In my 02 MC, I used the Schroth Quick Fit 4-point harness for track days. I hear that Schroth may or may not have something ready by the end of the year.

Anyone found any comparable replacements?

BTW, I'm selling my set in the marketplace if anyone is interested.

 

not exactly comparable but I picked up a CG lock. It holds waist down in place while allowing upper body movement. While I am sure you are looking into a full harness for track days, this may be worth looking into.

 

How well does the CG lock work? Any problem with slipping? I was looking into getting one and wanted a customer review.

 

The schroth harness will fit in the R56 with some slight modifications. I have one in my R56. All you have to do is shave some of the black plastic off of the piece that goes into the driver side buckle. It does not hurt the harness structure at all. Here are a few pics...

 

mounting the harness through the headrest isnt very safe. it could actually hurt you more than protect you. harnesses should be used with either harness bars/roll cages/roll bars with a harness bar

 

Hmm....never heard that one before....this is the only street legal harness out there, and the only one I have ever seen being used in autocross with the MINI's....no one has ever told me that before

 

harnesses at the shoulders are typically very short due to the event of actually rolling the car over, god forbid that ever happen to any of us, the distance you travel while rolling over is minimized. thus keeping you planted in the seats and keeping your head away from the roof or anything else your head could fly into.

im not sure of the actual rules if you were to enter in an HPDE or any other events. i will try to look into it for yah though.

motor safely

 

So if you don't want to put a harness/roll bar in your car, what do you suggest? I don't think Schroth would sell these if they weren't safe. As a matter of fact, the instructions say that they should go between the headrest supports.

From the Schroth instructions:



Now you tell me! I just sold my harnesses.

Can you show me a close up of the mod?

 

wow im very surprised in the way that mounts. i guess if schroth says to do it that way, then i guess you should. i read one of the manuals, some of the info is a lil conflicting though

 

i would guess in a roll-over you'd be safer with the straps between the posts so you wouldn't slip out of the seat... the belts won't spread apart.

A harness with a proper roll cage is probaby much safer but there aren't many of us who are going to race prep our car for 4 or 5 track days a year.

EDIT: That diagram shows a harness bar and I wouldn't make a blanket statement about all harnesses. I'm sure there are different specs and instructions for difference harnesses. If it's good enough for Robert Kubica it's good enough for me!

 

thats very true stlmini. just makin sure everybody plays it safe, especially when it comes to safety

 

Ok, here are a few pics of the harness after it was modified...the pics are not the greatest, but hopefully you can see the mod.
If you don't take off some of the black plastic on this piece, it will only go this far into the buckle.This is after the plastic was shaved off.

You have to shave off the plastic down to here....If you can see where my finger is...that is the area where you need to shave off the plastic, then it clips right into the buckle. Like I said, it does not harm the structure of the harness at all, you're just trimming off a few mm's of plastic. Hope this helps you!

 

First of all, I'm not bashing the Schroth harness - I use one when I autocross, and like it a lot.

But, the recommended routing of the harness straps is far from optimal. the problem is that the rear attachment points are so much lower than your shoulders. When the rear attachment points are that low, what happens in case of a frontal collision is that the tension in the straps exerts a *huge* downward force on the seatback. The seatback isn't designed for those kind of forces, and can collapse, meaning that the big downward force will now be on your collarbones. I'm sure you can see where *that* could lead.
Ideally, the portion of the straps that are behind you should be as close to horizontal as possible, so that tension on the straps doesn't exert any downward force on the seat or your body, but unless you have a roll bar or cage with a lateral bar for attaching the straps to, that can be hard to arrange.

In short, I love the way the Schroth holds me in place, but I don't know how much I'd trust it in a collision.

 

I like the CG lock alot. as long as you tighten the key well i have had no problem with slipping. get in pull tight, give it some slack when you take it off and repeat. It is really nice being able shift smoothly even in a turn where the G force would otherwise make it a bit of a chore. O and it is surprisingly comfortable for daily driving. No track days with it yet.

 

If you would do a little research you would find that the MINI is one of very few cars that the seats are designed to withstand the loads imposed by the harness. There should be no additional forces applied in a way to cause injury to the spine if installed properly.

