of R56s only: 30,778

FACT: The R56 was only for sale for 11 of the 12 months of 2007.

FACT: You cannot say the plant changeover affected 2006 R53 sales, as December 06 sales are higher than december 05 sales.

FACT: Monthly average for non-convertibles in 06: 2415
FACT: Monthly average for R56s in 07: 2798

Based on these facts, one can safely assume that BMW is not worried about the R56 being a slow seller. They actually picked up 300 cars per month with the R56. The sky is falling!

Regarding the layoffs (of TEMPORARY workers). The new model is easier to manufacture, thus requiring fewer people working the lines. MINI is NOT reducing production of their vehicles, even though they are reducing headcount. This is just a standard manufacturing phenomenon, where improvements to the design of the product and equipment making it require less labor.

There is a lot of hyperbole in this thread about the R56 not being a good seller. The data doesn't bear that out. No amount of wishful thinking is going to change the data. In fact, it is so obvious that I would think a person would have to try really hard to twist that data to make it look better for the R53.

One last thing. The 'November - January numbers are low' arguement is a weak one.

I can pick SEVERAL three month sets over the course of R53 production that are lower than the monthly mean.

I love my R53. I think the R56 is a great car. I really want a factory R56 JCW.

I'm glad we all have MINIs to love. (well, not all of us. some of the most vocal anti-R56 folks don't seem to drive MINIs at all......)

 

i'm not sure I fully understand what this thread is about, nor do I get the title. "Save" the R53? What does that mean??

 

Well said BSUCardinalfan and eagar2own

My input was to help from a Reported post to get the thread back on course. Which has changed from the OP's original comments to sales figures.

Remember I'm not Mark Ferguson, I just sign off all my post this way,

Mark

 

There's nothing to discuss, I've accomplished what I set out to do in this thread.

My views on this topic have been stated in plenty of the other threads just like this one, that both cars have their pros and cons and the community as a whole should accept them both. For the most part, it has. There are just a few members remaining who, for some unknown reason, have a personal vendetta against the new model and continue to create threads like these that allow them to vent about how much they dislike the R56.

I'm sure there are multiple reasons why overall sales have dropped. I'm also fairly certain that the idea that "enthusiasts" have rejected the R56 is not a contributing factor. Why? Because we make up a minuscule amount of the population who have purchased MINIs.

 

Besides sales figures, this thread, and others like it, have the word "enthusiast" in them.
http://dictionary.reference.com/search?r=2&q=Enthusiast

Now I see in this definition words like zealot, ardent, devotee, strong liking.

So I guess that makes me an ardent zealot, with a strong liking for the MINI brand, and a devotee to ALL past, present, and future variants.

I own a slightly modded 03 MC. I have many years and lots of posts here on NAM. Because of the car and NAM, I met my wife, and moved to a different country. Both our MINIs are detailed regularly. Does this make me an enthusiast, maybe, but no more than someone who owns a MINI, puts gas in it, has it washed by a machine, does not own a computer to express to us the smile the little bugger puts on their face everytime they go for a motor.

Mark

 

I own and love my 05 R53. I looked at the ads for the 07 and then saw it at the dealership. HORRIBLE! They messed with perfection in my opinion... yes it has its kinks, but so what! it is well designed inside and out!
The new car looks so detroit it saddens me. Construction and repair costs changed the design as a salesman (and owner of an 07! told me).
Start inside, the drivers view: The speedo is bigger and now, instead of graciously bulging the dash, it breaks it! (one of its worst features). Then the controls, those *****? come on! Like someone said earlier, it started with a ferrari designer and ended with ford. OK, the seats are better. but that is it!
Outside: the lines have been butchered to death, the front looks silly, with the headlights poking out of a thin metal hood sheet. The classy rounded glass going all the way around the car is now broken, with plastic corner pieces! and areodynamic (according to the salesman) fins; what crap!
And what about the scoop... the scoop! it has no use whatsoever! it is fake, fake, fake. If you don't need it, don't use it and see what you have! What is it a ford mustang or a MINI?
Yes, the engine is more efficient and powerful; ... well what do you expect after 5 years on the US market, no improvements? Apparently not.
In a few years the 1st generation will be the one to have (for some it already is), just like many other brands talked about earlier. The 2002? it will hopefully re-encarnate in the 135i, which I am lusting over, but will not get... who wants a first try out?.... ME PLEASE! They will mess it up soon enough!