WHEW! The Motor Is Finally Apart!
WHEW! The Motor Is Finally Apart!
Finally got around to getting the motor in the mustang apart.
i worked for about 3 hours tonight trying to take it apart carefully, the intake was fighting me, i had to flip the motor and beat on the intake to get it to break loose.
other than that, for a 130k mile motor, it looks pretty good. i cant get the balancer off the crank, i think i need to try a gear puller tomorrow. i'm going to have my in house engine builder take a look at the short block tomorrow and see if he would recomend tearing it down further, or just going a head and doing a short block up rebuild.
well, here are a few of the many pictures i have....
i worked for about 3 hours tonight trying to take it apart carefully, the intake was fighting me, i had to flip the motor and beat on the intake to get it to break loose.
other than that, for a 130k mile motor, it looks pretty good. i cant get the balancer off the crank, i think i need to try a gear puller tomorrow. i'm going to have my in house engine builder take a look at the short block tomorrow and see if he would recomend tearing it down further, or just going a head and doing a short block up rebuild.
well, here are a few of the many pictures i have....
Cool! Love the size of the pistons!
Are you doing an exact same build up to code match the vin, or will you move up to a 4 barrel etc. An Al intake will save a bunch of weight, as will Al heads. With 130k on the motor, I'd take it the rest of the way down if you're modding for some more power. The 2V heads are actually better than the 4Vs on the cleavland, the 4Vs have wayyy to much runner volume for any low end torque at all. A nice port/polish on the heads you have will really wake the motor up. Heads on ford products pretty much suck from the factory...
I like having the V8 and the Mini. No matter how pumped the Mini is, it won't leave the never ending strips of rubber behind. Gotta love another member of the CCCCC (Coolest Cool Car Combo Club!)
Matt
I like having the V8 and the Mini. No matter how pumped the Mini is, it won't leave the never ending strips of rubber behind. Gotta love another member of the CCCCC (Coolest Cool Car Combo Club!)
Matt
5th Gear
Joined: Mar 2005
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Looking good! But don't use a gear puller on the balancer unless you intend to replace it--because it'll destroy it. Instead, use a harmonic balancer puller that threads into the pulley holes and pushes on the crank. Last time I took a V8 intake off I undid the bolts then used a hoist, and it lifted the entire front of the car off the ground! Good thing I hadn't pulled the engine out first.
yes, i found the proper puller in the toolbox the next day, what a royal PITA!!!
the motors is under the watchful eyes of my builder now, until then i gotta worry about that nast rot problem in the body!
the motors is under the watchful eyes of my builder now, until then i gotta worry about that nast rot problem in the body!
3rd Gear
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 257
Likes: 0
From: American Canyon, California
Wow, that looks like a cool project. Are those mach 1 graphics on the bottom? I also have a project 1967 Mustang Fastback that I plan on finishing some day. I am looking at either restoring it back to stock or building a Shelby GT500 Replica. Good luck with the rebuild.
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Two things to think about if you're not going for a historic recreation...
first one is EFI conversion. While there are plug and play kits for 302s and 289s, the 351 cleavland will probably need a modified carb manifold to do it (weld the injector bosses onto the runners). But if you do it, you'll get smoother power at all RPMs, easier starting, and much better gas milage (when I did a 289 4-barrel to 92 5.0 EFI out of a calif highway patrol car, my gas milage went from ~15 to about 23, with more power!).
The second one is a modern transmission. While the C6 is a fairly sturdy beast, and it can be made to take nearly infinite torque, there's no lock-up feature. The lock up helps tons with freeway driving and gas milage. If you want to keep the C6, there are overdrive units that go on the back. You'll need some cash, and a custom driveshaft.
I went way restomod with mine. With it, I was expecting the better power, but the other surprises that I didn't expect.
4 wheel disk brakes. What a world of difference. The low-buck way is Granada front spindles, (65 kits are expensive with original parts), and the licoln rear end can be had that pretty much drops in for the rears, but it's heavy. The next is from Stainless Steel Brake. It's more, but will work with your existing spindles and rear axle. If you really want the car to stick to the road (more later), go with the GR-350 suspesnsion set up (link in my sig), and then you can use modern 8.8" rear end (lighter and less expensive) and go with modern Ford equipment. I'm running stuff from the 90s cobra mustangs.