 

Do you have any citations on this? I can't find anything regarding the axial load limits for the seatbacks, and I can't understand why Mini would specifically design them with those loads in mind, considering that the factory seatbelts don't put any axial loads on the seatback at all. Unless you're saying that MINI designed the seats to be used with the Schroth harness?

 

Just this from their site http://www.hmsmotorsport.com/store/s.../quick-fit-pro

States that it was designed to be used on seats that have passed a seat back strength test.

 

Well, I'd like to see the details of the test, but that does make me feel a lot better about using the Schroth harness when I autocross. I especially liked the crash video of the VW golf showing the harness in action.

 

Actualy, a harness on a car without a 6 point is agument many have.

First from experience you never want to mount the rear of a harness to the rear sheet metal, like photoed above. The main reason for this is that if in a collision, even getting rear ended the straps can get tighter and break your collor bones or worse, i have seen this happen. Mounting to a roll hoop is the correct way, the roll hoop should be bolted or welded with mounting plates to the floor pan.

Second, during a roll over the A pillars can get collapsed. When this happens it is possible for them to crush you in the seat if you can not move away. Tri-point harness that come stock with the vechile allows for this movment of the occupant during this deformation and is perfered. If you have a 6 point cage with A pillar support your harness will heep you very safe. I have seen photos from accidents with large A pillar collape and the people with harnesses are luky they can walk again.

I use to be an instructor and do alot of time trials, unless it had a cage i use the stock belt with a CG lock and a trick to lock the factory shoulder harness really tight.

 

I'm confused as to what photo you were referring to about the harness being attached to the sheet metal. The schroth harness bolts into the existing seatbelt bolts...so if the harness isn't safe in an accident, then I assume that means the factory seatbelts aren't either?

 

The rear seat betls are bolted to the rear floor ban, if that ban is deformed it will pull on your shoulder straps on your setup. That is one reason race harnesses require a specific angle on the shoulder straps, about 15 degrees max. your angle is much greater then will cause any little deflection a large about of force on your shoulders.

Your assumption is wrong, the factory rear seat belts are desgined properly but if there was deformation they would pull on your hips, the shoulder strap in he rear slides.The have short angles and give in the shoudlers system.

There is alot of literature on this, but you can do what you what it is your car.

 

I too use the trick to "lock" the belt in place, but I find I can not rely on it to stay locked 100% of the time. Just a bit too much movement in the seats cushioning.

There are certainly some drawbacks to any aftermarket harness design. I myself don't like the CG lock because it can make getting out of the car quickly a bit tricky because the lower belt is too tight to release it easily. And I didn't like the feel of my upper body not being restrained.

For the AutoX and the occasional trackday, the Schroth harness is the best option for an over the shoulder harness.

 

How do you mean it is too tight to release easily? you can release it from its holster with the button just like the stock belt. and there is the lever on the side to release the grasp it has on the belt, but I do agree that it does feel a little strange to have full range of motion in the upper body

 

I just meant that because the lap belt is so tight the button is a bit harder to release. I like my belts tight ! LOL

 

I might be able to add something to this thread on the Schroth harnesses. I used them for BMW CCA drivers' schools in my 06 JCW. At the end of June, at a track in the mid-west, I wrecked the car in a nasty high speed crash and roll over. The car ended up on its roof and both my instructor and I walked away. The belts were installed as instructed and passed safety inspections. We were pinned solidly to the seats and neither of us were touched by the front airbags (except my hands on the steering wheel). The car was totalled and, as far as I am concerned, the harnesses protected us just the way one would want. The A pillars were pushed back a bit, the roof caved in over our heads above the side windows a bit, but we crawled out after unlatching from the harnesses. The strength of the MINI body shell and the belts were what I credit to walking away.

If you are one of those that needs pictures, then a search of the Michigan MINI site for "Paul's crash" will find a photo or two.

I will not venture out on track again without at least 4 point belts. I am currently waiting for Schroth to certify the 07 R56 seats as being able to take the stress of their belts. As soon as they do, I will have a set of Schroth belts for next year.


Paul