5th gear. Running 1700-1800 RPM at freeway speeds (0.63 drive ratio in 5th), even though I went from a 3.00 rear end with shot clutch packs to 3.55s traction loc set up.
Super stick existing turns. The Griggs set up uses coil overs, a torque arm, and panhard bar (or Watts link) and lower control arms to locate the rear axle. I can exit turns with power in ways that would have had me fish-tailing all over the place. A friend with a modern mustang calls this the Griggs Grip!
Anyway, the EFI, tranny and brakes will turn your steed into a more reliable, safer daily driver. But you sure won't be concours correct. If your planning on a daily driver, but don't want to hassle with the EFI and tranny, definintely check out the SSB disc brake conversions. The early Mustangs were known for speeding up, but you could only slow down once or twice before serious fade sets it.
Whatever you do, it will be a real nice car.... (when finished...)
Matt
The second one is a modern transmission. While the C6 is a fairly sturdy beast, and it can be made to take nearly infinite torque, there's no lock-up feature. The lock up helps tons with freeway driving and gas milage. If you want to keep the C6, there are overdrive units that go on the back. You'll need some cash, and a custom driveshaft.
I went way restomod with mine. With it, I was expecting the better power, but the other surprises that I didn't expect.
4 wheel disk brakes. What a world of difference. The low-buck way is Granada front spindles, (65 kits are expensive with original parts), and the licoln rear end can be had that pretty much drops in for the rears, but it's heavy. The next is from Stainless Steel Brake. It's more, but will work with your existing spindles and rear axle. If you really want the car to stick to the road (more later), go with the GR-350 suspesnsion set up (link in my sig), and then you can use modern 8.8" rear end (lighter and less expensive) and go with modern Ford equipment. I'm running stuff from the 90s cobra mustangs.
5th gear. Running 1700-1800 RPM at freeway speeds (0.63 drive ratio in 5th), even though I went from a 3.00 rear end with shot clutch packs to 3.55s traction loc set up.
Super stick existing turns. The Griggs set up uses coil overs, a torque arm, and panhard bar (or Watts link) and lower control arms to locate the rear axle. I can exit turns with power in ways that would have had me fish-tailing all over the place. A friend with a modern mustang calls this the Griggs Grip!
Anyway, the EFI, tranny and brakes will turn your steed into a more reliable, safer daily driver. But you sure won't be concours correct. If your planning on a daily driver, but don't want to hassle with the EFI and tranny, definintely check out the SSB disc brake conversions. The early Mustangs were known for speeding up, but you could only slow down once or twice before serious fade sets it.
Whatever you do, it will be a real nice car.... (when finished...)
Matt
man, that was a novel!
Well, i'm not too sure about EFI, as i really dont wanna add any unnecessary computer crap if i dont have to!
I already have chosen my C6, B&M sells a very beefy street/strip replacement. its much lighter and is just a heavier duty tranny all around. my dad has one of their 727's in his charger and he can launch it at 3500-4k all day long with no problems. and thats on a 550 horse motor!
it already has the mach 1 disk brakes, but i was looking into the larger 11 1/2 inch (i think) truck brakes that will bolt right up to any 9 inch.
as far as the suspension goes, you have to remember, the 71-73 had a much more advanced rear end setup and even an improved front suspension over the early cars. most of the improvements started around 69 with the boss cars, then by 73, most of the boss suspension was almost the same as what came on any 73 mustang.
right now, from the outside, id like the car to look pretty stock.
all the horsepower in the motor is going to be made internally (via a stroker kit, aussie heads and a trick aluminum 4bbl intake) i'm looking into having the manifolds honed to flow a bit better, and keep a stock appearance.
well, only time will tell....
Well, i'm not too sure about EFI, as i really dont wanna add any unnecessary computer crap if i dont have to!
I already have chosen my C6, B&M sells a very beefy street/strip replacement. its much lighter and is just a heavier duty tranny all around. my dad has one of their 727's in his charger and he can launch it at 3500-4k all day long with no problems. and thats on a 550 horse motor!
it already has the mach 1 disk brakes, but i was looking into the larger 11 1/2 inch (i think) truck brakes that will bolt right up to any 9 inch.
as far as the suspension goes, you have to remember, the 71-73 had a much more advanced rear end setup and even an improved front suspension over the early cars. most of the improvements started around 69 with the boss cars, then by 73, most of the boss suspension was almost the same as what came on any 73 mustang.
right now, from the outside, id like the car to look pretty stock.
all the horsepower in the motor is going to be made internally (via a stroker kit, aussie heads and a trick aluminum 4bbl intake) i'm looking into having the manifolds honed to flow a bit better, and keep a stock appearance.
well, only time will tell....
Move up to a 4 barrel.....
and you'll get to use all the other parts of the drive train. Sounds like you have a good plan there!
A 71 suspension may be more advanced than a 65, but it's still pretty stone age. There's still alot you can do to improve it. Also, while your doing you work, look into frame stiffening. The car is a unibody, and an old one at that. The shock towers should be stiffened, and there's stuff you can do around the torque boxes and the frame rails. I'll see if I can find some references for you. If you're gonna do 1/4 miles, you'll twist the crap out of the car and age it quickly. Sad to do after you do all the work to make it better.
When you go up to rear disks, check into a different master cylinder, as the amount of fluid needed to actuate the rear calipers will be different than the drums. A proportioning valve will also be helpful in setting the front rear bias. Brakes are something you should make as good as you can, as your life (and others) depends on them....
Whatcha planning to do with yours when it's done? Mine is a daily driver, and I just took it on the track last month. I agree about the stock look. Even though mine is heavily modded, the only visual clues that it's not a pure 65 are
1) Nardi steering wheel.
2) High back modern buckets, but upholstered with a 65 pony interior kit.
3) 17" five spoke wheels from the Bullitt mustang with 235-45ZR17 tires.
4) Rear disk brakes.
5) 5-speed logo on the que ball shift **** (check Moderndriveline.com for trans conversions, anyone say six speed?)
6) modern 5.0 badges where the Mustang tri-bars went on the front fenders.
And recently so I could go on the track, a 4 point roll bar. So this last one isn't to stealthy, but it's needed for track work.
Matt
A 71 suspension may be more advanced than a 65, but it's still pretty stone age. There's still alot you can do to improve it. Also, while your doing you work, look into frame stiffening. The car is a unibody, and an old one at that. The shock towers should be stiffened, and there's stuff you can do around the torque boxes and the frame rails. I'll see if I can find some references for you. If you're gonna do 1/4 miles, you'll twist the crap out of the car and age it quickly. Sad to do after you do all the work to make it better.
When you go up to rear disks, check into a different master cylinder, as the amount of fluid needed to actuate the rear calipers will be different than the drums. A proportioning valve will also be helpful in setting the front rear bias. Brakes are something you should make as good as you can, as your life (and others) depends on them....
Whatcha planning to do with yours when it's done? Mine is a daily driver, and I just took it on the track last month. I agree about the stock look. Even though mine is heavily modded, the only visual clues that it's not a pure 65 are
1) Nardi steering wheel.
2) High back modern buckets, but upholstered with a 65 pony interior kit.
3) 17" five spoke wheels from the Bullitt mustang with 235-45ZR17 tires.
4) Rear disk brakes.
5) 5-speed logo on the que ball shift **** (check Moderndriveline.com for trans conversions, anyone say six speed?)
6) modern 5.0 badges where the Mustang tri-bars went on the front fenders.
And recently so I could go on the track, a 4 point roll bar. So this last one isn't to stealthy, but it's needed for track work.
Matt
Originally Posted by Dr Obnxs
and you'll get to use all the other parts of the drive train. Sounds like you have a good plan there!
Originally Posted by Dr Obnxs
Also, while your doing you work, look into frame stiffening. The car is a unibody, and an old one at that. The shock towers should be stiffened, and there's stuff you can do around the torque boxes and the frame rails. I'll see if I can find some references for you. If you're gonna do 1/4 miles, you'll twist the crap out of the car and age it quickly. Sad to do after you do all the work to make it better.
4 point export brace, i found one thats stapmed instead of tubular to make it looks factory, along with a cross brace directly bewtween each shock tower.
also, comp engineering frame ties with an X over
Originally Posted by Dr Obnxs
When you go up to rear disks, check into a different master cylinder, as the amount of fluid needed to actuate the rear calipers will be different than the drums. A proportioning valve will also be helpful in setting the front rear bias. Brakes are something you should make as good as you can, as your life (and others) depends on them....
Originally Posted by Dr Obnxs
Whatcha planning to do with yours when it's done? Mine is a daily driver, and I just took it on the track last month. I agree about the stock look.
this mustang was my first car, i was just able to buy it back from the last owner who just let it sit. i'm still undecided wether or not i will sell it after its first show season for my REAL dream car, an 81 Delorean, or hold onto it, since it is my first car, and i'm only going to have one of those.
Hold onto it, since it was your first.
You'll always be able to buy another Mustang, but it will never be the first car you owned. A friend of mine got his first car (also the one he was taught to drive in) and did a nice job with it. He would have kept it forever, but it was stolen and wrecked real bad. The carcas was just too far gone. All the cars he's had since don't have that special bond, no matter how many knuckles he skins on the restoration....
Matt
ps, you'll never belive the number of people that I meet that reminisc about the Mustang of thier youth, and how much they regret getting it. In 15-20 years, you can switch it over to a hybrid drivetrain, and keep driving it for another 30-40 years!
Matt
ps, you'll never belive the number of people that I meet that reminisc about the Mustang of thier youth, and how much they regret getting it. In 15-20 years, you can switch it over to a hybrid drivetrain, and keep driving it for another 30-40 years!
Some usefull articles in Mustangs and Fords
or Mustang Monthly, can't remember which. There's a bunch of stuff on hidden power adders (look stock, runs like stink!) and some mention of stuff to do for Clevelands. Also mentions a company that makes rebuild kits for Clevelands.....
For what it's worth....
Matt
For what it's worth....
Matt
yeah, ive been looking into the options for my cleveland.
for some reason, it doesnt seem like lots of people build mid-blocks for power....
i found an edlebrock intake that i can use, i can grind off the logos and number, re-sandblast it and paint it blue to give it the factory appearance i want. and its aluminum, so that helps quite a bit.
also, my motor guy is gonna take the motor apart and put it back together with me, and do it for free! hes such a nice guy, i even offered him money to help the dissasembly, but he says he wont take anything till we start modding it.
i'm still working on getting the thing apart to sandblast... i dont know if i want to do it myself with my sandblaster, or just spend 500 bucks and have it done somewhere and touch it up with my sandblaster....
id like to have it stripped to the bare body before the end of the month, and in epoxy ready to start bodywork for this winter...... its starting to look more like a challenge than i had first expected. time to cut back on MCS funding mooney!
for some reason, it doesnt seem like lots of people build mid-blocks for power....
i found an edlebrock intake that i can use, i can grind off the logos and number, re-sandblast it and paint it blue to give it the factory appearance i want. and its aluminum, so that helps quite a bit.
also, my motor guy is gonna take the motor apart and put it back together with me, and do it for free! hes such a nice guy, i even offered him money to help the dissasembly, but he says he wont take anything till we start modding it.
i'm still working on getting the thing apart to sandblast... i dont know if i want to do it myself with my sandblaster, or just spend 500 bucks and have it done somewhere and touch it up with my sandblaster....
id like to have it stripped to the bare body before the end of the month, and in epoxy ready to start bodywork for this winter...... its starting to look more like a challenge than i had first expected. time to cut back on MCS funding mooney!
Cleveland motor info...
November 2005 Mustangs and Fords...
"Credible Cleveland" builds a 319 HP motor with pretty much good build techniques, a roller cam, and 2V heads. Your aussie heads should get more.
November 2005 Mustang Monthly
"How-To: Make Hidden Horsepower" list several engine builders that sell Cleveland power parts. This article even talks about stroking the motor to something like 427 ci!
Also, seems like Edelbrock is selling a Cleveland head. If it's Al, it might be worth the money....
Matt
"Credible Cleveland" builds a 319 HP motor with pretty much good build techniques, a roller cam, and 2V heads. Your aussie heads should get more.
November 2005 Mustang Monthly
"How-To: Make Hidden Horsepower" list several engine builders that sell Cleveland power parts. This article even talks about stroking the motor to something like 427 ci!
Also, seems like Edelbrock is selling a Cleveland head. If it's Al, it might be worth the money....
Matt
6th Gear
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 1,470
Likes: 0
From: Birmingham, AL
Originally Posted by armandCooperS04
Wow, that looks like a cool project. Are those mach 1 graphics on the bottom? I also have a project 1967 Mustang Fastback that I plan on finishing some day. I am looking at either restoring it back to stock or building a Shelby GT500 Replica. Good luck with the rebuild.
well, its time to start ordering back issues!
well, the car is going to be rear-end-less tomorrow. i'm hoping to make up a few jackstands with rollers to set the back of the body on...
i really need to get this thing rolling into the bodywork if i ever want to see it done for this spring!
I'll post pics if i get much further...
well, the car is going to be rear-end-less tomorrow. i'm hoping to make up a few jackstands with rollers to set the back of the body on...
i really need to get this thing rolling into the bodywork if i ever want to see it done for this spring!
I'll post pics if i get much further...
Geez, other Mustang people!!
Hi,
Just came across this thread and found other Mustang folks. I have a 66 High Performance, totally restored to stock, all original. I bought it in '97 and finished the body work up in 2003. Just had the engine rebuilt, went with
Tri-Y's, roller tip rockers, 30 over etc. The car already had a high-rise aluminum intake. The original Autolite 4100 was rebuilt by Pony Carbs. I had the engine dyno done with with the drive belt hooked up to the alt and she put out 305.9 hp. I did the front end drop like the Shelby GT350, Koni's on the 4 corners, Shelby Pitman, Idler arms and fron sway bar. The rear leaf springs are 5 leaf mid-eye. Also bought a set of 15x7 Torque Thrust D's. I'll post a few pics soon. Great to see other Mustanger's out here.
Chuck
P.S. Just posted a few pics in my gallery
Just came across this thread and found other Mustang folks. I have a 66 High Performance, totally restored to stock, all original. I bought it in '97 and finished the body work up in 2003. Just had the engine rebuilt, went with
Tri-Y's, roller tip rockers, 30 over etc. The car already had a high-rise aluminum intake. The original Autolite 4100 was rebuilt by Pony Carbs. I had the engine dyno done with with the drive belt hooked up to the alt and she put out 305.9 hp. I did the front end drop like the Shelby GT350, Koni's on the 4 corners, Shelby Pitman, Idler arms and fron sway bar. The rear leaf springs are 5 leaf mid-eye. Also bought a set of 15x7 Torque Thrust D's. I'll post a few pics soon. Great to see other Mustanger's out here.
Chuck
P.S. Just posted a few pics in my gallery
It is a slow process, especially dealing with the rust issue. After I took mine apart and had the paint blasted off, I found more body issues to deal with. Thanks to some friends and an excellent restoration shop, I was able to get thru something I never dreamed I could do. It was an experience, fun, lots of cursing, blood and sore muscles. Good luck, if I can help in any way, let me know.
Chuck
Chuck
bodywork starts tomorrow, my body guy is working for us every day now, so i get to use him for a few weeks. i really dont feel like doing any more bodywork, lol.
i'll post pics as it goes along!
i'll post pics as it goes along!
yay, just got word, my dad is geting me an early xmas present!
hes having my short block sent out to the machine shop along with one of his 440's! i guess he said i can have the bottome end worked however i please, but i get to take care of the heads! he said he really wants to see the car driving this spring, and this should help!!!!
can anyone say 427 stroker? 
hes having my short block sent out to the machine shop along with one of his 440's! i guess he said i can have the bottome end worked however i please, but i get to take care of the heads! he said he really wants to see the car driving this spring, and this should help!!!!
can anyone say 427 stroker?